Vw dealers and submitting vcds results

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
Not sure where this would be posted. I have a thread of my 15 issues in the appropriate section, but I want an opinion of the title at hand.

Seems as though dealers won't move unless there's a service light, but nearly half of the codes these modules can flag and store won't even flag a light.

So how can one force the issue that a window is having limit issues or a heated seat isn't working properly, or the a/c isn't as cool as it should be only to be confirmed by vcds, but a dealer won't even waste their time because there is no light?

I've tried submitting my scan results, and this specific dealer straight up ignores it because it's not their equipment doing the scan. And tells me there's no work, as there's no light.

Opinions? Answers? Suggestions? Maybe name me a dealer in Michigan?

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Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
Sounds like you need to bark to corporate to get the dealer to cooperate, start mentioning lemon law.

A proper service department would do a full scan anyway, and an issues they didn't have an answer for, they would upload their ODIS log (their scantool) to their Technician help line, call them and discuss what would be the best plan of action to further diagnose and fix the concerns.

Of course, that takes time and effort. We can't have that, now can we?

Guess that also is the double-edged sword of commission-based pay systems. A technician might not be too inclined to take on diagnostic jobs you know will be hard to get appropriately reimbursed for the amount of time the technician sinks into it.

Your problem might just be an individual service writer.
 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
Is it worth to stirr up this dealer? Or try another one?

I'm afraid of the same results. If I don't speak of it, or there's no light, if they do scan it, and find these codes, will they address them in good faith?



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Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
Is it worth to stirr up this dealer? Or try another one?

I'm afraid of the same results. If I don't speak of it, or there's no light, if they do scan it, and find these codes, will they address them in good faith?



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How a dealer who's actually trying to help you will operate (I worked for one.. briefly):

They'll translate your concerns to the technician and the technician's first step should be to scan every module on the car. VW's ODIS is basically setup to do this automatically anyway (not as easy to just scan one module at a time, VW wants technicians to get readings from EVERY module) and many repairs on these cars are going to require it for documentation as well at the dealer level.

Once they confirm that you were right about those codes, then yes, they should go about addressing them, and if they don't exactly know how to address it--even after asking the shop foreman, they have the VW Technicians' help line, which has access to much greater information than dealer level technicians do, and they will further instruct the technician on how to diagnose and fix the concerns. The other nice thing about using Tech Line for a dealer tech is VW cannot deny warranty labor reimbursement when you have documentation that Tech Line instructed them to do the work they did, even if it didn't fix the problem. That's always a struggle as a dealer tech is you can spend a lot of time on a problem and if the problem remains unresolved, they can "backflag," i.e. take away the technicians commission bonus for the time spent on the car.

But, if their diagnostic procedure involved tech line's help, and they followed tech line's instructions to a T, the technician is covered and will receive the proper commission for the time spent on the car.

That definitely is a bit of a struggle, though, when you have to battle the manufacturer and other parts of that mess of a system that is warranty repair to get the dealer itself and the technician properly reimbursed for their efforts, every tenth of an hour, it gets tiring. You spend more time as a technician barking up the tree to make sure you're being properly compensated for work you've already completed that could otherwise be spent actually working on the next job... Not an easy situation to be in for receiving a paycheck.

With that said, I understand why some dealers attempt to talk you out of diagnostic and repairs they feel might just become a large time suck for problems they might not see as being critical, but they are supposed to be representatives of the brand in a way and should do whatever they can to make sure you're happy with the car and want to keep coming back to the brand. But that might be where the disconnect happens, sales is a very different environment than service and sometimes the service guys lose sight of the big picture in the midst of their daily struggles to just get appropriately paid for what they're doing.

It might be worth stirring up the current dealer via corporate, it at least would be good to make VW aware of their unwillingness to work with you so they can take some corrective action, but ultimately, you probably will want to take your business to another dealer anyway for your own sake.
 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
I appreciate your thorough input. It honestly does make sense. But our last emails is telling me he's completely trying to bluff it, and seems upset I have access to see every possible headache that a light won't trigger...


He's totally playing me... And now finally wants to work with looking at the codes, (again?) to clear them.

It relates to what you said about getting the codes into their system, once a paper trail is started, it needs to be resolved, and it seems not scanning is the only way to avoid it. An email previous said he did have it scanned but found nothing wrong, hence nothing printed on the work invoice.

The fact he's giving in after a battle and calling it out makes it even more untrustworthy.

______________
______________

#####,


Well, I plan on clearing the codes, if they show up again, it's going to visit your dealership. If you don't want to work on it, I'll bring my business elsewhere.*


I'm not playing the check engine light game.


