Chicago 2009 TDI Owners: Non-Biodiesel Support Group

Jetta09Chicago

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Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Lake Forest Oasis

nibw, back in February I filled up at the Lake Forest Oasis Mobil. At that time there were no biodiesel stickers, and my credit card receipt says, "DIESEL 2." The fuel was ULSD, and I did not have any problems.

On several occasions I've used the Des Plaines Oasis Mobil with the same situation--no bio stickers with the receipt stating "DIESEL 2." I wonder whether the Oasis Mobil stations might have the same fuel source.
 

Jetta09Chicago

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Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
More on "Being Bothered" . . .

BTL, I share your concern about VW on several fronts:

1. VW's TDI website has a diesel station locator that includes biodiesel stations, misrepresenting the hardship we have in finding the proper fuel.

2. VW dealers lack knowledge of the fuel specs for TDIs or fail to disclose this info at the time of sale. I had to study the owner's manual to find the <B5 requirement!

3. As reported in this thread, VW dealers sometimes fill TDIs with biodiesel (e.g., Speedway) upon delivery.

Instead I would like to see VW do the following:

1. Join with other diesel vehicle manufacturers in lobbying state legislatures to stop mandating biodiesel (or giving it preferential tax rates as done in Illinois) thereby supporting "clean (petro)diesel" technology as one of many "greener" transportation options. (Aren't there other manufacturers whose current diesel autos require non-bio fuel? I believe this covers a wider constituency than VW.)

2. Generate some immediate solutions for 2009 TDI owners in terms of (a) providing recommended maintenance protocols (oil change intervals) assuming that B11 is the prevalent fuel, or (b) cooperating with oil additive manufacturers, such as Chevron Oronite, to launch products aimed at reducing engine wear.

Like you, I love my car and the technology it represents. However, I feel that VW did not provide me with adequate information at the time of sale, and I feel basically left in the lurch having to start an online "support group" of likeminded owners.

So until the situation changes, we can help each other by sharing info on local petrodiesel availability...AND MAYBE DO SOME LOBBYING OF THE ILLINOIS LEGISLATURE (which I plan to discuss in an upcoming post).
 

PalosParked

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Location
Palos Park, IL
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2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Jetta09Chicago said:
So until the situation changes, we can help each other by sharing info on local petrodiesel availability...AND MAYBE DO SOME LOBBYING OF THE ILLINOIS LEGISLATURE (which I plan to discuss in an upcoming post).
Here! Here! (or is it Hear! Hear!..lets save that one for another thread) Realistically all we have to do is just let them know that they would receive more tax revenue $$$ if they just removed the sales tax exemption on the sale of bio blends entirely.

On another subject...I was searching for non bio on the web and came upon this link to BP Ultimate high cetane diesel. Before you get your hopes up ...it's BP UK (not USA). I thought the information interesting so I have attached the link for you anyway. About half way down the page is a quicktime movie demonstrating the performance of their high cetane ultimate in a VW Touareg TDI. Pretty interesting... I thought. Click on this link: http://BP Ultimate - UK. Then click on the movie.

While I was there I again requested information about BP diesel and premium diesel availability and service station .
 
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coreycanfield

Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Location
Milwaukee, WI
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI 2.0L
messed up

This situation is so messed up. As a new owner of a 2009 Jetta TDI, I don't know what to believe. What can we use, what can't we use, and why isn't it frigging transparent so any human being can figure it out? Frankly, I am coming to a conclusion that VW can't hold up their side of the B5 mandate because it isn't properly regulated in local/state/federal channels of fuel distribution to the general public.

Additive or not, these jack-holes better figure it out.

