DSG oil change

dzcad90 said:

Ok.. So the service in D-Cell Mekanick's post was the service on my 09 Jetta. Along with those findings, is there any reason to buy 6 litres of the fluid vs. 5 next time?

Not that $15 every 40K is a whole lot, but literally we drained about $25 worth of fluid out of the DSG. 6L in, 1.5 dropped.

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Are you on crack? $25 worth of fluid for 4.5qts?

***

What he found for 4.5 qts is spot on. pretty much. There is some variation. It's minimal.

No, he means $25 worth of new fluid, the 1.5. L that we drained off the top.

jasonTDI said:

Are you on crack? $25 worth of fluid for 4.5qts?

***

What he found for 4.5 qts is spot on. pretty much. There is some variation. It's minimal.

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LOL.. What D-Cell said. I'd be running a parts warehouse if I could get it that cheap.

dzcad90 said:

LOL.. What D-Cell said. I'd be running a parts warehouse if I could get it that cheap.

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Ah! Got it!

You probably noticed the car drives smoother now as well.

hevster1 said:

Now I have only done about 6 but every one I have done takes between 5 and 5.5. Maybe it's just me. I do agree it takes a good 45 minutes to top fill it.

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The benefit of this method is that when you are done filling, all your tools are cleaned, put away, the garage is cleaned and eveything is organized. It's like a forced overhaul with nothing to do but wait for that oil level in the filter housing to drop...

Is everyone sticking to the 40k rotations, or is anyone else shortening them

I'm doing the 40/30/30......rotations. I will modify after I compare the fluid from the third dump with the first two I have saved. I noticed that the second batch was slightly darker than the first batch even with the reduced milage. I figure there are 2-3l of oil that are stuck in there which will make the later rotations have older and older oil on average.

Speaking of which... I only have 3k till my next change. I go thru 1stvwparts for my stuff. I'll have to see if any of the other vendors have come down in price. No one could beat them the last time.

ID parts is around $120 for the kit now IIRC.

Dunno513 said:

The benefit of this method is that when you are done filling, all your tools are cleaned, put away, the garage is cleaned and eveything is organized. It's like a forced overhaul with nothing to do but wait for that oil level in the filter housing to drop...

Is everyone sticking to the 40k rotations, or is anyone else shortening them

I'm doing the 40/30/30......rotations. I will modify after I compare the fluid from the third dump with the first two I have saved. I noticed that the second batch was slightly darker than the first batch even with the reduced milage. I figure there are 2-3l of oil that are stuck in there which will make the later rotations have older and older oil on average.

Speaking of which... I only have 3k till my next change. I go thru 1stvwparts for my stuff. I'll have to see if any of the other vendors have come down in price. No one could beat them the last time.

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Actually I have a trick I use to make it go faster when I fill it from underneath. That way when I start it and let it run I can clean the tools etc. or simply move on to the next job.

D-Cell_Mekanick said:

Ok just finished up a DSG service. I measured what came out and then measured what spilled over. My measurements are not 100% accurate but are good enough for me. We measured ~4.5 liters out and ~4.5 liters in. I certainitly do not see the filter holding .25 of a ltr. maybe .125 at best. I guess next time I will have to measure the weight of a new filter and the used one to see what the volume of oil the filter will actually hold. There was a bit of oil left in the filter housing and some that drained back form the cooler, used the mightyvac to remove that. So all in all I'm happy to report back that we replaced all the fluid that was removed. (And before anyone decides to say I didn't, please conduct your own experiment before you pick mine apart, albeit as unscientific as it was. Used the empty bottles to measure).

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Did you check fluid level when you were done? The reason I ask is, how do you know the trans was full when you started? This not to pick on you at all.Just making sure I understand that you should check it to make sure it is full.

MonsterTDI09 said:

Did you check fluid level when you were done? The reason I ask is, how do you know the trans was full when you started? This not to pick on you at all.Just making sure I understand that you should check it to make sure it is full.

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A. It was a factory fill.

B. How exactly do you check the transmission fluid level?

MonsterTDI09 said:

Did you check fluid level when you were done? The reason I ask is, how do you know the trans was full when you started? This not to pick on you at all.Just making sure I understand that you should check it to make sure it is full.

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We did not check the temp before we drained. The car was driven ~25 miles or so to my place. We dropped the oil probably 20-30 mins after he arrived. About ~1/2L (guessing here i didnt measure) came out before we pulled out the snorkel. But we replaced the amount that came out.

As for checking the fluid level when your done, we followed the procedure. And how would you know if the trans was full when we started other than letting the temp settle to 35-45*C then removing the drain plug with the engine running? Seems to be a needless step that wouldn't matter since your draining the oil anyways. Plus this was the first service for this transmission (I believe).

