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Old January 22nd, 2012, 09:52   #2431
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Because those fueling systems aren't applicable to 4-cylinder diesels at the pressures that VW needs to meet emissions, and because those fueling systems are far more expensive.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 09:54   #2432
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PROVE IT. I'm not convinced.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 09:57   #2433
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How about this, the BMW M57 uses a CP3 family pump, whereas the (4-cylinder, but otherwise identical) M47 in Europe uses a CP4.1 to get 1800 bar, just like VW.

Bosch doesn't have an 1800 bar capable CP3.2, other than the CP3.2+, which isn't suitable for 4-cylinder applications, as I understand

And, as for cost, look up the 1800 bar capable CP4.1 pump for a CBEA or CJAA, it's about $1100 IIRC. Then look up the 1600 bar CP3.2 pump for a Liberty CRD, it's about $2500. Actually, I should look up the previous-gen versus current-gen 3.0 TDI, too, at Euro prices - that's even same manufacturer.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 09:59   #2434
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Fair enough... but what else does BMW use in the CP4 that VW doesn't use? Maybe partnering would be of benefit to VW.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 10:10   #2435
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BMW doesn't sell the 4-cylinder diesels here, though, and the CP4s in VWs aren't blowing up in Europe. So, they could be using the same thing as VW, and it would be fine.

Anyway, the Audi A4 in Europe with a V6 TDI used 059 130 755 S, a CP1 family pump, and then changed to 059 130 755 BK in 2010, a CP4.2 pump. (US-spec versions of the V6 TDI got the BE suffix.)

List price on the S suffix part, according to Impex, in US dollars, is $3693.56.
On the BK suffix part, it's $3730.54.

Looks like, CP1 vs. CP4, I disproved my argument, although I'm surprised they used the CP1 that long. I'll get data on the V8s, though, as well...
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 10:21   #2436
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4.2 V8 TDI used 057130755M before, which appears to be a CP3.3. Listed as $3953.56 on Impex.

Following revisions used in newer models:
057130755S, AC, and AE suffixes, all CP4, all $3953.56

Hrm. I'm wondering if Impex isn't reliable for this...
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 10:25   #2437
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I'd argue that it's the fuel, exacerbated by the design.
Even the VE pumps have been blowing up more often on US ULSD, in ways that they never did before.
A blown VE pump... can be replaced by anyone with a few tools, VCDS, and access to auctions on EGay, for very, very cheap, and it doesn't take out the whole fuel system, plus, it's probably over 10 years or more old.

Just sayin.... even a tooef could untooef a bad, worn out VE37, with a little coaching over the internet by drivbiwire or some other knowledgeable pump guru.

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Old January 22nd, 2012, 10:38   #2438
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If in 180,000 miles I have to replace my DSG, I'm not taking it to the dealer for a $6000 repair.

I've always liked wagons (likely from all those years riding backwards as a kid). The last wagon I had was at the other end of the spectrum. A 1994 Caprice wagon. 350 LT-1. If you read about them you'll see they are noted for the 4L60e going out of them. The tranny was originally designed for lighter cars.

Mine eventually did. 165,000 miles. I didn't take it to the dealer and spend whatever it was they would have charged. $3000? I bought a used one.
I'll bet those DSG transmissions out of TDI's are going to be cheap too, once these cars start dying like flies when the HPFP goes on them out of warranty and the owner needs to pony up 7 to $8000. That will surely have these cars off the road in 7 or 8 years, particularly the 2009's and 2010's with the 1st two iterations of the HPFP.

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Old January 22nd, 2012, 11:02   #2439
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I'll bet those DSG transmissions out of TDI's are going to be cheap too, once these cars start dying like flies when the HPFP goes on them out of warranty and the owner needs to pony up 7 to $8000. That will surely have these cars off the road in 7 or 8 years, particularly the 2009's and 2010's with the 1st two iterations of the HPFP.
No facts so far shows that anything like that will happen. As I pointed out earlier, more and more are showing up for sale with over 100,000 miles.

People will fix any that happen to fail for far less in garages that dont have VW hanging outside the door.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 11:11   #2440
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No facts so far shows that anything like that will happen. As I pointed out earlier, more and more are showing up for sale with over 100,000 miles.

People will fix any that happen to fail for far less in garages that dont have VW hanging outside the door.
Kinda like all those 01M's that were rebuilt outside of the VW logo'ed door?
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 11:29   #2441
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Kinda like all those 01M's that were rebuilt outside of the VW logo'ed door?
I've just got back into diesels after quite a few years. Just briefly, I used to sell VW's from 87 to 95. I bought my first diesel in 82. A Rabbit that already had 150,000 miles on it.

Back when I was selling VW's nobody was interested in these first generation diesels. Gas was cheap. I was buying them for $4-500 wholesale.

I'm not fully aware of the problems the last 15 years but are you speaking about these?

http://www.autotransparts.com/cart.p...t_detail&p=201
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 20:20   #2442
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People will fix any that happen to fail for far less in garages that dont have VW hanging outside the door.
Unless, of course, it's a "Dealer Only" part. The cost of repair could still be quite high.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 21:14   #2443
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Here are some statistics that some could interpret about quality. I looked at the number of TSB's issued each year 2009-2011 for JSW and Audi A4. I picked the JSW becauase I drive one.

JSW; 09- 21, 2010- 20, 2011 - 7
Audi A4; 09 - 60, 2010 - 28, 2011-23

Admittedly this is not perfect. But looking at those numbers I would say that the VW Jetta Sportswagen is of a higher quality than an Audi A4. What do you think?
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 22:35   #2444
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Dogparkguy, it's not as simple as that. To some degree it will depend on your definition of quality, but a TSB doesn't necessarily directly correlate w/ a "problem". Let's also keep in mind that Audis are packed with more tech and more luxury (more to go wrong). The QC standards used to build VW and Audi brands both run under standards such as VDA, ISO 16949, and the VW Formel-Q (in-house standard). They're all very strict standards. I know - I was project manager for the implementation of a quality mgmt system that allowed our company to supply Audi with an engineered wood veneer (Oak Beaufort). The veneer was debuted on the A7.

You also have to account for the demographic, the greater likelihood of complaints from consumers spending $10k to $20k more than a VW, etc.

If you were to look only at subsystem warranty repairs that are common between VW and Audi cars (2.0 TDI or TSI), you'd find they're very similar.
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Old January 24th, 2012, 06:51   #2445
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Dogparkguy, it's not as simple as that. To some degree it will depend on your definition of quality, but a TSB doesn't necessarily directly correlate w/ a "problem". Let's also keep in mind that Audi's are packed with more tech and more luxury (more to go wrong). The QC standards used to build VW and Audi brands both run under VDA, ISO 16949, and a VW in-house standard. They're all very strict standards.

You also have to account for the demographic, the greater likelihood of complaints from consumers spending $10k to $20k more than a VW, etc.

If you were to look only at subsystem warranty repairs that are common between VW and Audi cars (2.0 TDI or TSI), you'd find they're very similar.
I agree with your analysis; there is not a perfect correlation. I should probably look at more car makers.
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