Chicago 2009 TDI Owners: Non-Biodiesel Support Group

N8116B

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Location
NW Suburbs of Chicago, Il.
TDI
2009 Jetta
Stopped at the Citgo station at
5604 S Il Route 31
Crystal Lake, IL 60014-4518
(815) 477-1078

This is at the SE corner of Rt 176 and Rt 31 and the pumps are marked ULSD with no bio-diesel sticker anywhere to be seen.
 
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dzcad90

Rolex & gin
Joined
Mar 15, 1999
Location
Joliet, IL USA
TDI
Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
BTL said:
They just redid the pumps at my throntons, and there are not any bio stickers. Perhaps they are shifting away from bio?
The pumps at the Thorntons at Jefferson and Infantry were recently redone and they have the Bio stickers. When I had my '03 a few months back you could definitely smell the bio burning..

However, to my surprise, the Delta Sonic and Jefferson and Larkin does not have Bio stickers on the pump. Filled up there mid-week this week and so far have ran through a quarter tank. Not pleased with the mileage, however I've only done some in town and one trip to Hammond and back with 4 people in the car, so that might be a contributing factor.

The Ammoco at 55 and Jefferson st was closed. It looked like they were either getting new pumps or getting all the pumps serviced.
 

Jetta09Chicago

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Wauconda BP

For those of you driving through the far northwest suburbs, I found a non-biodiesel station in Wauconda:

BP
512 W. Liberty St. (Route 176, just east of Route 59)
Wauconda, IL 60084
847-487-8303

The product is branded as "Amoco Diesel," and the cashier on duty confirmed that it is non-bio. The pump receipt says, "DIESEL No. 2."
 

PalosParked

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Chicago area diesel fuel (non-bio) locations on Google Maps

I was playing with google maps today...(I really need to get a life) and created the following:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=106808463649355293967.00046cd50faa8ddb6b1f5
It's a liitle bit of a PIA in that I haven't figured out how to allow edit and collaboration priviledges so multiple TDIclub members could assist. Problem is that each contributor creates their own database and I'm not sure how to merge all the input to then show in single (database) map.
Anyone worked with google sites or google maps? Comments?
 
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N8116B

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Location
NW Suburbs of Chicago, Il.
TDI
2009 Jetta
N8116B said:
Stopped at the Citgo station at
5604 S Il Route 31
Crystal Lake, IL 60014-4518
(815) 477-1078

This is at the SE corner of Rt 176 and Rt 31 and the pumps are marked ULSD with no bio-diesel sticker anywhere to be seen.
It also appears that the Citgo in Woodstock on Rt47 and the one at the intersection of Rt14 and Rt176 on the west side of Crystal Lake are ULSD non-bio stations. I need to stop in an confirm, but a quick drive by did not show any bio-stickers, only the ULSD ones.
 

Thunderstruck

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
What about a POI file for people with GPS? Check out http://www.poiedit.com/. I have a lot of custom POI files on my Nuvi, including ULSD stations, hot dog places, Wal Mart, red light cameras, Costco etc.
As an on topic note, I stopped by Meijer in Rolling Meadows and their pump didn't have a bio sticker on it today.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Location
Auburn Hills, MI
TDI
92 Corrado
b4black said:
I test the fuel by sticking some in a glass jar and then put it in the refridegator. B11 will have junk fall out in a day or two, straight diesel will remain clean.
This is a property of the cloud point of the fuel and is not exclusive to biodiesel.
 

Jetta09Chicago

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
PalosParked, the Google Map you created is an excellent resource! I have been wanting to create something like this, but you beat me to it. If you could private-message me with a link to the instructions, I would be happy to update the map each time I make additions/deletions to the master list.:)

Thunderstruck, I have used the Rolling Meadows Meijer several times, and it is already on the list. I had confirmed with Meijer's corporate office that all of their stations offer non-biodiesel D2. Downstate, their Urbana station offers both non-bio and bio.
 

