Took the car in because of a scrubbing / brushing sound from the engine

I'm posting in case someone else has the same issue as me - or maybe this is well documented and I have just missed it.

My 2015 makes a brushing/scrubbing sound noticeably during cold starts and all the time too but less noticeably. I have some guesses (belt or belt driven?) for what might be the cause but all would require some investigating so I figured since the car is under warranty I'll let them tell me.

The chain of events are: first thing in the morning the car starts normal, and within 2ish seconds the engine starts making a brushing noise. It stays the same with a/c on or off and in or out of gear, and really isn't something you hear when inside the car. After a short trip the sound is almost gone, but since I know what to listen for I can hear it still being there.

Anyone else experience this?

Is this something that just started? You are positive it was not there before? Like maybe the DEF pump is making a noise it was not doing before?

We've had this car 3 months and it's been making the noise since we got it.

Where is the DEF pump? The noise is coming from the engine compartment and really does sound like it is belt driven.

I don't have another EA288 to compare it to but did have and EA188 and it didn't make this noise at all.

So it is very possible that this is indeed normal, yes? I mean I do not know what it is, and maybe some other 2015 owners can chime in here, but I do know the SCR makes a normal buzzing sound if you listen close as it purges the DEF from the lines, and in the 2015s, the injector is up high near the firewall.

Yes, I've experienced this since I bought the car earlier this year with ~47k miles. Hear it every time I start the car. It is a rotational brushing sound as the OP has described. Did you take it into the dealer? What did they say? My best guess is that it's something belt related, or flywheel related. Keep us posted

Its completely possible that it is normal, but I brought it in because I don't feel like it is normal. I did test drive one other 2015 and I didn't notice this type of noise there but didn't immediately on mine either, but I did notice it rather quickly, and now I know what to listen for...

When the engine has been running just a few minutes the noise is at a level where I could see it being something called normal, but the amount of scrubbing sound I hear at a cold start is overpowering to the regular clatter. Also, the scrubbing has a rhythm to it that is similar to how a belt can squeak.

The car is at the dealer as we speak but I have low expectations already. I made sure to point out that its loudest during the first cold start and brought the car in last night to make sure they had that first start to capture (and told them I would do that so they could capture a 100% repeatable cold start), their service writer went and drove the car to move it without having anyone listen :\

If you just drove it to the dealers, it would have been a waste of time to listen for a sound that only occurs when the car is stone cold. Most likely they will listen for the sound on the first start in the morning if they kept it overnight.

When I set the appointment I told the writer specifically that while it makes the noise all the time, it is the loudest first start of the day, and because of that, I was going to bring the car in the night before for a morning appointment.

If a porter moves the car around and leaves it running it defeats the purpose.

The car is there overnight again so maybe they will do better tomorrow.

So far the dealer was not able to check the car this morning, I have my fingers crossed that they get to it.

Just as a check, is the cabin fan and A/C totally turned off? Trying to eliminate possible other causes. Is your battery new? Could it be the alternator kicking in hard after starting?

Another day passed and the dealer was not able to get the car, I have no idea why they even take appointments.
@Mike_in_Anchorage Yes, A/C and cabin fan totally off (as well as on) noise doesn't change at all unless the idle speed changes.

Any update on this? Curious as my car does this as well

I believe this is simply noise generated from the alternator or a/c as mentioned above as a possibility. Something definitely in the serp belt path. My car has done it since new and no SCR (so rules that out). 75k miles and I'm not worried about it.

I have an unuseful update. The car is currently staying at the dealer waiting for the field rep. The car spent 3 days at dealer #1 where it was brought in for an appointment. THey never got to it and wouldn't tell me when they would be able to - ridiculous. I picked it up and called and set an appointment at another dealer less close to home. They have availability to have it in the next day.

Now at dealer #2 they had the car overnight and were able to hear the noise. The problem is they have no idea what is making it. They took off the serpentine belt and the car still makes the noise, ruling out the a/c or alternator.
After the conversation with the service writer degraded I spoke with the service manager who heard the noise but doesn't know what to do. He said they don't feel comfortable taking the engine apart trying to find a broken part and would rather I drive the car some more until it breaks or makes the noise much more. He also suggested I call VW so I did and a field engineer is supposed to check out the situation Monday. Instead of picking up the car I left it there.

I'm confident that noise isn't normal, and due to the way the noise is loudest when the car is cold started and much less as it warms up is making me want to take a look at the waterpump. That would require taking the timing cover off, not something super difficult to do. Alternatively, I would like to troubleshoot by powering the solenoid in/for the waterpump and just listen to see if the sound reproduces. Seems simple enough to me.

Apparently dealer replacement water pumps are now conventional, non-variable flow (i.e., no solenoid-controlled impeller shroud). IDParts also stocks these in Geba.