Thanks for your answer, nobody said they re check fluid when they were done.So if you over fill a little it will drain out no big deal.Then why bother measure what drains out.If you have a good idea how much drains out.Then you refill it and then check to make sure it's full.Why does VW tell you refill the trans from the bottom when you can do from the top there must be a reason?

The reason is speed. Bottom fill is a lot faster.

MonsterTDI09 said:

Thanks for your answer, nobody said they re check fluid when they were done.So if you over fill a little it will drain out no big deal.Then why bother measure what drains out.If you have a good idea how much drains out.Then you refill it and then check to make sure it's full.Why does VW tell you refill the trans from the bottom when you can do from the top there must be a reason?

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Have you ever done thie DSG service? Have you read the procedure? Setting the fluid level is completed with the engine running trans temp between 35*-45*C (IIRC) after shifting through the gears pausing at each one. After the trans has come up to temp you remove the tool and wait for it to stop draining. Replace the drain plug and your done.

So please back up your statement about rechecking te fluid level for me. As I must have missed it in the procedure. As far as I'm concerned these procedures are written by the good folks at VW for a reason, the fact you can top fill doesnt matter, why does matter is how you set the fluid level!

@Jason,

with all of your experience, have you considered posting a guide for your method of DSG service? Perhaps with your next customer you could photo document your methods - I'd be happy to donate via paypal for your troubles (i'd come see you myself if I lived near WI). I'll be doing my own service in the next year or two and this top fed method seems much easier.

Haven't read the every post in the thread but does your method work with 09-11 CR TDI's?

Absolute Diesel said:

@Jason,

with all of your experience, have you considered posting a guide for your method of DSG service? Perhaps with your next customer you could photo document your methods - I'd be happy to donate via paypal for your troubles (i'd come see you myself if I lived near WI). I'll be doing my own service in the next year or two and this top fed method seems much easier.

Haven't read the every post in the thread but does your method work with 09-11 CR TDI's?

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Here's the DIY.

If you read the thread, it appears the filter is more difficult to get to on a 2009+ than on earlier TDIs. When I did my 2009 as suggested in posts in the DIY thread, I removed the battery and then removed a few bolts that held the battery tray in place and shifted the tray out of the way. It was then very easy to remove the filter and fill from the top. There's no need for the special filling tool - just the $5 Walmart funnel.

jasonTDI said:

Look, if you drive the car around you'll be past the temp in about 300 yards.

starting it would bring it up in about 2 minutes.

That said I top fill all the time. I find that the heat and drain method always makes it a 1/2-2/3 qt low. I've done about 150 DSG services and I can tell you they drop 4.5 quarts of oil every time from the factory. Measuring all heat and drain oil caught and what came out of the bottle ends up the above amount low every time. EVERY TIME.

I have DSG client in the 260K mile range and I have Done it this way every time without issue.


Jason said that this way of measuring the heat and drain oil caught and what came out of the bottle ends up low every time.


Oh, 15min? NOT A CHANCE. I heat the oil and it's still 45 min.

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D-Cell_Mekanick said:

Have you ever done thie DSG service? Have you read the procedure? Setting the fluid level is completed with the engine running trans temp between 35*-45*C (IIRC) after shifting through the gears pausing at each one. After the trans has come up to temp you remove the tool and wait for it to stop draining. Replace the drain plug and your done.

So please back up your statement about rechecking te fluid level for me. As I must have missed it in the procedure. As far as I'm concerned these procedures are written by the good folks at VW for a reason, the fact you can top fill doesnt matter, why does matter is how you set the fluid level!

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Then he says this

jasonTDI said:

The reason is speed. Bottom fill is a lot faster.

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There are conflicting statements here, so I am a little confused? Sorry if i was not clear.This is not about nip picking or pissing contest.If i offend anybody sorry this is not my intention

MonsterTDI09 said:

Then he says this





There are conflicting statements here, so I am a little confused? Sorry if i was not clear.This is not about nip picking or pissing contest.If i offend anybody sorry this is not my intention

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I would say it took about 30-40 minutes to get 6 bottles in to the trans, maybe a little longer filling via the bottom with D-Cell's home made filling tool (Which operates almost identically to a VAS-6262)

Just from what I observed, filling from the bottom seems to be easier. The hole in the top of the trans were the filtered fuel is returned to the transmission is pretty small - smaller than a dime if I recall correctly. It would seem to me that balancing a funnel or funnel/hose combo on this would require some babysitting and some balancing skills. Connecting the bottle to the VAS-6262 which is then connected to the drain/fill port on the bottom of the trans is a much cleaner process. It's hard to describe, but it just seems that way.