PalosParked

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Google Map-Chicago Area Highway Diesel Fuel (non Bio)Service Station Locations

Here's the map link:
.
Jetta09Chicago, IM sent, Glad you liked the google map. Thank you for creating and maintaining the source lists and keeping the thread going! Without the contributions of the members here, that map would only have 9 items on it!
.
I think that with the graphical representation, we will attract a lot more interest and many more contributors. The fuel disributors I contacted (Atlas, Texor, and Parent Petroleum) apparently don't have easily seachable/sortable/printable databases for highway diesel (excluding bio) service stations that they can send us. So, I wanted to present a carrot to them and show them that one hand can wash the other. I have again sent links to them to show them what we are about...it's not just a request by one guy who buys 13 gallons every week or two. The TDI with it's frugal high mileage is its own worst enemy from an attention getting volume buying standpoint. :D
.
Thunderstruck, Hmmm..very interesting! (poiedit.com) Thank you. It looks like it works with mapquest and excel as well as the gps units. My magellan has a software error...need I say more? I've been using my Iphone 3g so downloadable points of interest never even entered my mind. It's worth checking into for those that rely on their gps units.
 

Jetta09Chicago

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Non-Biodiesel Fuel Testing

I have some exciting news. An engineer from a U.S. auto manufacturer came across this thread and contacted me privately. He has offered to perform analytic testing of locally available diesel that will help us understand such issues as biodiesel content, cetane, water contamination, etc.

Last night I collected samples from three stations and shipped them out for analysis. The stations included in this test are:

1. BP (Roselle) - There seems to be a lot of interest in this board in BP and legacy "Amoco" products. We know that locally available BP diesel is sourced from the Whiting, Indiana, refinery. The Roselle station had no clue as to bio content, so this will help us understand what we are getting when the product is branded as Amoco Diesel.

2. Mobil (Des Plaines Oasis) - I selected this station because Mobil has a lock on the Illinois Tollway Oases throughout the metro region. Since they are on the highway, I am assuming they are high-turnover facilities. I have confirmed that the oases sell petrodiesel, but would like to know more about the cetane and overall quality of this fuel.

3. Meijer (Rolling Meadows) - Meijer diesel has generated a mixture of positive and negative reviews on tdiclub.com. At the same time, the corporate office has informed me that all Meijer Gas Stations in the Chicago area sell only petrodiesel, which they market at Meijer Premium Diesel. So this test will help us understand the extent of any "premium" properties compared to "non-premium" fuel samples.

When I receive the results, I will be happy to share them and get your reactions. Stay tuned!
 

Jetta09Chicago

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Speedway - Hoffman Estates

I visited the following station tonight and discovered it has reverted to biodiesel, so I have removed it from the list:

Speedway
798 Barrington Rd. (at Bode Rd.), Hoffman Estates, IL 60169
630-830-9420

This station has fluctuated back and forth. Back in May a cashier told me they had discontinued selling biodiesel, but tonight I found fresh new bio stickers on the pump.

We now no longer have any Speedway stations on the list.
 

Thunderstruck

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
Great news about the testing-can't wait to hear the results on what is discovered. I have only used Speedway a couple of times as I found my mileage suffered when I used it, based on my day to day observation of economy. This was with my Golf, where bio wasn't a concern.
 

PalosParked

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
resource list of Chicago-area service stations that supply No.2 non-biodiesel fuel.

Jetta09Chicago said:
Please help me create a resource list of Chicago-area service stations that supply No.2 non-biodiesel fuel. Use this thread to post the following info:

1. Station Name
2. Address (city/state/zip) and/or Nearest Major Intersection
3. Type of Fuel ("Conventional" vs. "Premium" Diesel No. 2)
4. How Non-Bio Content Verified (Attendant, Manager, Distributor)

Before submitting, please examine the fuel pump to confirm that there are no disclosure labels indicating a biodiesel blend (usually blue or black stickers).

As background, the 2009 Jetta TDI owner's manual states,

"Diesel fuel with a higher concentration than ULSD-Diesel No. 2 ASTM D975 and Bio-diesel with a higher concentration than 5% like B11, B20 or B100 are strictly prohibited."

For owners who wish to comply with this specification, residents of Illinois are at an extreme hardship. Under SB 46, signed into law in 2003, biodiesel blends above 10% receive an exemption from state sales tax. For this reason, the vast majority of diesel pumps exceed VW's biodiesel requirement.

Once again, the purpose of this thread is to build a non-biodiesel service station resource list for Chicago-area 2009 TDI owners. (There are other forums for general discussion of biodiesel and experiences with such fuel on 2009 TDI cars.)