I wonder if the shrouds are deforming and contacting the impeller or if the bearings are going, causing excessive radial runout in the impeller which then contacts the shroud. I would guess the latter considering that we are now seeing reports of leaking pumps. I'm surprised there isn't a TSB on this if its true that dealer replacement pumps are non-variable.

I hear the same sound during startup on my 2015 Golf TDI. Very interested in hearing about what the dealer tells you.

I have owned three Mk7 platforms. They all exhibited a brushing sound during startup for a few seconds, '15 TDI, '16 GTI, '17 GTI.

Mine makes the noise for several minutes after a cold start before quieting down and still making the noise but not loudly. I'm optimistic that the field engineer will have some news for me.

If it was the water pump and solenoid, I wonder if you could disconnect the electrical/VCDS output test and see if the noise goes away under cold start.

Very interesting troubleshooting ahead, at least you have it documented with VWoA.

Any update on this?


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After talking to the field rep they asked me to take the car to another dealer, with a technician that is more familiar with TDI's. There really are not many TDI on the roads in my area. I have gotten used to the scrubbing noise and it's still there, not really changed. Goes to the dealer next week.

The car currently sits at the dealer where the tech can hear the sound but hasn't figured it out yet!

I have a few minutes today and was sharing the full details with dealer #3 so they could benefit from what was already done on the car.

Its much colder now and I don't think the noise is any louder, I still hear it when the car starts in the morning. Over the last two months, the noise seems to have changed just a touch with some added metallic chirp.

When I first brought the car in for the noise we had driven the car 1000 miles. During this time I checked the oil once or twice and it appeared normal. I say this because dealer #2 first told me that the timing tensioner was making the noise and it was noisy because the car was 1.5 quarts low on oil. After they topped it up it still made noise. Then the service manager said they didn't know what was making the noise, nor could they say where the coolant went or where everyone was smelling it from. They did pressure test the cooling system and topped up the bottle.

Now the car has been driven another almost 2000 miles. The coolant level appears to be pretty much unchanged. The oil level is unchanged - I was worried that the car was consuming oil if it used 1.5 quarts in 1000 miles, but I don't think that was the case at all and instead was a service writer trying to ... something...

I have also been around or ridden in about 100 EA288's and confirmed that they do not make this noise, and sound a lot like a vw tdi normally should.

timing tensioner is making nose due to oil being low? ummm the TB system is dry correct? Wow, that's a new one, dealer must be confusing the TDI with a TSI chain drive sysetm.

Did VW ever have an oil submerged TB system? I think Ford uses an oil bathed TB on their 1.0t 3 cylinder.

I'm pretty sure my 2015 is making the same noise. My 2012 Sportwagen also made a similar noise, only it was much louder and could probably be called "worse" even when it was warmed up. That had over 120K, though, and I will say that noise along with a myriad of other factors was one of the guiding reasons for opting for a turn-in on that vehicle.

I never experienced any issues from it but it never sounded "right" compared to my '98 beetle (but then again, who would know whether that subtle rubbing noise is even happening given the ALH tractor sound signature!).

I feel like I am walking a fine line, dealer #3 suggests that I drive the car some more so it will be easier to diagnose since it is such a complicated engine.

Dealer #3 also told me that he has heard the noise before and I shouldn't be concerned as it is the way the rubber timing belt is riding on the pullies. (it doesn't really sound like that to me but I wouldn't rule it out without checking) And the service manager said that if he sprayed some liquid on the belt the noise would go away. Lucky for him the tech had 5 minutes before showed me how he checked under the upper timing cover, so I suggested that they go ahead and spray the timing belt right now... The noise didn't change at all.

740GLE said:

timing tensioner is making nose due to oil being low? ummm the TB system is dry correct? Wow, that's a new one, dealer must be confusing the TDI with a TSI chain drive sysetm.
Did VW ever have an oil submerged TB system? I think Ford uses an oil bathed TB on their 1.0t 3 cylinder.

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I'm sure there are many on this forum that has either changed their own timing belt or have seen the DIY's. As far as I know, and I have seen it with my own eyes, the EA288 has a dry belt, and it looks like it uses a non oil pressured tensioner. The rear of the head doesn't have a timing chain linking the cams either - I think many of the gasoline VW engines have a chain there.

Not sure spraying stuff on the timing belt was an advisable decision. So many spray lubricants have chemicals in them that could degrade the belt prematurely.

I'm not worried about spraying some water or even somethink like wd-40 on the belt, they are pretty durable to short term things like that.

Small update today - the car is still at the dealership. VW instructed the dealer to replace the timing belt, tensioner, rollers and waterpump. Dealer didn't replace the waterpump but did replace the belt, tensioner and two rollers. The sound is exactly the same as before.