C-:mad:
 

PalosParked

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Joined
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Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
I got an important reply back from BP

Hey palosparked, BP sent you a Baby Mail.
When you need to convey an important message, always have a baby do it.
No matter what the message is, it's guaranteed to sound cute, after all, a baby said it.
It's an audio response. Turn on your speakers and Click on this link..BP response to my premium diesel inquiry
.
I guess I got what I asked for..........:eek:
 

dzcad90

Rolex & gin
Joined
Mar 15, 1999
Location
Joliet, IL USA
TDI
Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
Jetta09Chicago said:
So until the situation changes, we can help each other by sharing info on local petrodiesel availability...AND MAYBE DO SOME LOBBYING OF THE ILLINOIS LEGISLATURE (which I plan to discuss in an upcoming post).
Honestly, Biodiesel is good for just about everyone in Illinois except for a very small minority of Clean Diesel technology vehicles. I haven't done much research, and I don't know about the new Bluetec Benzos or the BMW 335d, but most other cars, trucks, tractors, etc.. run just fine on a B5 or higher blend. Biodiesel produced locally from Illinois crops creats both jobs and commerce in the state. Tax-free / Tax-preferred fuel is good for 99% of diesel consumers in the State.

Where's the incentive to change mandates / tax preferred status on Biodiesel? There's really not.
 
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Jetta09Chicago

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Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
dzcad90, I appreciate that biodiesel has merits as one potential "green" option. However, clean ULSD petrodiesel is another option.

The reason I started this discussion is the extreme hardship in being able to locate conventional diesel for my 2009 TDI. I just laid out nearly $25,000 and now feel screwed. I can't easily trade in my vehicle without taking a major depreciation hit.

On Monday evening I stopped at a new Citgo station on Illinois 72 in South Barrington. It's a major station, with dedicated diesel lanes for trucks, as well as diesel pumps for cars. There were no biodiesel stickers, so I thought this station was promising. I went inside and asked the attendant, and he told me all their fuel is bio. Do you get my frustration?

So I question why Illinois law is inhospitable to the 2009 Jetta TDI--the "Green Car of the Year"--as an environment-friendly alternative. And I am worried about the potential damage I am doing to my engine by filling it with potentially mislabeled fuel.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Location
Auburn Hills, MI
TDI
92 Corrado
b4black said:
No. Refrdigetors are about 35-40°F, well above the cloud point of diesel. Anything falling out of that high a temperature is biodiesel impurities.

If you don't agree with this, take some non-bio diesel #2 and try it along side some B11. Nothing will fall out of pure ULSD.

It's a reliable test. Much more so than asking the person behind the counter. ;)
I do not doubt the reliability of the results of your test, I was merely pointing out that the wax particles you're observing are fuel quality dependent and not necessarily bio content. While it is more likely that you will observe waxing at refrigerator temps with bio blends, the only reason for that is that the cloud point of a bio blend is more often higher than that of a well treated ULSD.

We can see bio blends with cloud points as high as 15C in south Asia and as low as -50C in the dead of winter in Russia. While you're not likely to see either of those two extreme examples in the Chicago metro area - the point is: when you begin to see wax fall out of a fuel sample it is because you are nearing the cloud point of that particular fuel.

I would challange you to put your ULSD sample in a colder refrigerator and see what happens. Alternatively, try a B11-B20 soy based bio blend in the refrigerator that's been winterized to have a cloud point below that of your fridge.
 

PalosParked

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Joined
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Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
looks like coagulated piss

b4black said:
No. Refrdigetors are about 35-40°F, well above the cloud point of diesel. Anything falling out of that high a temperature is biodiesel impurities.
corrado-correr said:
While it is more likely that you will observe waxing at refrigerator temps with bio blends, the only reason for that is that the cloud point of a bio blend is more often higher than that of a well treated ULSD.
bio fuels often have more of a yellow tint to them as compaired to ULSD.
So a simple test to see if a diesel sample is a bio blended diesel would be to put a jar of it in the refrigerator. Chill it and later if you see a jar of 'coagulated piss' in your refrigerator....DON"T Put it in your new TDI (or drink it either)!!!! :eek:

I apologize for making lite of your serious comments...corrado-correr and b4black. Seriously, Thank you both for your information and comments. I know more now because of you. I just couldn't help but to try to lend a little humor in here somewhere. It's really frustrating when it's sooo hard to get a simple answer ..is it Bio blended or not. Are the pump labels correct or not. Can your website filter/sort for bio blended diesel vs petro diesel and why not? :confused:
 