Any contributions appreciated!
Jetta09Chicago, I saw the update to post #1.....This being your 102nd anniversary of that, your first post on this thread I thought that I would repost your post#1 again for you and say...Nice going and thank you!
.
:)
 

b4black

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Location
IL
TDI
1998 Jetta blue
corrado-correr said:
This is a property of the cloud point of the fuel and is not exclusive to biodiesel.
No. Refrdigetors are about 35-40°F, well above the cloud point of diesel. Anything falling out of that high a temperature is biodiesel impurities.

If you don't agree with this, take some non-bio diesel #2 and try it along side some B11. Nothing will fall out of pure ULSD.

It's a reliable test. Much more so than asking the person behind the counter. ;)
 

PalosParked

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Should I post this diesel fuel locator here or not??

I was doing a little web surfing and came accross this interesting diesel locator site.

Find The Cheapest Truck Stop - The TruckMaster Fuel Finder™ Truck Stop Locator

I did a quick search on Chicago, IL 60606 and the results came back with 133 diesel service station-truck stop sites within 100 miles of Chicago.
Unfortunately the first one listed was the Speedway Truck Stop #8315 at 3401 S California Ave ..which sells bio!

So, this locator cannot be trusted for (non bio) highway diesel supply information. However, it could be a nifty resource. You can sort in various ways and current fuel pricing appears to be shown..If you click on a station name then detailed info appears along with a phone #. You can plan a trip with stations noted along the way or find fueling stations with showers, Wi-Fi, 24 hour service and of course oversized parking spots for our TDI's...no door dings.

I took a look at GasPrices.Mapquest and it's interesting that although they list seperate search catagories for diesel or biodiesel. The diesel listing includes all the Speedways and Thorntons (which we know... some, if not all sell bio) and the biodiesel catagory lists almost nobody with the exception of Fleece. So...I guess mapquest is as confused about what's really at the stations as we are. Mapquest is another unreliable locator that cannot be trusted for (non bio) highway diesel supply information. It could be a resource. There are phone #'s listed. So, again you could call ahead and see if the attendant knows the answers.

Or there's GasBuddy-ChicagoGasPrices that also has a diesel search engine which lumps diesel with bio-diesel. You get the price but still don't know what you're buying....But could be a resource as long as you verified diesel grade before fueling. And.. there's an 'Iphone app' for GasBuddy-by "Bottle Rocket" r2.0 just released June 17th. However, GasBuddy is another unreliable locator that cannot be trusted for (non-bio) highway diesel supply information. BYW..GasBuddy is what VWoA put on their TDI website for us to use as a highway diesel fuel locator.......they (VWoA) also put on a disclaimer (of course).
.
I guess my question to you on this thread is....Should I leave these links posted here as cautionary resources for us, or should I just delete my whole post because the links are not safe-carefree (non bio) listings. Please let me know if I should delete my post or not. How do you feel? :confused:
 
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Jetta09Chicago

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Fuel Testing Update and a New Concern

Here is an update on the BP, Meijer and Mobil diesel samples I submitted for analytic testing. The fuel engineer received the samples, but unfortunately one of the bottles had leaked, so we will only receive results on two of the products.

To my disappointment, he stated that these samples had the visual appearance of biodiesel, even though the fuel was supposed to be non-bio. The lab testing is needed to determine this definitively and will be conducted after the holiday.

Based on his comment, I am feeling very concerned. My car now has roughly 9,300 miles, and I check the oil level at every fill-up. The oil level has always been constantly at the top of the "normal" range, never going beyond. However, as a layperson, I feel that the viscosity appears to have become thinner over time.

So here is my question. If I have been using mislabeled biodiesel, and the fuel has diluted the oil, would the oil level rise ABOVE the normal range on the dipstick? Or could it stay within the normal range and still be diluted, with excess oil in the crankcase not registering on the dipstick?
 

PalosParked

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Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Jetta09Chicago said:
To my disappointment, he stated that these samples had the visual appearance of biodiesel, even though the fuel was supposed to be non-bio. The lab testing is needed to determine this definitively and will be conducted after the holiday.

