92 4Runner V6 ALH Swap

davidm2232 · Nov 17, 2015

Starting my build thread for my ALH 4Runner swap. This will be a full electronic swap retaining the ECU, stock sensors, etc. I am building off several people's swaps so if you see some of your information, thank you and feel free to chime in. So far, the TDI has been pulled from a 2000 Jetta with a blow automatic. I have ordered the Acme Toyota V6 kit. The kit comes with a flywheel for the newer 3.4L V6 so the clutch will also be for that motor. I am looking at ~320 ft-lbs from the TDI by the time I'm done so am going with a Stage 2 Endurance clutch from Southbend. Clutch is rated at 400 ft-lb so we should be all set. Clutch part number: K16077-HD-TZ. Ordered a 2in body lift from 4crawler to help with clearance. Will also space up trans/tcase 2in.

I am also following Brantley Smith's build at http://tdi4runner.blogspot.com/ and will be using several of his ideas.
Motor mounts:

http://tdi4runner.blogspot.com/2012/11/engine-mount-for-tdi-is-done.html
He is using square tube to run across the frame rails. I plan on using heavy angle iron to make bolting in motor mounts easier. I will likley use square tube instead of round tube for the triangular portion of the mount as that is what I have.

I ordered the V6 passat mounts. I got 2 shipped for $40 off Ebay.
PN: 8D0199379K

I got the wiring diagrams cleaned up and will adapt them to my installation as I go. Here they are as of now:

I will be using the Toyota cluster as well as a few Aux gauges (Boost, EGT, etc)

I have a few questions:
Can I get an output from the ECU for GP Light, Tach, and CEL?

Will the toyota VSS signal work for ECU cruise?

Any recomendations on a turbo that will clear the starter? (I'm thinking 2260 or smaller with an ebay manifold)

My engine builder (2000jettatdifast) wants to deck the block and run higher compression for better cold starts and MPG. What are your thoughts? I plan on doing rings,bearings, upgraded rods, head studs. I need this thing to start at -20 without being plugged in. I was also thinking dual batteries if there is room.

I'll keep the updates coming as they happen. Might not get to pulling the v6 out of the 4runner until next week.

Some pics of the 4runner and TDI donor as well as wiring diagrams:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By2Xx3gX67sWVHhyQ0J3RFFDNmc/view?usp=sharing

davidm2232 · Nov 17, 2015

What is the best service to upload pictures to? I've always used google drive but the images are not embedding in the posts.

tditoyota · Nov 17, 2015

I always use imgur. You can upload without an account if you want (top left on webpage), but it's really convenient having all of your pictures saved to your account, so I recommend just starting an account.

jimbote · Nov 17, 2015

cool build and i also plan on building a second gen runner in the not so distant future.... be sure to center and dowel pin your acme adapter plate or you will have issues

davidm2232 · Nov 17, 2015

Jimbote, what do you mean by dowel pin and centering the adapter plate? I don't have it in my hands so maybe it's obvious once I see it?

Hasenwerk · Nov 17, 2015

davidm2232 said:
What is the best service to upload pictures to? I've always used google drive but the images are not embedding in the posts.

I use Google Apps, I just open "Photos", select the photo I want, right click (Windows) "copy image URL" and then select the Image icon in this editor and past the photo and everything works just ducky.

jimbote · Nov 17, 2015

davidm2232 said:
Jimbote, what do you mean by dowel pin and centering the adapter plate? I don't have it in my hands so maybe it's obvious once I see it?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=429695

Hasenwerk · Nov 17, 2015

davidm2232 said:
Starting my build thread for my ALH 4Runner swap. This will be a full electronic swap retaining the ECU, stock sensors, etc. I am building off several people's swaps so if you see some of your information, thank you and feel free to chime in. So far, the TDI has been pulled from a 2000 Jetta with a blow automatic. I have ordered the Acme Toyota V6 kit. The kit comes with a flywheel for the newer 3.4L V6 so the clutch will also be for that motor. I am looking at ~320 ft-lbs from the TDI by the time I'm done so am going with a Stage 2 Endurance clutch from Southbend. Clutch is rated at 400 ft-lb so we should be all set. Clutch part number: K16077-HD-TZ. Ordered a 2in body lift from 4crawler to help with clearance. Will also space up trans/tcase 2in.
I am also following Brantley Smith's build at http://tdi4runner.blogspot.com/ and will be using several of his ideas.
Motor mounts:

Could you not further simplify this an use the original MK4 soft mount as well and delete the two lower mounts? This is what I am going to do with my Ranger TDI as mounts I currently have are designed for the V6 gasoline engine and transmit a lot of vibration into the cab.

jimbote · Nov 17, 2015

Hasenwerk said:
Could you not further simplify this an use the original MK4 soft mount as well and delete the two lower mounts? This is what I am going to do with my Ranger TDI as mounts I currently have are designed for the V6 gasoline engine and transmit a lot of vibration into the cab.

if you did you would then need some sort of torque strut or dogbone low on the engine to control engine torque rotation

davidm2232 · Nov 18, 2015

That's correct. Using a hard mount in the center with two outlying rubber mounts should give the needed stability. Jimbote, I'm completely lost on what I need to do. It looks like you have the transmission torn apart? Not sure I want to jump into that. I emailed Jeff to get his thoughts.

jimbote · Nov 18, 2015

davidm2232 said:
That's correct. Using a hard mount in the center with two outlying rubber mounts should give the needed stability. Jimbote, I'm completely lost on what I need to do. It looks like you have the transmission torn apart? Not sure I want to jump into that. I emailed Jeff to get his thoughts.