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PalosParked

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2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
corrado-correr said:
wait... piss coagulates in the fridge? my girl friend is going to hate me, she barley puts up with diesel fuel in the fridge as it is.
:eek: Right ...right...right. I don't know what came over me. I should never have used a term like 'coagulated piss' ...... I can see how that would get you into trouble with your girlfriend. My apologies again.....I should have said that chilled bio diesel fuel would look more like congealed piss. Be sure to mark it well, don't put it in bottles labeled green tea and never ever store it next to the cottage cheese. :eek:
 
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Jetta09Chicago

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Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Non-Biodiesel Fuel Testing (Follow-Up to Post #100)

I received an e-mail from the fuel engineer who kindly performed testing on three Chicago-area diesel samples. He wrote,

"All three diesel fuel samples you provided (BP, Meijer, Mobil) were free of biodiesel.
Usually the yellow tint means bio content, but in this case it must be natural."


To remind everyone, the samples I submitted were from:

1. BP in Roselle
2. Meijer in Rolling Meadows
3. Mobil at the I-90 Des Plaines Oasis

Please keep in mind that these non-bio results are specific to these stations and not necessarily representative of the BP and Mobil chains overall.

Focusing on BP, I recently came across a "Product Information" sheet dated 2/19/08 for Amoco Diesel (ULSD No. 2):
http://www.agland.coop/images/E0173401/amocoulsd2_pi.pdf. This document indicates that Amoco Diesel has 0-5% biodiesel content. I contacted the BP corporate office to inquire as to whether this specification is still accurate. From experience, I have never come across an Amoco Diesel-branded pump with a biodiesel sticker. When BP corporate responds, I will post their reply, as this could become an option for those of you who are close to Amoco Diesel pumps.

With regard to Meijer, their corporate office has confirmed that none of their Illinois stations offer biodiesel with the exception of Urbana. Also the corporate website states that all Meijer Gas Stations offer diesel and flags the few stations that offer biodiesel as an additional option. So this is a potential resource.

Mobil seems to be the most inconsistent, which reflects that their diesel is not a branded product. I have come across confirmed biodiesel at Mobil (e.g., Gilberts) but also found stations with non-bio (e.g., Illinois Tollway Oases).

The fuel engineer has graciously offered to perform future testing. He recommended that we test winterized diesel blends during the cold-weather months later this year.
 

b4black

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Location
IL
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1998 Jetta blue
corrado-correr said:
I do not doubt the reliability of the results of your test, I was merely pointing out that the wax particles you're observing are fuel quality dependent and not necessarily bio content. ....I would challange you to put your ULSD sample in a colder refrigerator and see what happens. Alternatively, try a B11-B20 soy based bio blend in the refrigerator that's been winterized to have a cloud point below that of your fridge.
NO. A refrigerator is WELL above the cloud point of any ULSD or B11 in the Chicago area. No way it is wax.

The biodiesel impurities are not soluble in diesel fuel. They will eventually fall out at room temperture as well. They are less soluble in cool temps(~35°F), so you can see them drop out in a day or two.

The test will fail to find Biodiesel if the B100 had no impurities - i.e. if it were distilled. Not much distilled B100 out there.
 

PalosParked

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Palos Park, IL
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2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Requesting a list of Automotive Highway Diesel Service Station Locations selling D2 (

