BiTurbo TDI MAF upgrade

eddie_1

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Dec 27, 2004
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Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
Hi, Can someone tell me how the 313HP BiTDI MAF is connected? I have 3 pins on the BPP MAF. With just the ignition on, I measured Signal (5V) Pin1, GND Pin2 and 12V on Pin3. I believe the BiTDI MAF has 4 wires? I did the MAF linearization but somehow the pins locations seem to be different. A pinout of the BiTDI MAF would be great but even a picture like this one would help.

 

eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
Basically pin 1 and 2 needed swapping. Did a MAF log, numbers make sense now. BiTDI MAF is also only 3 pin.

Biturbo MAF:



BPP MAF:
 
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[486]

Top Post Dawg
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MN
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02 golf ALH
I thought the big biturbo MAF was frequency rather than 0-5v?
 

eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
I thought the big biturbo MAF was frequency rather than 0-5v?
Actually it looks like the 2 sensors are not directly compatible. I am getting the bad MAF triggered check engine light. I am not sure if they are voltage vs frequency different or both frequency and work to different specs. The older voltage MAFs like on the ALH were 4 wire but both of these are 3 wire. But the ECUs are different. On my pre-facelift A6 EDC16 is used and afterwards, with facelift, EDC17 is in use, such that the signal receiving interface could be different. In any case the 900Kg/H and the 1400Kg/H (Biturbo) MAFs on the facelift only differ in housing and share the same MAF element. In other words the different MAF characteristic is only from the housing. So the principle for my prefacelift MAF element should also roughly hold. Unfortunately they mirrored the plugin direction for the facelift MAF so I have to kind of adapt it into place, but not a big issue.
 

Boyka

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May 28, 2013
Location
Galiza
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Audi a4 avant 3.0 tdi Remap
I subscribe, what reference does the piece have? regards
 

eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
I subscribe, what reference does the piece have? regards
Hi, the BITDI MAF has the reference 059906461Q for the housing including the MAF element. The MAF element itself has an additional reference 420133471. However this same element is also used with the housing reference 059906461N, which is the smaller diameter housing for the non Biturbo V6 tdi application. The use of the above element started I believe with MY 2009. In the Audi A6 the smaller diameter was used for example on the CDYA engine and the bigger diameter on the biturbo CGQB engine. Interchanging between CDYA and CGQB is no problem, because essentially only the housing is changed.

In my case I have a 2008 car with the 2,7tdi BPP engine. For this car the reference is 059906461K. Here the MAF element itself does not show a separate part number. The MAF element looks very similar to the post-2009 element but does not seem to be immediately compatible. In the pics below you can see my BPP and CGQB MAFs side by side. (BPP left, CGQB right)

PS: By the way these are all Hitachi parts.







 
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Boyka

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May 28, 2013
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Galiza
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Audi a4 avant 3.0 tdi Remap
Hi, thank you very much, my engine is 2012 v6 3.0 tdi 204cvs code CLA which do you think would be the corresponding parts?
Regards.
 
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eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
Hi, thank you very much, my engine is 2012 v6 3.0 tdi 204cvs code CLA which do you think would be the corresponding parts?
Regards.
Which MAF do you have? If it is 059906461N then the bigger 059906461Q will work. You still need to adapt the hose 'Q' version 059129629B into the turbo. Your setup could be a bit different to mine. See my approach here.
 

Boyka

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May 28, 2013
Location
Galiza
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Audi a4 avant 3.0 tdi Remap
I do not know where to see the reference.
From the mobile I can not upload the photos, I'm a bit clumsy with that sorry.
 
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Boyka

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May 28, 2013
Location
Galiza
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Audi a4 avant 3.0 tdi Remap
Audi confirm that the reference is 059906461N
Thank you very much, it has helped me a lot.
Greetings.
 
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eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
059906461N if i got it right, this should not be a problem for 400hp
its the same i have on the 2011 ccwa engine
What a lot of people do is switch to MAP based fueling as opposed to MAF based to overcome MAF restriction at higher rpm. In the past I found the drivability and response better/smoother with MAF based if MAF limit can be overcome. But I think there is an additional dependency between boost and MAF. You cannot just keep pushing more boost through a narrower opening. Even with same fueling and boost I noticed loss of haze after putting the bigger MAF.
 

Pittdawg

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Location
Los Angeles
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2014 Audi Q5 TDI
What a lot of people do is switch to MAP based fueling as opposed to MAF based to overcome MAF restriction at higher rpm. In the past I found the drivability and response better/smoother with MAF based if MAF limit can be overcome. But I think there is an additional dependency between boost and MAF. You cannot just keep pushing more boost through a narrower opening. Even with same fueling and boost I noticed loss of haze after putting the bigger MAF.
So swapping a BITDI maf onto my 2014 TDI (engine code CPNB) is plug and play? No re-tuning of the ecu is required?
 

Macradiators.com

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Romania
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2.0 CR 360hp
your new maf sensor needs to be written in the file to be working.
why do you upgrade it in the first place? you maxed out the original one?
 

Pittdawg

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Location
Los Angeles
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2014 Audi Q5 TDI
your new maf sensor needs to be written in the file to be working.
why do you upgrade it in the first place? you maxed out the original one?
Not sure if it's maxed out but has to be close, I'm pushing slightly more hp than the 313 hp BITDI and I doubt Audi would have enlarged the TDI Maf from 80mm to 88mm if there was no need or benefit to it.
 

eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
Not sure if it's maxed out but has to be close, I'm pushing slightly more hp than the 313 hp BITDI and I doubt Audi would have enlarged the TDI Maf from 80mm to 88mm if there was no need or benefit to it.
It mainly helps if you are pushing power beyond 4000rpm. Do you have a dyno/power plot?

If the logging for IQ is setup in the tune, you can see (using vcds) if requested vs actual IQ is being limited. That's when the bigger MAF helps, usually helping at higher rpms.
 
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Pittdawg

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May 28, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2014 Audi Q5 TDI
It mainly helps if you are pushing power beyond 4000rpm. Do you have a dyno/power plot?

If the logging for IQ is setup in the tune, you can see (using vcds) if requested vs actual IQ is being limited. That's when the bigger MAF helps, usually helping at higher rpms.
I don't as all the dynos nearby are only 2wd! But it certainly seems to fall flat in the higher rpm range.
 

altz1

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A8 4H 4.2TDI, Cayenne 4.2TDI, 6.0TDI
Log the MAF output signal under max load and rev range and you will see if it is maxed out.
 

hatemi

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Aug 25, 2005
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Finland
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Audi A6 4F 3.0TDI
What's the max? I've glanced at it on my torque app but the values don't really mean anything to me.
I have a feeling that you allready have the same MAF as bitdi. At least 2015+ a6 have those. Check what number you have on the semsor body [emoji6]

Lähetetty minun BLA-L29 laitteesta Tapatalkilla
 

Pittdawg

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Joined
May 28, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2014 Audi Q5 TDI
I have a feeling that you allready have the same MAF as bitdi. At least 2015+ a6 have those. Check what number you have on the semsor body [emoji6]

Lähetetty minun BLA-L29 laitteesta Tapatalkilla
Darkside indicated only the BITDI engines have the 88mm MAF
 
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