Based on his comment, I am feeling very concerned. My car now has roughly 9,300 miles, and I check the oil level at every fill-up. The oil level has always been constantly at the top of the "normal" range, never going beyond. However, as a layperson, I feel that the viscosity appears to have become thinner over time.

So here is my question. If I have been using mislabeled biodiesel, and the fuel has diluted the oil, would the oil level rise ABOVE the normal range on the dipstick? Or could it stay within the normal range and still be diluted, with excess oil in the crankcase not registering on the dipstick?
Jetta09, I had an oil analysis done Blackstone-labs when I was deciding on my oil change interval. One of the things that they measured was for fuel in the oil. If you are really concerned, the oil analysis is pretty quickly done by blackstone and the full test costs $22.50 (+ another $10.00 for the TBN if you want it). You can go online and get an oil collecting bottle from them. (I have a couple extra empty Blackstone oil collection bottles. If you are in a hurry, then IM me and I'll give you one)

You are pretty close to an oil change interval anyway. Why not have the test done for your peace of mind. Whomever changes your oil can obtain a sample of your oil for you.

FWIW, Dealer filled my TDI with bio at delivery. I didn't show fuel in my oil when it was tested at 5600 miles. I also have not had to top off and my oil levels remained fine.
I hope this helps you
 
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nibw

Member
Joined
May 19, 2009
Location
Richmond
TDI
JSW
Fantastic thread. Any results closer to downtown proper? New TDI JSW owner in the Old Irving neighborhood.
 

BTL

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Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Location
'Burbs of Chicago
TDI
2013 PGM Jetta TDI Premium DSG
I would not base a ton on visual experience...just my opinion.

I know Meijer fuel has a lot of marketing attached to it, and I am sure they would advertise bio if it was bio. The rest, well, maybe a crap shoot.
 

PalosParked

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Help us expand our listing of Chicago area non bio highway diesel fuel locations

nibw said:
Fantastic thread. Any results closer to downtown proper? New TDI JSW owner in the Old Irving neighborhood.
nibw, Welcome and Thank you for joining the thread! Always good to have another set of eyes and ears out there gathering information.

My point....it's us that really need your help in expanding our group list of non bio diesel fuel locations. Please let us know what you find as you fill up.

Where are you getting your diesel now? Try finding a new diesel fuel location while driving around or by using one of the general diesel locators (see my post #105 ) in your driving area. Then verify first hand what grade diesel they provide. (You can't trust the locators information alone.) If the pumps are labeled bio 6-20%, then theyre definately out. If not labeled then you should still verify by asking an attendant..preferably a manager to confirm the grade. If you're bold enough, ask and confirm with their diesel distributor or check delivery paperwork.

Check out the BP's, Shells, Name brands first. Let us know what you find so we can add your listing to the thread posting and thank you!
 

BTL

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Location
'Burbs of Chicago
TDI
2013 PGM Jetta TDI Premium DSG
Like it's been stated here, Feece sells low bio, B1, at their retail locations. Not really a good location for me, but I might just try them if I feel like going for a ride one night.....I bet it's quality fuel!
 

BTL

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Location
'Burbs of Chicago
TDI
2013 PGM Jetta TDI Premium DSG
Also..I plan to combat any bio issues I may have by changing the oil every 5k. So, even If I unknowingly get a higher batch of bio from time to time, I am not risking any real damage by changing more frequently.
 

Jetta09Chicago

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Nibw, we're glad you're here! We need more people located in the city.

I found a Mobil station on Irving Park Road, just east of the Kennedy (I-90) that sells diesel. At the time I checked, there was no biodiesel sticker on the pump, which is promising. When I went inside to ask, the girl at the counter had no clue. You might want to check that place out, as I believe it is near you. Let us know if you find someone knowledgeable who can confirm the fuel is non-bio. Thanks!
 

Jetta09Chicago

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
PalosParked and BTL, thanks a lot for your suggestions. I am concerned enough that I will probably conduct a used oil analysis, and I agree I may need to go with a more frequent oil change interval.
 

b4black

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Location
IL
TDI
1998 Jetta blue
Jetta09Chicago said:
To my disappointment, he stated that these samples had the visual appearance of biodiesel, even though the fuel was supposed to be non-bio. The lab testing is needed to determine this definitively and will be conducted after the holiday.
There's no way you can look at a diesel fuel and tell it has biodiesel. I would bet all three were not B11.
 