Hey guys, I need a little help..if you get a chance please send Mr Barnickel a quick email to let him know that we all are interested in locating (non-bio) diesel fuel sources. Thank you!
(..Mr Barnickel is very nice and interested in us..just very very busy. Atlas Oil services 100+ service stations in the NW Indiana, Chicago area. They sell BP diesel..no Bio, but not all the stations carry diesel. They are headquartered in Michigan and extensively service Michigan and Indiana. Chicago is a newer market for them and they are interested in our business. Can you PM or email me if you send a message to Atlas. thanks again)
....And please check back. I need your support with two other distributors.
Palos Parked to Alvin
July 9, 2009
Dear Mr Barnickel, District manager, Atlas Oil Company, aBarnickel@atlasoil.com
.
I wanted to let you know that I stopped by (your recently acquired) BP at 4314 Main St, Downers Grove, IL. The station looks good and the credit card reader is working just fine again. Thank you.
.
I purchased some of your automotive diesel and filled up my Volkswagen TDI this afternoon. ...$2.599/ gal for the D2 (automotive ULSD highway diesel) was a good price and shhhhh..cheaper than the Bio blended (probably B11) stuff at the Speedway just down the road.
.
I am following through on our previous correspondence of June 3rd, 10th, and June 21st. We are still looking to add diesel fueling locations for our Chicago 2009 TDI Owners: Non-Biodiesel Support Group to use ..(Remember I told you that VW, Audi, Mercedes, Volvo, etc, don't want us using greater than 5% bio blended diesel in our new 'clean diesel' automobiles or they will void warranty) I was wondering if you were getting close to completing that list of the other Atlas serviced service stations providing (non bio blended) automotive highway ULSD diesel in our area. We would like to continue and expand our support of your products and alert others of the availability of the quality automotive highway diesel (and less than 6% bioblended highway diesel) that you provide in the Chicago and Northwest Indiana area. Here's another link to our TDIclub.com forum posting.
Chicago 2009 TDI Owners: Non-Biodiesel Support Group at TDIclub forum
.
Thank you again in advance.
.
Oh..and if you are providing any premium grade-higher cetane automotive diesel fuel in our area, there are several members interested in that product as well.
'
Sincerely,
 
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Thunderstruck

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Chicago
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2015 GTI SE 6M
Is there any way the engineer could determine the cetane rating of the fuels you sent, or are they already gone? I realize it may vary on a batch by batch basis, but it would give some idea of who's selling good stuff and who's not.
 

Jetta09Chicago

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Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Non-Biodiesel Testing

Thunderstruck, the fuel engineer originally wanted to perform cetane testing, but management would not approve this since this test is apparently more costly.

A few months ago, I spoke with a fuel engineer at BP in Naperville. He told me that Chicago-area BP diesel comes from the Whiting, Indiana, refinery and has a 40+ cetane specification; it is not marketed as "premium" in this region. (I am still waiting to hear back from BP regarding my question as to whether all Amoco Diesel-branded fuel is in fact non-bio.)
 
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Sip'n Diesel

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Location
San Joaquin Valley, I have VCDS (KII-USB)
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2003 ALH: 254,000 miles
40 cetane is just the federally mandated minimum...

I would be interested in submitting some fuel samples from BP and/or Shell. I would like to know what the cost is for 3 samples, since that's what you did. I'm assuming we have to pay for it and all we can determine is a "YAY" or "NAY" on bio-content. fantastic info for this thread in general, but I might be willing to spend the extra buck to get cetane numbers! I want that good stuff :D

OTOH, if testing is free just give me the info and I'll get to work on as many locations as possible!

all the BPs I visit/have visited in Chicagoland don't have that 6-20% sticker, but it seems like the BPs on the fringe of the suburbs generally do have that sticker. the only pattern I see is once you leave the 6-counties, the probability of seeing any labeling increases. IIRC a BP in Ottawa has the bio sticker, and a BP in Rochelle (not to be confused with Roselle) has the sticker as well. seems like every time I see one I don't have the camera and I forget to make a note of the location. I've been to that Roselle location before and IIRC there was no bio sticker at the time... only the "2007 ULSD" sticker like everywhere else

haven't seen any labeling at any Shells (yet)

attention station owners/managers: are we going to have to start reporting these stations to the authoritah?!?! better start labeling your pumps according to THE LAW! oh, and it wouldn't hurt to explain what diesel is to your employees :p



 

BudMan5

Active member
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Location
SW Missouri
TDI
2009 Jetta
New Guy-No central Illinois -BioDiesel

Just wanted to share my adventures attermpting to fiund petrodiesel in north central Illinois. I just purchase a 2009 Jetta TDI. I have been transporting RVs from the manufacturers in northern Indiana using the truck in my sig line. I am very wellversed on petrodiesel/bioddiesel and LSD and ULSFD.