I do agree with D-Cell though - the process is designed to fill through the bottom for a reason. Maybe that reason follows the "German's engineer stuff because they can, not because they should..", but I don't know for sure. Either way, (I love that quote by the way.. I work with a lot of Siemens products that seem to be engineered in that fashion as well..)

I haven't filled the from the top, but for my 80K I foresee filling through the bottom unless I find a good reason otherwise.

dzcad90 said:

I would say it took about 30-40 minutes to get 6 bottles in to the trans, maybe a little longer filling via the bottom with D-Cell's home made filling tool (Which operates almost identically to a VAS-6262)
Just from what I observed, filling from the bottom seems to be easier. The hole in the top of the trans were the filtered fuel is returned to the transmission is pretty small - smaller than a dime if I recall correctly. It would seem to me that balancing a funnel or funnel/hose combo on this would require some babysitting and some balancing skills. Connecting the bottle to the VAS-6262 which is then connected to the drain/fill port on the bottom of the trans is a much cleaner process. It's hard to describe, but it just seems that way.
I do agree with D-Cell though - the process is designed to fill through the bottom for a reason. Maybe that reason follows the "German's engineer stuff because they can, not because they should..", but I don't know for sure. Either way, (I love that quote by the way.. I work with a lot of Siemens products that seem to be engineered in that fashion as well..)
I haven't filled the from the top, but for my 80K I foresee filling through the bottom unless I find a good reason otherwise.

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The Walmart funnel is a graduated, measuring funnel with lid that will hold one quart of fluid. The funnel has a metal screen (fairly course), a valve, about a one foot clear plastic hose with cap. The clear hose will fit perfectly in the center hole in the DSG canister. What's nice is the fluid does not fill the canister but simply goes directly down the hole. Also, it takes a good bit of movement to dislodge the hose from the hole.
I simply held the funnel (has handle) above the canister and opened the valve. I did not have to hold the hose end in the hole. It took nolonger than 5 minutes to empty the funnel. If the hose would become dislodged, one simply closes the valve and reposition the hose in the hole. In emptying the funnel 6 times, the hose dislodged the first time as I wasn't sure how to position the funnel. But after that no issues. Even when the hose became dislodged, it filled the canister slowly. I suppose one could suspend the funnel with wire / rope and not have to hold it but holding the funnel was really no big deal as it really wouldn't shorten the time nor negate the babysitting.
On other point, I ran the car up on ramps and removed the belly pan. Then I backed it down and easily reached underneath and removed the drain plug and level tube. There's no need to jack the car up and put it on jack stands. I don't know whether one can fill from the bottom easily without jacking the car up.

i ordered the kit for about $113 (except the washer I will get from dealer for 1.30), and will do it next weekend. my plan is when warm drain -> remove filter ->close drain plug -> fill 4.6L fluid from top -> put in new filter ->put air filter back ->done.

Just like any mechanical design, there will always be some tolerance. think about it how many people keep checking (if he/she knows how to) atf level on their cars having non-dsg trans? needless to say some low some high so what? there is no perfect world although we should be careful on what we are doing. per many posts from those who did it with hands-on experience, 4.6l is a safe number. agree?

The best set up I have seen so far for a top side fill was a drip system that used a hose direct into the filter reservoir and a valve to control the flow at just a tad slower than the drain down rate. That way you could literally just fill the container and walk away. I still do it with the tranny funnel and an 1/8th of a quart at a time. If it really takes 30-40 minutes to do a bottom fill... I'm never going that route... I can do that from the top...

Maybe someone with a bit more search time on their hands can find the post and put a link here of the "drip" system. Pretty trick.

And the hole that the oil drains down from the top side is definitely not "dime" sized... more like a half pence....

TDICrazier said:

i ordered the kit for about $113 (except the washer I will get from dealer for 1.30), and will do it next weekend. my plan is when warm drain -> remove filter ->close drain plug -> fill 4.6L fluid from top -> put in new filter ->put air filter back ->done.

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Save the $1.30, time and fuel getting one... I still have my "replacement" washer and o-ring from the first time. Maybe I'll replace that o-ring this time around.... nah.....

My plan is to dump in 5l, close it back up and call it good. I got out 4.5 the first time....and filled it back with the same, but the second drain I know the level was at or below the snorkel as I only drained what was inside the snorkel. Second time I also filled with 4.5l, and when I checked the level, which I did not do the first time.. I drained just a hair more than the snorkel holds....

But.. I know that the dealer had "checked the oil level" in the DSG prior to 40k so I didn't have that little bit extra that I hear of people draining out before they pull the snorkel. 4.5 + little bit extra = 5l.

