DPF bad?

Tankbuster

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2016
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Jetta TDI
I think I'm going to get the TDI fix for my 2011 TDI with 145000k miles, but when I was washing my car I stuck my finger up the tail pipe and wiped it. Every time my finger would have black ash, smut like stuff on my finger tip. Never have had a lick of trouble or any engine lights or sign of any engine problems so does this mean my DPF has a crack or is going bad? If it is going bad would VW reject a fix until I got a new DPF. Thanks for any help.
 

craigldavis

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2003
TDI
2009 JSW M/T; 2014 Q7
Based on what others have experienced as long as you have no CEL (with no pending and no permanent codes) I’d say there’s no reason for them to make you replace the DPF before getting the fix.

If it was mine and I planned to keep it, I’d get the fix before the DPF causes a CEL. Then you have a warranty for quite some time if it fails.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Get it scannned first and save it so you know exactly what if anything is already there. Find someone with VCDS. Then get the fix done as soon as possible if nothing shows up.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Your DPF is cracked. It has not yet caused the EGR tube to clog up, thus rendering the low pressure EGR inoperative.

I would take it in and get the fix done, and play dumb. Hopefully they will just do what they need to do, but the tech will most certainly know when he takes the deNox catalyst loose, as it will be black inside. Normally, the diesel's exhaust post DPF is squeaky clean (like, you can look INSIDE the exhaust and see shiny metal, they are THAT clean).
 

skycrane

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Location
NoVA
TDI
'12 Audi A3, 96 E300, 87 300SDL
the morning you bring it in, you need to clear and erase all the codes on the car. Ive already got the " fix" done. and my tailpipe was so bad that even brake cleaner wouldnt remove it. Also remember they will do any open recalls on the car as well, so that would be the airbag, and O2 flap sensor along with the "fix" so it will take longer than the 3 hrs they said in the paperwork.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Thanks all, for the great information. Any rough estimate's on how long the DPF may last?
What do you mean? It is already broke. :confused: Or do you mean a NEW one? It could last as long as the one you have now, maybe less, maybe more. Previously, the TSB had a software update to help with this, but obviously all that is out the window now.
 

Tankbuster

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2016
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Jetta TDI
What do you mean? It is already broke. :confused: Or do you mean a NEW one? It could last as long as the one you have now, maybe less, maybe more. Previously, the TSB had a software update to help with this, but obviously all that is out the window now.[/QUOTE



I should have asked in more detailed. I was hoping to wait as long as possible for the fix or sell back in 2018, but with my bad DPF now I'm wondering if I need to get the TDI down to the dealer as fast as possible or I would be OK driving it another month or two before check engine lights started showing up? Does past experience show when the DPF crack starts you don't have long before check engine lights come on?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
It will eventually plug the low pressure EGR tube up. Then you will get a DTC for insufficient EGR flow, and the MIL will come on. How long that takes is anyone's guess. Driving habits, how bad your DPF is cracked, etc. could all weigh into that. You can put a new EGR tube on if it clogs, and drive until it clogs again.

If it were me, and you as of yet have no EGR flow faults, I would get to the dealer ASAP and hope they just do the fix and turn a blind eye to your cracked DPF. Then once the EGR tube clogs up (and it will), the DPF will be under your new extended warranty, and the *should* replace it for you at no charge.
 

In the Red

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Location
Wilmington,NC
TDI
2011 TDI Wagon
I would get the fix done quick. As more cars are fixed and VW has to replace dpf's that were not checked they will become more careful in which cars they fix
 

Keith63

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI Premium; 1974 Karmin Ghia; 1973 Super Beetle
Soot

I had the fix applied to my 2011 TDI on August 15, 2017, the tailpipes were always sqeaky clean prior to fix. Now I put my finger in the pipes and they come out black. No CEL has illuminated. Is the DPF failing? Is the DPF covered by the posy fix warranty? Should I take it in or wait until CELL illiminates?
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
I had the fix applied to my 2011 TDI on August 15, 2017, the tailpipes were always sqeaky clean prior to fix. Now I put my finger in the pipes and they come out black. No CEL has illuminated. Is the DPF failing? Is the DPF covered by the posy fix warranty? Should I take it in or wait until CELL illiminates?

I would wait for the light. you should be covered.

do you have a VCDS? (or plan to get one?)
 