These are not emission codes. I can unplug all the doors and still not get a check engine light. Chassis codes will not flag a service engine light.


Now that there's a few more miles on it, I'm getting a new code from the gearbox module regarding an oil cooler valve.*


The drive train is covered under warranty, correct?



Jason

____________________



Jason,



I think you are misunderstanding me but what we should do is schedule an appointment so we can clear the codes with the factory equipment as we don’t know if the aftermarket scan tools can properly clear codes. Those codes being intermittent show the components are functioning properly which is why there is no light but I would highly recommend not messing around with your own scan tool as it is not a factory tool and thus not meant for the vehicle.



Thanks,

######








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tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
VCDS "not meant for the vehicle" . . . . I want to know what Thork the Luddite here is smoking, since it's got him mighty far away from reality (or he has been living under a very large rock) . . .

Run, don't walk, away from this twit . . . when they start with the lies and bulls**t, there is no going back!

- Tim
 
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Ol'Rattler

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PNA
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2006 BRM Jetta
VCDS is not an "approved" VW diagnostic tool. So if you expect VW to accept it's code results, they will tell you to pack sand. There are VG reasons to never go to a VW dealer if you are out of warranty and this is one of them.

A VW dealer's job is not to help the customer, but to minimize warranty claims. "Barking up the corporate ladder" will only do two things. They will tell you there is nothing they can do and then laugh their ass's off after you hang up.

"The chub bought a VW? Well so sorry, the check cleared and the warranty expired, so they are on their own."

It just kills me that anyone thinks that talking to corporate with a giant multinational corporation will do anything more than getting them even more violated.
 
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Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
PNA
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2006 BRM Jetta
VCDS is not an "approved" VW diagnostic tool. So if you expect VW to accept it's code results, they will tell you to pack sand. There is a VG reason to never go to a VW dealer if you are out of warranty and this is one of them.

A VW dealer's job is not to help the customer, but to minimize warranty claims. "Barking up the corporate ladder" will only do two things. They will tell you there is nothing they can do and then laugh their ass's off after you hang up.

"The chub bought a VW? Well so sorry, the check cleared and the warranty expired, so they are on their own."

It just kills me that anyone thinks that talking to corporate with a giant multinational corporation will do anything more than getting them even more violated.
 
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Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
Well, he does have a warranty, and barking up the corporate tree often does get results.

The only way VW comes up with the tech bulletins for common problems and their solutions, along with production changes and improved parts for problems is if dealers cooperate and send their feedback about every issue they encounter with new cars. Dealers can be a pain to deal with, but speaking as someone who's worked for a dealer, the manufacturer very much does want dealer cooperation to catch any and every common issue so they can quickly make necessary changes/improvements on any new model car. They do a number of things to encourage/incentivize dealer feedback on vehicle issues, and they have corporate technicians available for every region who can step in and look at cars themselves to give more detailed feedback to corporate if needed. But, it all hinges on how good the individual dealer (and in many cases, individual technicians) is at utilizing that system and for owners to bring their cars in.

Now, that might be a little different with these leftover TDIs, though, since they aren't producing them anymore and we might not get any new production models with the same engines the 2015s came with... So, it is a bit of an orphan.

Getting things warrantied at the dealer level can be a struggle at times, but not a totally futile one if you play it right. And it's necessary to the development of new cars themselves as well as fixes to the still under warranty vehicles to have customers come to the dealer and have the dealer provide feedback to VW. If those things don't happen and everyone basically says "screw the dealer, don't go to them" VW doesn't get made aware of common issues as easily and thus doesn't come up with fixes to what might be common problems.

VW has had a number of common issues crop up on recent cars, and some parts have gone through numerous revisions in the process of trying to find a long-lived fix. And every part that gets warrantied gets sent back to VW for evaluation. They will disassemble it for evaluation, and in the case of their frequently leaky TSI water pumps, they've even looked at residues found on gaskets and noted some of the repeat failures had oil on them, leading to gasket failure. So, they recommend finding and fixing any oil leaks to go along with replacing the water pump, and they've also reformulated the gasket material to be more oil resistant along with changing the formulation of the plastics and even changing one section of the assembly to metal on the most recent revisions.

They've had several revisions of the commonrail high pressure fuel pumps. Pre 2013 models have an extended warranty to 120k miles (at least in California, that's the duration of the extended warranty, some states it might be as low as 80k).

They've had revisions of the TSI intake manifolds for a failure of the intake manifold runner flap system that causes them to not be able to move through their full range of movement, thus setting a DTC for IMRC control difference. They've offered an extended warranty for 120k miles for this issue.