Dunno513 said:

The best set up I have seen so far for a top side fill was a drip system that used a hose direct into the filter reservoir and a valve to control the flow at just a tad slower than the drain down rate. That way you could literally just fill the container and walk away. I still do it with the tranny funnel and an 1/8th of a quart at a time. If it really takes 30-40 minutes to do a bottom fill... I'm never going that route... I can do that from the top...
Maybe someone with a bit more search time on their hands can find the post and put a link here of the "drip" system. Pretty trick.
And the hole that the oil drains down from the top side is definitely not "dime" sized... more like a half pence....

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You're describing the Walmart funnel. The diameter of the tip of the hose on the funnel is slightly less than 1/2 inch and fits perfectly into the bore of the hole (probably slightly more than 1/2 inch). With the tip inserted into the bore, it takes less than 5 minutes to empty a full funnel (holds one quart).

Actually, I tried to regulate the valve with my first funnel of oil with the hose just laying inside the canister. The oil seemed to drain down the hole very slowly. So, I closed the valve, let the oil drain out of the canister, inserted the hose into the bore, opened the valve, and the oil seemed to drain much faster from the funnel.

Dunno513 said:

Save the $1.30, time and fuel getting one... I still have my "replacement" washer and o-ring from the first time. Maybe I'll replace that o-ring this time around.... nah.....

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so the washer seals well after reuse? if so i'd save a trip
i'd take your advice, move up a bit say 4.7L. it's really no big deal.

TDICrazier said:

so the washer seals well after reuse? if so i'd save a trip
i'd take your advice, move up a bit say 4.7L. it's really no big deal.

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Sure, you can PROBABLY get by and use the washer and seal again. You might even be able to use it two or three times.

For under $3 in parts total, is it really worth it to gamble?

Plus 3 Golfer said:

You're describing the Walmart funnel. The diameter of the tip of the hose on the funnel is slightly less than 1/2 inch and fits perfectly into the bore of the hole (probably slightly more than 1/2 inch). With the tip inserted into the bore, it takes less than 5 minutes to empty a full funnel (holds one quart).

Actually, I tried to regulate the valve with my first funnel of oil with the hose just laying inside the canister. The oil seemed to drain down the hole very slowly. So, I closed the valve, let the oil drain out of the canister, inserted the hose into the bore, opened the valve, and the oil seemed to drain much faster from the funnel.

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That's the same funnel I use to measure out additive. I keep it in the trunk.

I fill from both ends..top and bottom at the same time, then use VDCS to check temp..The DSG is too dang sensitive to fluid level to play with. I have to know exactly the fill was done correctly.

Get the level off and it will effect the operation of the DSG..Ask me how I know..

Plus 3 Golfer said:

Here's the DIY.

If you read the thread, it appears the filter is more difficult to get to on a 2009+ than on earlier TDIs. When I did my 2009 as suggested in posts in the DIY thread, I removed the battery and then removed a few bolts that held the battery tray in place and shifted the tray out of the way. It was then very easy to remove the filter and fill from the top. There's no need for the special filling tool - just the $5 Walmart funnel.

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The 09-10' cars actually have 2 less parts to remove. No battery covers.

Otherwise they are the same.

Let me comment on one thing. I have on MORE than one occasion checked the factory fill with the VCDS and a VERY level car and I ALWAYS get 1/2 a liter or so out the drain. So what's that tell you? Either that they are ALL overfilled from the factory or that is the CORRECT level. I can GUARANTEE you they put a metered amount of fluid in a dry fill and that is the spec. SO........Underfill is bad.

we have to believe what manufacturer's doing - they designed it and they know what is best for it. can i assume putting 5L is a right number?
(bought the funnel everyone was talking about at walmart for $3.88 - this is calfornia price, and ready for hands dirty this weekend)

jasonTDI said:

The 09-10' cars actually have 2 less parts to remove. No battery covers.

Otherwise they are the same.

Let me comment on one thing. I have on MORE than one occasion checked the factory fill with the VCDS and a VERY level car and I ALWAYS get 1/2 a liter or so out the drain. So what's that tell you? Either that they are ALL overfilled from the factory or that is the CORRECT level. I can GUARANTEE you they put a metered amount of fluid in a dry fill and that is the spec. SO........Underfill is bad.

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When I pulled the drainplug I got out about a half litre or so. Then when I pulled the baffle I got out the remainder. We measured the total amount that came out and it was 4.5 litres.

Continued with service and filled with 6L of DSG fluid.

Then we measured what came out after we removed the hose and such - 1.5L

I don't have to do the math for anyone - 4.5L came out and it was replaced with 4.5L of fluid.

Maybe by driving the car around some fluid is in parts of the transmission that are above the baffle?

TDICrazier said:

can i assume putting 5L is a right number?

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4.5L, not 5L