First, I have been abnle to find only one petrodiesel station in the area sewrviced by Sierra VW of Ottawa. The staff there , by the way, are cluel;ess. They fill all their cars at a local Circle K (Marathon) with biodiesel and I had to drag them over there to prove it. Flying J at LaSalle has a straight petrodiesel ULSD pump as well as a LSD pump. I can run (and do) LSD in my F350. Those pumps are on the east end of the car pumps. The ULSD (non bio) is in the western line of car pumps. All the RV pumps are petrodiesel. You can access all the Flying Js including type of fuel and cost nation wide and Canada at their website:

http://www.flyingj.com/flyingjPortalWebProject/flyingjPortal.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=flyingjPortal_portal_page_59&_windowLabel=dieselprices_1_4&dieselprices_1_4_actionOverride=%2Fflyingj%2Fdiesel%2FdieselPricePageFlow%2FgetDieselPrices

I saw some of you were asking about GPS POIs and you can download the Flying POI here:

http://www.poi-factory.com/taxonomy/term/24?page=5

plus hundreds of other POIs including ULSD stations.

All of the Shell, Marathon, Thornton, and BP stations in the north central Illinois area are biodiesel. I have not checked the Feece on Rt 71 in Ottawa but will shortly. By saying this, I am stating that I have seen the blue EPA biodiesel sticker on their pumps. I can not use biodisel in my Ford 6.0L so I have been watching for a long time.

Really glad to find all of you, hoping that I can get some help in the future.
 

BTL

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'Burbs of Chicago
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2013 PGM Jetta TDI Premium DSG
Feece sells b1 and b5, as far as they have told me. Both fine for the 09 Jetta. Good to know about Flying J, as I am heading to the Quad Cities, so I will stop there on my way!!
 

dzcad90

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Location
Joliet, IL USA
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Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
BudMan5 said:
First, I have been abnle to find only one petrodiesel station in the area sewrviced by Sierra VW of Ottawa. The staff there , by the way, are cluel;ess.
Sierra = Clueless. Has been for at least ten years. I've bought 3 VWs and never once from them. I used to live in Streator, so they were the closest shop around.

Only exception is Don W. in parts there. Awesome guy and I'm going to start giving all my parts business back to him. I used to be in there at least once a week for maintenance / OEM upgrade items.
 

GibMir1

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Chicagoland
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06 Jetta w/DSG Grenade
Another non-bio station

The BP in Bartlett (59 and Stearns) does not have any bio-stickers on their stand-alone pump on the N side of the property. $2.79/gal, I think.
I fill my 06 jetta regularly there.
As a side, I also inquired to Petroliance (Elgin - Rte. 31) about their labeled bio-diesel pumps. The reply essentially is the pumps distribute b11 in the summer and they switch to a non-bio / D2 blend October through March. They claim 43 Cetane - so I wonder the dino is 40 Cetane, with 3 points 'extra credit' from the bio.
Seems to me that in illinois, the trend is b11 at many stations. Could that be to help subsidize soybean farming in illinois??
 

dzcad90

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Joliet, IL USA
TDI
Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
Jetta09Chicago said:
dzcad90, I appreciate that biodiesel has merits as one potential "green" option. However, clean ULSD petrodiesel is another option.

The reason I started this discussion is the extreme hardship in being able to locate conventional diesel for my 2009 TDI. I just laid out nearly $25,000 and now feel screwed. I can't easily trade in my vehicle without taking a major depreciation hit.
Believe me, I share in your frustration. Look at my signature. There's a history of three TDI's in there, including an '09.

However, I am asking you to take a look at this from the perspective of everyone who doesn't own modern clean-diesel technology, which includes most, if not all, legislators and certainly all the lobbyists for Biodiesel incentives.

There's no incentive to cater to the small minority of us who require Petro ULSD only. Biodiesel is good for the Illinois economy in general, which greatly outweighs the benefit of tax revenue that VW TDI owners are going to provide.