They've had a recall for late Mk5s and Tiguans (maybe expanded to other models now) where a 30A fuse for the body control module likes to get a little melty, and then you suddenly find yourself with half your exterior lights not working, and it might change every time you key it on as to which lights aren't functioning. An updated, more heat-resistant fuse and new fuse panel fixes that under an extended warranty.

These are just a handful of the things I was doing a couple years ago at the dealer. None of these fixes would have an extended warranty or updated parts if it weren't for feedback provided to the dealer and the dealer getting VW involved and sending the old parts back for evaluation.

It's a very large, complex system, and sometimes you get bad individuals at the dealer level who don't grasp the bigger picture, but at the end of the day, when it comes to warranty they are your only option and if you don't force the issue when it comes to difficult dealership employees, VW can't be made aware of issues to know if there's a common fault that needs updated parts or software fixes or anything. With a new car, you really do need to utilize the dealer system until that warranty is up, otherwise collectively the cars don't get developed or don't get good fixes/updated parts down the line to fix common issues.
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
VCDS is not an "approved" VW diagnostic tool. So if you expect VW to accept it's code results, they will tell you to pack sand. There is a VG reason to never go to a VW dealer if you are out of warranty and this is one of them.

A VW dealer's job is not to help the customer, but to minimize warranty claims. "Barking up the corporate ladder" will only do two things. They will tell you there is nothing they can do and then laugh their ass's off after you hang up.

"The chub bought a VW? Well so sorry, the check cleared and the warranty expired, so they are on their own."

It just kills me that anyone thinks that talking to corporate with a giant multinational corporation will do anything more than getting them even more violated.

Well, other than numerous reports of dealer techs using VCDS instead of the VW tool, since it often can do more and is easier . . . .
 

Ol'Rattler

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Joined
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Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Fair point. Perhaps I should have stated that most dealers will just plain old disregard any diagnostics you performed irregardless of what scan tool you used.

If they do use VCDS, more power to them, but in their minds eye, if they don't come up with the diagnostic results themselves, anything you might tell them is just so much bla, bla, bla.

You have to understand their point of view. If you send them down a rabbit hole that has nothing to do with the actual problem, they just wasted valuable time they will not get paid for.
 

tadawson

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Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Yes, the 'treat the customer like a dumba$$, no matter what' mentality comes across loud and clear. Which makes it even more fun when they ignore you, and waste thier own time . . . pointing that out can be quite fun! But yes, they are in the unfortunate position of not knowing if the customer knows his stuff, or is an utter boob, and that's gotta suck . . .

- Tim
 
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jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
Well, I called, and said "the rpm was like going high and low, like it trying to go forward, but not faster, then the light turned on, and now it's off, so I'm not sure if there is an issue."

"oh OK, we'll look at it this week "

Let's see what the next work invoice says.... I'll keep you all posted.


This is how I'm handing it to them... Lets see how it come back...


+++++++
+++++++


Address 02: Auto Trans (J743) Labels: 0D9-927-770.clb
Part No SW: 0D9 300 041 N HW: 02E 927 770 AQ
Component: DQ250-6F MQB H53 4512*
Revision: 03253104 Serial number: TFK01502141914
Coding: 0014
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 00202
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMDQ250021 001001
ROD: EV_TCMDQ250021.rod
VCID: 236B14C92AE3D859D4-8076

2 Faults Found:
10906 - Cooling Oil Valve*
P179D 00 [002] - Electrical Malfunction
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

10763 - Starter Enable from Selector Lever Sensor System*
P1734 00 [002] - -
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear


+++++++
+++++++


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Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Seems as though dealers won't move unless there's a service light, but nearly half of the codes these modules can flag and store won't even flag a light.
The reason the MIL light is there, for the most part, is for emission related faults. This is government mandated, If they are telling you they need to see a light for drive train, A/C or any none emission related fault, they are just packing you full of sand.

Clearing codes is for the most part is not a troubleshooting step and according to most manuals usually, it is the last thing you do after you actually fix the problem. If a tech does not understand this they have no clue and you need to move on.
 
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Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Yes, the 'treat the customer like a dumba$$, no matter what' mentality comes across loud and clear. Which makes it even more fun when they ignore you, and waste thier own time . . . pointing that out can be quite fun! But yes, they are in the unfortunate position of not knlwing if the customer knows his stuff, or is an utter boob, and that's gotta suck . . .

- Tim
Compound that by the fact many techs don't know how to troubleshoot.
 
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