Tankbuster

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2016
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Jetta TDI
I had the fix applied to my 2011 TDI on August 15, 2017, the tailpipes were always sqeaky clean prior to fix. Now I put my finger in the pipes and they come out black. No CEL has illuminated. Is the DPF failing? Is the DPF covered by the posy fix warranty? Should I take it in or wait until CELL illiminates?
Keep us updated if ever the engine lights come on. Would be interested how many miles it takes.
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Mike, I do have VCDS.
Keith,

I started a thread trying to figure out how sooty tailpipes translate into a Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL), and how to track the progress of this error condition:


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=445921



I would be interested in what you see on your engine for basic settings 78

First question is if the post-fix engine controller software still operates these basic settings.

second question is how the pressure readings across the new design Low pressure EGR filter come out.

And the third question is how these pressure readings translate into an error logged, and then to set the pending and stored OBD errors.
 

Tankbuster

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2016
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Jetta TDI
Your DPF is cracked. It has not yet caused the EGR tube to clog up, thus rendering the low pressure EGR inoperative.

I would take it in and get the fix done, and play dumb. Hopefully they will just do what they need to do, but the tech will most certainly know when he takes the deNox catalyst loose, as it will be black inside. Normally, the diesel's exhaust post DPF is squeaky clean (like, you can look INSIDE the exhaust and see shiny metal, they are THAT clean).
All my paper work is ready and getting the fix real soon so can I check, clean or replace my EGR tube or the deNox catalyst before I take to the dealer for the fix. If I can were are they and is it a easy check, clean or replace. My 2011 TDI has been parked in my garage to not add any mileage or keep any engine lights from coming on. Thanks for any help.
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
The EGR tube and DPF are under the car, behind the engine, and packed in pretty good. the exit end of the DPF is visible when the deNOX cat is removed, which is why oilhammer mentioned it.

there are also quite a few sensors that are installed, and are tricky to change if you are not experienced in these things.

Good advice has been provided here.

since you have no lights lit, you should be ok,

but if you want to be sure, you can find a person with a real VCDS, ask nice, and check for any stored codes. If you do have some stored P0401 error codes, it would not be too far out of line to reset the codes, and then drive to the dealer.

If you plan to keep the car (which it seems so) the purchase of a real VCDS is worthwhile, if you want to learn how to use it. if you decide on doing this, we can walk you through the checks.
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Yes.

https://www.vwpartscenter.net/oem-parts/volkswagen-tube-1k0253120/?c=Zz1leGhhdXN0LXN5c3RlbSZzPWV4aGF1c3QtY29tcG9uZW50cyZpPTkyNzg3NDU1JnI9bGF5ZXJfMTImYT12b2xrc3dhZ2VuJm89Z29sZiZ5PTIwMTEmdD10ZGkmZT0yLTBsLWw0LWRpZXNlbA%3D%3D



VW parts info calls this a tube, it contains a fine screen and provides flow of exhaust after the DPF to the low pressure EGR cooler and control valve. this low pressure EGR path is monitored periodically for pressure drop. when a DPF cracks and enough soot enters this part, it increased pressure drop is detected and causes a P0401 error.



the 2.0 SSP calls it a Low Pressure EGR Filter
 
Last edited:

Tankbuster

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2016
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Jetta TDI
Why doesn't VW or another company make a DPF that can be easy to take out of the car to clean like on the big diesel trucks?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Why doesn't VW or another company make a DPF that can be easy to take out of the car to clean like on the big diesel trucks?
Several reasons:

1: the standards a passenger car must meet are different than what a big truck must meet, which can make the frequency of regens and the need for eventual cleanout very different. As is the load placed on the engines. An OTR truck's "normal" oepration would be like driving a Jetta around with 5k pounds hooked to its butt all day, every day. Most Jetta owners do not do that.

2: packaging, a small car does not have nearly the real estate available to have an easily accessible DPF hanging alongside a giant frame rail easily exposed by removal of a few screws like a big truck can.

3: cost vs. benefit, as in most cases a passenger car's DPF can go MUCH longer than a big truck, so easy access is less of an issue anyway.

4: in the case of CBEA/CJAA TDI engine DPF problems, remember these rarely "clog up" and need to be cleaned (replaced), but instead internally crack and allow unfiltered exhaust past them and out the tail pipe. Of all the DPFs I have replaced on these cars, 95% of them were due to cracking and leaking, not clogging up. And of the ones that got clogged up beyond what a manual initiated regen could save, I know for sure two of them had been using the incorrect motor oil.
 
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