Calling out SOS on 97 tdi

hummelmike · Jan 18, 2016

This diesel is killing me cant figure out why she wont start up. Had changed the fuel filter a month ago but had run ok since but has been hard to start since I bought her. She smokes bad while cranking and sometimes will start just not dependable. Any help would be grateful thanks and hope to get her back on the road. Live 20 miles south of Saint Louis

ketchupshirt88 · Jan 18, 2016

could be any one of several things:
timing being off... too retarded?
air bleeding into fuel system
fuel shut off solenoid
couple kinds of electrical issues

heres the no start thread, but it covers everything from 1996 to present so alot of stuff that may not pertain to you. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199398

or just hit up oilhammer, he's right there in st louis. more TDI knowledge in his head than i could even imagine.
https://www.google.com/search?q=oilhammer+st.+louis&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

hummelmike · Jan 18, 2016

I have checked almost everything I can like fuel lines also seals and gaskets have bled the system fuel that is sometimes she hits and starts but most the time just cranks and smokes without lighting off. If oilhammer is still on here can he contact me. Thanks

ketchupshirt88 · Jan 18, 2016

oilhammer is on here all the time but not usually in the A3/B4 section with our borderline antique cars. that link above has his shop's number or you can search his name and PM him but he may just tell you to bring it in... he has a business to run after all.

considering it has done it since you got it, which i assume includes summer when it should start easily... and you say the fuel system is good, id look at retarded timing but don't rule out something in the fuel system that was overlooked.

first things first though, you need to get it scanned, preferably by a VW specific tool(vagcom). that could reveal something super simple to fix or at least put you on the right track.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jan 18, 2016

Symptoms sound like retarded timing to me. Find someone with VCDS and check it, and advance it if needed. Easy to do.

hummelmike · Jan 18, 2016

Thanks I have a VAG scanner and no codes but no VCDS. Hoping to get someone to help me with it this week but damn cold here now, just seems like shes not getting fuel? Thanks for the help and will contact oilhammer if all else fails.

JETaah · Jan 19, 2016

Could be the dreaded crank pulley bolt coming loose.

If and when you start it, take a reading of the injection timing with VCDS.
If it is OK (midway or to the top of the green line on the graph) AND the camshaft is in time it will probably be something else. But, If the injection timing and the camshaft are retarded relative to the crank then that pulley bolt needs to be checked to see if it worked itself loose and is causing the crank pulley to bounce back and forth. That in turn will chew not only the pulley but the end of the crankshaft.

It should take an enormous amount of torque to loosen that bolt.
If it does not feel loose with a 24" breaker bar on it, it is most likely OK and you have other things to look at.

If you want to see if it is getting fuel, pull the glow plugs and crank it. You should see a mist of fuel coming out of the glow plug holes for evidence.

Steve Addy · Jan 19, 2016

You're so close to St Louis I'd just PM oilhammer and be done with it if you can't get it going yourself.

Steve

hummelmike · Jan 19, 2016

Thanks contact has been made an setting things up after our snow storm this week. Thanks for all the help

ToddA1 · Jan 19, 2016

Glow plugs working? If it starts and warms up, is it an easy restart when warm?

-Todd

hummelmike · Jan 20, 2016

Yes plugs work but think Im going to replace plus its been 12 the last couple of days thinking fuel might be jelled.

ToddA1 · Jan 20, 2016

Unless you're using fuel purchased in the summer, I doubt it's gelled.

-Todd

hummelmike · Jan 22, 2016

Does anyone know how to set injector pump without running to close to were it should be?

ToddA1 · Jan 22, 2016

Setting static timing, should get it to start. Maybe loosen the IP and advance a bit.

How do you know the GPs are good? Are you testing each one or pulling resistance?

-Todd

hummelmike · Jan 23, 2016

Pulled resist tried to get timing done but couldn't find all the bolt holding injector pump any help appreciated.

ToddA1 · Jan 23, 2016

And you're definitely getting voltage at the harness? There are 2 leads that go into the harness. 1 lead for 2 GPs.

3 bolts at the front sprocket, I at the rear of the pump. You may need to loosen the lines to get the pump to move, but try it without. If it starts, you'll need to loosen then tighten the lines to relieve stress.

-Todd

hummelmike · Jan 24, 2016

We must be talking about different IP this pump only has one bolt 22m on front cant find all 4 bolts holding it down, also with the harness is this the fuse panel we are talking about? Thanks

vanbcguy · Jan 24, 2016

hummelmike said:
We must be talking about different IP this pump only has one bolt 22m on front cant find all 4 bolts holding it down, also with the harness is this the fuse panel we are talking about? Thanks

2 of the 3 front bolts are accessed through the holes in the sprocket. I believe all the IP bolts are 13mm.

The glow plug harness is the black thing connecting the car's wiring to the glow plugs on the head.

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk

JETaah · Jan 24, 2016

If you turn the IP pulley into position where you can insert the the alignment pin through the small hole in the pulley into the IP bracket, the 2 nuts will be inside the top rear hole ("north-west" position if you are facing the pulley) and on the bottom hole of the pulley.
The other 2 are bolts.

hummelmike · Jan 24, 2016

Ok I only can find one on the pump, Am I missing one? Thanks

twentyeight · Jan 24, 2016

I literally just advanced the timing on my smoky and difficult to start B4 to clear up the problem. The cover's still off so I'll go take some photos for you.

It's more work to upload them here, so I just made a page: http://andrewclink.com/b4-injection-pump

hummelmike · Jan 24, 2016

Page didn't work, hope to see soon. Thanks

twentyeight · Jan 24, 2016

Oops, forgot to publish it. Try again.

chz17 · Jan 24, 2016

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hummelmike · Jan 24, 2016

Thank you sir now I can get timing set.

hummelmike · Feb 7, 2016

Looking for a glow plug harness near St Louis area. Thanks

john.jackson9213 · Feb 7, 2016

hummelmike said:
Looking for a glow plug harness near St Louis area. Thanks

New about $60/70 from IDParts or BoraParts/Cascade German

twentyeight · Feb 7, 2016

I made one with female bullet connectors (they fit snuggly on glow plug tips), some nice heavy wire, and wrapped it with electrical tape as aesthetically as I could. Works a treat.

That said, the newly rebuilt motor started easily in ~30°F weather with minimal smoke before the glow plugs were wired up, so if you're hoping it will fix your hard starting problem you may be disappointed. For clarity's sake, this isn't the same engine I referenced above.

hummelmike · Feb 13, 2016

Thanks how did you wire up this setup? Im working threw this slowly since driving the tdi Golf again

twentyeight · Feb 24, 2016

Sorry, I didn't see this reply.

Mine is based around a '96 wiring harness, so I just wired them all together and soldered/heatshrunk to what was left of the original harness after I cut it off. If I had thought about it before I did all the work, I would have de-pinned the glow plug harness from the orb of death while it was easy to get to.

I think the '97 (and '98 AHU) actually does need the two halves to be measured separately, but I don't have any of those so I've never looked into it very far. If you just copy the harness that comes off you'll be fine.

Calling out SOS on 97 tdi

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