Either way, I think VW is going to have to change it's position on the matter in the coming years. We can't be the only state that is providing heavy incentives for biodiesel sales, and where biodiesel blends in excess of B5 are becoming the rule rather than the exception. If this is the case, maybe Illinois will be come like the old CARB-5 states where TDIs are not sold.

Either way, I keep my network of Petrodiesel pumps in my head. I guarantee that some of the fuels we are talking about in this thread are actually bio and we don't know it. Have I probably unknowingly put Biodiesel in my '09 as a result of lacsidasical practices by fueling station owners to not post the "Biodiesel Blend" stickers on their pumps? I'd almost wager so and I'm only on 9 fillups.

It's becoming an epidemic and unfortunately it's going to come to the point where we just can't worry about it as there will be nothing we can do. Fill up with what you believe to be petrodiesel. Most of the time you will get the goods, occasionally you're going to get some bio in there. An errant fill up by a signifigant other, drivers delivering the wrong diesel blend to the wrong station, etc.. Nobody is as anal about this as we are, and when the sales network isn't on board it's pretty much a lost cause.
 

PalosParked

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Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
2009 Jetta TDI Cup to run on B5 biodiesel

I hadn't seen this before and thought I'd share if you hadn't either.
Volkswagen's Jetta TDI Cup series will be returning to the racetracks of North America at the end of April with 30 diesel-powered sedans in the hands of young up and coming drivers. For this year's sophomore season Volkswagen will be filling the tanks of the Jettas with B5 biodiesel. Houston, Texas-based Hyperfuels will be supplying the 5 percent biofuel blend for the cars which will consume about two tankfuls of fuel over the course of 10 races. The Syndiesel supplied by Hyperfuels has a 10 year shelf life addressing one of the biggest issues with some biodiesels, the tendency to go rancid after a period of time in storage. Volkswagen has approved B5 for use in all regular production diesel VW and Audi models.
The full article link is: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/02/26/2009-jetta-tdi-cup-to-run-on-b5-biodiesel/
The SynDiesel B5 biodiesel that HYPERFUELS is supplying is a synthetically made diesel fuel, with a 63 cetane rating, storage life of up to 10 years and 20 percent more BTU's than conventional diesel. The same fuel used in the 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Cup racing series is available for purchase on www.hyperfuels.com
Round 5
July 24 – 26 - Autobahn Country Club - Joliet, IL (with Speed World Challenge/Atlantics)
.
I was just over to VW of Orland Park to see one of the TDI SCCA racers and enter a drawing for 2 tickets to the event. Tried to siphon some fuel but got caught and no test drive either :(. Sip'n can I borrow a straw?
.
63 cetane...wow! I'm going to ask some more questions..maybe this is in our future? I'm sending them an email for more information.
Edit: found thread and posted there. Mark V - Cetane Number - Can it be too high? It's pricey fuel. How much do you love your TDI?
 
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PalosParked

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Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Google map Chicago Diesel locations updated to 7-12-09

Jetta09Chicago.and fellow contributors..Finding Diesel #2 is kinda like a big treasure hunt, isn't it?
I just wanted to let everyone know that the google map (see sig below) is up to date including the 'flying j' in LaSalle submitted by budman5 with the 2 exceptions: GibMir1 *BP in Bartlett.. and a *Mobil station posted by BTL (some time ago) in Oswego..for some reason I couldn't find it on the map...silly me, it's late I guess, I'll look again tomorrow and add both. I also added submission credits..Please let me know if I've missed anybody. Stations are alpha by city. thanks all!
*edit...All done Oswego Mobile and Bartlett BP added
 
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scurvy

Good Ol' Boy
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
Chicago IL USA
TDI
2006 Golf
Disclaimer: I do not have a dog in this hunt

Not trying to be a smartarse here, but there seems to be an awful lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth about using B5 or less in 2009s, despite B11 seeming to be the near-ubiquitous fuel available here in the Land of Lincoln. Has anybody actually tried using just B11 to see if there's any effect - good or bad - on DPF-equipped diesels? I've seen the thread about B100 being unsuitable, to which I think we can all say, "Well duh", but a low blend like B11 may very well work perfectly in the 2009s and up.

