Tuning Help Re: Remap with a Tuning Box / Digi TPC Boost Controller / Overfueling

pietch

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Hi Guys!

Got a PD TDI. Need some basic answers to the following please...

My car is ECU re-mapped... it drives better than standard. The addition of a tuning box has improved things further as has the addition of the Evry mod... however my car does soot a little on fast acceleration with all these mods... if I accelerate slowly all is fine, how come? Perhaps something to do with the Evry mod perhaps?

I know my boost pressure is increased from my remap but with increasing it further using one of these TPS Boost controllers help? http://www.dieseltuning.ca/modules/digi_tpc.html

If not would a manual type ball and spring type boost controller reduce turbo lag and soot even if I kept max boost at the same pressure as the remap is making?

Also one more question, is overfueling a little really that bad, does it reduce power or does it just drive up EGT? My smoke is more white then black (if this info helps). Would fooling the MAF using the BAV21 diode trick help burn excess fuel?

Thanks all!
 
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vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
You're going to break that thing. If you really want to make more power then you need to invest in hardware upgrades. Your add-on boxes are like putting a band-aid full of dirt on a wound....it might mask the problem now but it will come back to haunt you eventually.
 

pietch

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Yes... power delivery is now superb... have run these mods together for thousands of miles no problem.
 

Farfromovin

Torque Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
Na, you're good man! Hammer down... LOL Remove everything but the re-map. If you want EVEN more power, I suggest larger turbo/exhaust/bigger PD injectors ($$$), re mapping all the way.
 
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streeker02

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2008
Location
Halton Hills
TDI
2003 Golf TDI
vwmikel said:
You're going to break that thing. If you really want to make more power then you need to invest in hardware upgrades. Your add-on boxes are like putting a band-aid full of dirt on a wound....it might mask the problem now but it will come back to haunt you eventually.
Listen to what this man is telling you ;)
 

F1 tuning

Vendor
Joined
Apr 18, 2000
Location
NY NY
TDI
Varios TDI
Just like VW Mikel says......get real remap, not tryng to make and go nowere, there is allot out there thinking fulling can make hapen............yes it could make smoke, make boost, but no power
I don't think so!!
 
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Ed's TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2001
Location
Victoria, BC, Canada
TDI
2001 Bora and 2016 Touareg
You kinda have a choice to make as to which direction you're going to take the power mods - chip-tune or tuning box/TPC. Either setup will get you the result you're looking for, but both setups together is a bit of overkill.

I have a tuning box/TPC setup in my Wagon and it goes great. Combined with .232 injectors, it makes a nicely upgraded daily-driver with enough power to pass cars and play with the occasional Honda, but still returns 45+ mpg.

If you've already got a chip, maybe you can contact the tuner and get a remap to bump up the power a bit. That's basically all you'd need to add to your injectors to basically accomplish the same as the tuning box/TPC setup would do. If you can't get a remap, maybe you can get a stock ECU and sell yours with the chip, then buy the TPC to go with the tuning box.
 

pietch

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
I understand what your saying and appreciate the feedback however in my case more mods = more power and a only little bit of soot; however if I accelerate slowly all is fine, how come, anyone know? Here is a video of about how bad my sooting is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOSsnvruW0I

Is overfueling a little really that bad, does it reduce power or does it just drive up EGT? Would fooling the MAF using the BAV21 diode trick mod help burn excess fuel on fast acceleration?

Can anyone tell me would a manual type ball and spring type boost controller reduce turbo lag and soot even if I kept max boost at the same pressure as the remap is making? i.e. http://www.3barracing.com/product_8.htm
 

vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
The PD injector flow is dependant upon how long they're open which we refer to as injection duration. When you start asking for too much fuel from the stock injectors your injection duration becomes too long and the combustion process extends further and further past TDC. This translates to more smoke and higher EGT's.

Fuel flow when you put your foot to the floor suddenly is governed by many factors such as air mass (which is dependant upon boost pressure), sometimes boost pressure itself, RPM, Torque Limiter, etc. A tuning box will typically alter an input to the ECU to produce a desired output such as increased fuel flow and frequently this is done in a way that bypasses all of those typical safety protocols the ECU uses to govern the fuel flow.

So, when you throw all of that out the window and put your foot to the floor, what do you think is going to happen? The fuel will flow regardless of boost pressure, regardless of air mass, and regardless of whether or not the conditions are ideal. If you really wanted more power from the remap then go back and tell them that.
 

vwmikel

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Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
pietch said:
Thanks vwmikel!

Do you think this much sooting is acceptable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOSsnvruW0I

Would fooling the MAF using the BAV21 diode trick mod help burn excess fuel on fast acceleration?

Can anyone tell me would a manual type ball and spring type boost controller reduce turbo spool time and help eliminate fast throttle soot? http://www.3barracing.com/product_8.htm
I doubt that soot is really going to cause excessively high EGT's but that somewhat depends on your turbo setup as well. The diode trick would only make it worse because it basically fools the ECU into thinking it has the max amount of air. If anything you'd need to fool it into thinking there is less air to stop the smoke. If you still have a VNT turbo than the ball and spring valve isn't going to do anything for your spool.
 

pietch

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Thanks for advice vwmikel...