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goodlylike

Member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
I live downtown Chicago and was in search of the lowest priced ULSD in the downtown area. The BP station at Lasalle and Ontario was .30 cheaper than the Mobil at Halsted and Division (which I later found sells 5-20 bio ULSD). The pumps at Lasalle and Ontario were labeled LSD and although it’s pretty much a given that all BP diesel is ULSD I thought perhaps being downtown Chicago this station was late to the switch. To get an answer I asked the attendant on duty.

The exchange went something like this…


Me: Your diesel pump says it contains LSD and not ULSD is that correct?
Him: Yes, ULSD.
Me: So the pump is mislabeled as LSD, but is in fact ULSD?
Him: No, the label says LSD.
Me: Right, the label says LSD, is that what’s in the tank?
Him: Yes, ULSD.
Me: What type of fuel does that pump dispense?
Him: gas….

I called BP and left a message asking for info on their Illinois fuels. I got a call back a week later. During that week before the call I spoke to a sales rep at the VW dealership downtown. They’re located about 3 blocks from the this BP station. He said they use that station to fill the one or two TDI’s they have all the time. This made me extremely anxious to hear back from BP as to what was actually in the tank. The lady with BP corporate assured me that location sells ULSD and ULSD only. Her statement was that all Illinois BP product supplied stations carry ULSD #2 with no Bio blended at all. Jobber supplied BP stations could have anything, but their pumps should still be labled accordingly. She asked for the address of the station and said she would be in contact with them regarding their labels. Stopped by a couple weeks later and they had new yellow ULSD stickers.

I can also confirm the Shell at Armitage and I-90/94 has pumps labeled 5-20 bio ULSD as does the Citgo at Ashland and Addison.

Straight ULSD is kind of tough to find in the city.........
 

PalosParked

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Aug 16, 2008
Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
goodlylike said:
The exchange went something like this…

Me: Your diesel pump says it contains LSD and not ULSD is that correct?
Him: Yes, ULSD.
Me: So the pump is mislabeled as LSD, but is in fact ULSD?
Him: No, the label says LSD.
Me: Right, the label says LSD, is that what’s in the tank?
Him: Yes, ULSD.
Me: What type of fuel does that pump dispense?
Him: gas….

......
Goodly...It's sad that you had to have the conversation...but your portrayal of the conversation with the service station attendant had me rolling on the floor laughing. ....I think I heard that one..Bob Newhart..the service station attendant, right? :D or was it Abbott and Costello?

Thank you very much for the post, the diesel fuel (non-bio) location and the laugh.
 
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Jetta09Chicago

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
goodlylike said:
The lady with BP corporate assured me that location sells ULSD and ULSD only. Her statement was that all Illinois BP product supplied stations carry ULSD #2 with no Bio blended at all./quote]

This could be a valuable lead! I wonder if that BP representative happens to have a list of BP product-supplied stations she could share. If so, this would be great information and would help expand our list.
 

nibw

Member
Joined
May 19, 2009
Location
Richmond
TDI
JSW
Hah. Had a similar conversation yesterday at the Lake Forest oasis on 94. The Mobil there sells Diesel with no label whatsoever. I asked the attendant if it is even LSD or ULSD. Just asking such a technically elaborate question seemed to cause a major malfunction. Finally the manager there said he's 'pretty sure' that it's LSD. I did remind him that law requires a label regardless.

Mostly been making a lot of road trips with the car. So far have not filled in downtown Chicago area. On the way to Milwaukee I stopped at Belivedere and Green Bay Road. Both stations (Speedway and Citgo) sell Bio only. Finally found a Citgo further up 41 at the Gurnee Truck Stop (2301 N Highway 41) which actually has 2 pumps one Bio and one regular Diesel.

So far looking around Chicago I'm only seeing Bio blends. I'll check that Mobil and let you know.
 

BTL

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Location
'Burbs of Chicago
TDI
2013 PGM Jetta TDI Premium DSG
I love my car, don't think otherwise. It just bothers me that VW would build a vehicle that is not at all geared toward the normal bio blends we see. Especially in Illinois, and other midwest states, it is hard to find dino. It's making me worry that some day I won't be able to find dino. Then what???

Thank god for Meijer in my area....
 
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