VWoA also said anything more than B5 would cause both my TDIs would explode and they would cheerfully refuse to do any warranty work on them, but B11 has worked beautifully in both. Honestly, the B11 around Chicago is an excellent fuel - relatively high cetane, low smoke and very lubricious. So much so that when we had the IP of the Beetle sent out to DFIS, they said the actual wear parts (rollers/camplate/etc...) all looked practically new.

I would think with careful records and a couple cheap UOAs, it would be easy to determine if this is much ado about nothing or something to really be concerned about.

Anyone else think this might be an idea worth trying or would admit to using B11, or am I just butting in where I don't belong?

Respectfully,
scurvy
 

BudMan5

Active member
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Location
SW Missouri
TDI
2009 Jetta
I somewhat agree, but...........

I think using biodiesel maybe beneficial in that it adds considerable lubrication to the relatively "dry" ULSD.

But, the fact remains that use of biodiesel is detectable and using it would be a valid reason for VW to deny a warranty claim.

What needs to happen is the VW needs to recognize the fact that they are selling the 2009 Jetta TDI even though they know that there is very few sources for the required fuel. Worse yet, even knowing the problem, they are not informing their customers.

I live in a very politically corrupt state (Illinois). Politicians in this state absolutely love any chance to get in front of the cameras. The Attorney General, Lisa Madigan, is no different than any of the other politicians including her father, the Speaker of the State House of Representaives. The AG-IL has a very active consumer fraud division and they would leap at the chance to make an impassioned speech of of outrage before the cameras in time for the evening news.

VW is playing with a potentially explosive public relations nightmare and they need to get aggressive about finding a solution real quick.

Just ask Ford about the disaster they had (and still have) when they continued to sell the 6.0L diesel in their Super Duties even though they knew it was a poorly engineered and flawed product.
 

Jetta09Chicago

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Thanks to everyone for the insightful comments over the weekend.

And a special word of thanks to PalosParked for creating and maintaining the map of petrodiesel stations.

I have updated the master list to include the Bartlett BP and the LaSalle Flying J.

Please keep the petro stations coming! We especially need coverage in the City of Chicago and the northern regions.
 

BTL

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Location
'Burbs of Chicago
TDI
2013 PGM Jetta TDI Premium DSG
I guess I'd LIKE to think that any risks of b11 could be mitigated by changing the oil at 5k or 7.5k intervals to combat any dilution issues.

Not that I want to be the person experimenting, but I guess I would really like to know how bad B11 is, or is not.

It sure would be nice to fuel up just about anywhere instead of having to really pick and choose.
 

PalosParked

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Minnesota 2009 TDIers are our involuntary volunteers in testing bio blends

Minnesota Biodiesel


In 2007, Governor Tim Pawlenty unveiled a plan for taking the state's biodiesel requirement from the current 2 percent blend in diesel fuel to a 20 percent blend in diesel fuel by 2015.
"Minnesota has led the nation in unleashing a renewable energy revolution," Governor Pawlenty said. "Other states are starting to catch on and it’s time for us to continue to blaze the trail to a cleaner, more secure energy future. Increasing the level of biodiesel in diesel fuel means that more of our energy will come from farm fields rather than oil fields and that's a good thing."
This "B20" proposal relates to a statutory goal signed into law during the 2005 session and modified in 2008 to set intermediate blending mandates of B5 by May 1, 2009 and B10 by May 1, 2012.:eek:

full article http://www.mda.state.mn.us/renewable/biodiesel/default.htm

So....it could be worse.....at least we in Illinois can still find non bio petro diesel. You can't even buy it in Minnesota! It's b5 minimum. VWoA will have to change something by May 2012 or stop marketing to Minnesota.

On the bright side..at least in Minnesota you know what you are are getting when they pull up to the pump. ..and b5 works for now
 
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