Jeff may deny there is an issue or claim "this is the first i've ever heard about it".... best bet is to contact evguy on the forums here and inquire about a v6 toy adapter ... he builds a top notch plate that is correctly centered and doweled from the start .... i'm very doubtful acme will make a move toward correcting the issue as he was alerted to the problem by at least one other member but still continues to sell the same plate

davidm2232 · Nov 18, 2015

I sent him a PM. I think I might be stuck with the Acme kit though. It's supposed to be here by tomorrow

jimbote · Nov 18, 2015

davidm2232 said:
I sent him a PM. I think I might be stuck with the Acme kit though. It's supposed to be here by tomorrow

just read up on centering transmissions to engines, quite a few good guides out there.... it simply has to be done to insure you'll be free from abnormal driveline wear and vibration

davidm2232 · Nov 18, 2015

jimbote said:
just read up on centering transmissions to engines, quite a few good guides out there.... it simply has to be done to insure you'll be free from abnormal driveline wear and vibration

I can probably figure it out. How hard is it to separate the bell housing from the rest of the transmission?

Rockwell · Nov 18, 2015

Just unbolts

davidm2232 · Nov 18, 2015

Ok. So bolt the adapter on, bolt the bell housing on. What do I use to extend the dial indicator on the crank?

I see this:

the dial indicator was mounted to the crank via a ranger flywheel bolt, a short piece of aluminum and a few nuts to lock it all down... a 1/4 threaded rod lock nutted to the aluminum plate positioned the dial indicator inside the input bore of the trans case

dial indicator peeking through the input bearing bore
the dial indicator was mounted to the crank via a ranger flywheel bolt, a short piece of aluminum and a few nuts to lock it all down... a 1/4 threaded rod lock nutted to the aluminum plate positioned the dial indicator inside the input bore of the trans case

I understand all those parts as a whole but how to you ensure that the threaded rod is exactly parallel with the crank? Or does it just need to be close? I would think that when we are correcting thousandths, that it needs to be perfect.

jimbote · Nov 18, 2015

davidm2232 said:
I can probably figure it out. How hard is it to separate the bell housing from the rest of the transmission?

i think what you mean is how to remove the trans case ?... bell unbolts, then the front bearing retainer, remove the input and counter bearing circlips, the bolts from the rear of the tail housing/ t case adapter ... you may have to remove a reverse switch too ... front case should then come off ... it's this bolted to the bell in turn bolted to your adapter that you will use to dial indicate from ...

davidm2232 · Nov 18, 2015

jimbote said:
i think what you mean is how to remove the trans case ?... bell unbolts, then the front bearing retainer, remove the input and counter bearing circlips, the bolts from the rear of the tail housing/ t case adapter ... you may have to remove a reverse switch too ... front case should then come off ... it's this bolted to the bell in turn bolted to your adapter that you will use to dial indicate from ...

Now I'm confused. Does it unbolt or do I have to pull the whole trans apart? I was hoping the bell housing would unbolt from the front of the trans.

jimbote · Nov 18, 2015

front trans case has to come off

turbovan+tdi · Nov 18, 2015

I have a friend building a TDI 4 Runner too, great thread. He has found in all the threads that any aftermarket clutch for a 4 Runner won't hold up to the TDI torque except a stock Aisin clutch. Food for thought.

89vr6 · Nov 18, 2015

turbovan+tdi said:
I have a friend building a TDI 4 Runner too, great thread. He has found in all the threads that any aftermarket clutch for a 4 Runner won't hold up to the TDI torque except a stock Aisin clutch. Food for thought.

reason being that they don't hold up to the torque of the TDI is simply that most adapters aren't centered correctly causing premature clutch failure...

turbovan+tdi · Nov 18, 2015

89vr6 said:
reason being that they don't hold up to the torque of the TDI is simply that most adapters aren't centered correctly causing premature clutch failure...

Could be true but he did a lot of reading and the consensus was, the aftermarket clutch's don't hold, they start slipping in short order. Take it as you will but I doubt the centering has anything to do with the clutch not holding.

JaysinSpaceman · Nov 18, 2015

The centering of the adapter has nil to do with the clutches not holding the torque of the TDi. The misalignment causes premature failure of various parts but it is simply lack of holding power of the Toyota clutches that is the problem. Just not enough friction area. If you do what Jimmy and I did and run a 5vz-fe clutch on a slightly modified 22rte or late 22re flywheel the larger surface area holds the power just fine and you still have a stock pedal feel instead of the uber heavy feel of the 1600+ lb. modified clutches that don't hold anyway.

Jaysin

turbovan+tdi · Nov 18, 2015

JaysinSpaceman said:
The centering of the adapter has nil to do with the clutches not holding the torque of the TDi. The misalignment causes premature failure of various parts but it is simply lack of holding power of the Toyota clutches that is the problem. Just not enough friction area. If you do what Jimmy and I did and run a 5vz-fe clutch on a slightly modified 22rte or late 22re flywheel the larger surface area holds the power just fine and you still have a stock pedal feel instead of the uber heavy feel of the 1600+ lb. modified clutches that don't hold anyway.

Jaysin

Yep, that's what he read.

jimbote · Nov 19, 2015

davidm2232 said:
Now I'm confused. Does it unbolt or do I have to pull the whole trans apart? I was hoping the bell housing would unbolt from the front of the trans.

just want to clarify David, the bell housing does unbolt from the front of the trans case, but then you must remove the front trans case from the rest of the gearbox to get access to it's input bearing bore... an alternative would be to find a junk or spare r150, AR5, AX15 or nv3550 case and use that as your centering jig, this would save you having to tear into your perfectly good r150... check around craigslist and the 4x4/offroad forums for a spare

jimbote · Nov 19, 2015

davidm2232 said:
Ok. So bolt the adapter on, bolt the bell housing on. What do I use to extend the dial indicator on the crank?

I see this:

the dial indicator was mounted to the crank via a ranger flywheel bolt, a short piece of aluminum and a few nuts to lock it all down... a 1/4 threaded rod lock nutted to the aluminum plate positioned the dial indicator inside the input bore of the trans case

dial indicator peeking through the input bearing bore
the dial indicator was mounted to the crank via a ranger flywheel bolt, a short piece of aluminum and a few nuts to lock it all down... a 1/4 threaded rod lock nutted to the aluminum plate positioned the dial indicator inside the input bore of the trans case

I understand all those parts as a whole but how to you ensure that the threaded rod is exactly parallel with the crank? Or does it just need to be close? I would think that when we are correcting thousandths, that it needs to be perfect.

i ditched the 1/4" threaded rod for a 10x1 bicycle rear axle and nut to lock it to the crank ... the dial indicator does not need to be parallel with the crank because as you turn the crank it creates it's own perfectly parallel circle inside the bearing bore ... now all you need to correct for is eccentricity of the bell to the crank ... enlarge the bell housing to adapter holes if needed to get enough movement to "zero" the dial indicator .... once everything is locked down as close to zero as possible place and backweld two dowel pins to the adapter plate as close to 180 degrees apart as you can for accurate reassembly repeatability... hope this helps

davidm2232 · Nov 19, 2015

Are ax-15 for a 4.0 Jeep the same bolt pattern? I have a lot of jeep friends and am sure I can find someone with a spare case. I would be much more comfortable pulling apart a broken trans than my good one.

That makes sense about the concentric circles if you imagine the spinning setup. So basically, just tightly screw in a long bolt to one of the crank holes and then attach the gauge to that? Then spin the motor over? Seems pretty straightforward. So I'm assuming, drill through the transmission into the adapter a hold the size of the dowel pins, then remove the trans and insert dowel pins into the adapter and tack them in?

As far as clutches go, I would say Southbend is the name in performance clutches. We will be using the 5vzfe flywheel and clutch setup. Southbend claims 400 ft-lb and I know many TDIs with South bends that have zero clutch issues.

jimbote · Nov 19, 2015

davidm2232 said:
Are ax-15 for a 4.0 Jeep the same bolt pattern? I have a lot of jeep friends and am sure I can find someone with a spare case. I would be much more comfortable pulling apart a broken trans than my good one.

That makes sense about the concentric circles if you imagine the spinning setup. So basically, just tightly screw in a long bolt to one of the crank holes and then attach the gauge to that? Then spin the motor over? Seems pretty straightforward. So I'm assuming, drill through the transmission into the adapter a hold the size of the dowel pins, then remove the trans and insert dowel pins into the adapter and tack them in?

As far as clutches go, I would say Southbend is the name in performance clutches. We will be using the 5vzfe flywheel and clutch setup. Southbend claims 400 ft-lb and I know many TDIs with South bends that have zero clutch issues.

ax15 is the the 4L jeep transmission... you want to use a locknut because if you screw the bolt all the way until he gets tight youll bottom against the main bearing web ...as far as dowel pins there are already existing holes in the bell housing for dowel pins so I don't recommend drilling new holes

davidm2232 · Nov 19, 2015

Yep, locking nut for sure. So jeep and toyota bolt patterns are the same?

jimbote · Nov 19, 2015

davidm2232 said:
Yep, locking nut for sure. So jeep and toyota bolt patterns are the same?

yes, all the transmissions I listed above have the same bell housing to transmission bolt pattern

92 4Runner V6 ALH Swap

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