I just tried the car with the EVRY mod removed (but keeping the remap and digital tuning box on)... soot is no worse however the car feels a little more laggy, I remember reading somewhere that EVRY mod does this:

"These devices are just resistors – irrespective of any other claims, a single resistor across the terminals on the fuel temperature transducer wires will cause the ECU to trip in the 'winter fuel settings'. The ECU sees the fuel as being at it's 'maximum cold' state, hence increases injector duration, changes timing etc to improve engine conditions for the fuel it expects is now much denser. If you trip that function you get more fuel from the injection system and more power. It works, but there are issues. The mod is not controllable in any way, the extra fuel is only issued at lower rpm – nothing over 3250 rpm. The extra fuel that is issued is for most engines too much, the engine will smoke. Who minds a bit of smoke when you have an extra 15bhp? - well no one initially, but the 'midterm' problem arises with premature failure of the VNT turbo's. The Variable nozzle turbo chargers fitted to the PD engines, have small vanes and operating components in the exhaust housing, theseclogupwith the excess soot from the over fuel led engine – causing loss of full control over the boost pressure. The boost pressure rises until the ECU shuts the engine down - no one repairs or services the turbo's, they are $1000/1300 inc vat and fitting at your local dealer."

Is this true? And does the EVRY mod only work until 3250rpm?

Also my PD has the GT15 turbocharger - so you saying a dawes device will help spool and soot problem?

Thanks! :)
 
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vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
I'm still confused how you would have a PD with the EVRY mod because the EVRY mod is something you do on VE engines. Please clarify exactly what you've done.

What they said is more or less true. The vanes do get clogged from time to time. Your turbo may be a GT15, but it is still likely a VNT turbo so it has no wastegate perse.
 

Farfromovin

Torque Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
The "boost controller" you keep pointing at will only LIMIT BOOST to whatever you set it at. It has no function to control lag whatsoever. The boost controller is used to prevent against spikes. Sometimes the small VNT's like to run away from themselves dependent on driving conditions. My VNT 15 used to never ever ever go above 19 psi but I saw it spike to 27 psi one time when I was cruising at about 100mph and I floored it... A boost controller would be used to guard against that type of scenario IMO.
 

pietch

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
My engine is 100% a pump deuse...

This is the Evry (or what I think is the Evry mod) that I have on my car: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TDI-Diesel-Tuning-Box-PD-VW-AUDI-SEAT-SKODA-FORD-38BHP_W0QQitemZ290247670265QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290247670265&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1308 Can anyone confirm that this mods only works up until 3250rpm?

This is the digital tuning box I use: http://www.powerklick.ie/howitworks.html

I know my turbo is a GT15 and it uses the pneumatic solenoid controller tocontrol an actuator, I even have a spare just in case :) My boost is about 18psi - so am I safe from soot damaging the turbocharger?
 

DPM

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Joined
Mar 16, 2001
Location
Newtownards, N. Ireland
TDI
2019 Rav4 AWD Hybrid, Citroen C4 BlueHDI
Evry mod is NOT the same. Evry mod concerns the Quantity Adjuster and it's feedback sensor, it's nothing to do with fuel temperature.
 

pietch

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Oh I see - sorry about that.

So does this fuel mod only work until 3250rpm? Anyone know?

Thanks
 

F1 tuning

Vendor
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Location
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Varios TDI
Get a Real Tuning, wee are few here can do for you, all depends on what you prefer.
 
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streeker02

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2008
Location
Halton Hills
TDI
2003 Golf TDI
You should get two more tuning boxes....plug one into your existing tuning box, then plug the next one into THAT box....you'll have lots of power now ;)

You seem to be ignoring the advise everyone is giving - why keep asking

so AGAIN, contact your tuner. Get your tune adjusted, take off all the other s**t. You don't need it. Period. If you want to blow the thing up, keep over fueling it.
 

dieselpower04

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Location
Outside Tampa, FL
TDI
2004 Golf GLS TDI (sold)
pietch said:
My engine is 100% a pump deuse...

This is the Evry (or what I think is the Evry mod) that I have on my car: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TDI-Diesel-Tuning-Box-PD-VW-AUDI-SEAT-SKODA-FORD-38BHP_W0QQitemZ290247670265QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290247670265&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1308 Can anyone confirm that this mods only works up until 3250rpm?
DON'T USE THAT! I had one on my car and it ran like crap with it! It freaked the computer out and gave a check engine light (MIL if you will).
 

F1 tuning

Vendor
Joined
Apr 18, 2000
Location
NY NY
TDI
Varios TDI
pietch said:
Thanks for advice vwmikel...

I just tried the car with the EVRY mod removed (but keeping the remap and digital tuning box on)... soot is no worse however the car feels a little more laggy, I remember reading somewhere that EVRY mod does this:

"These devices are just resistors – irrespective of any other claims, a single resistor across the terminals on the fuel temperature transducer wires will cause the ECU to trip in the 'winter fuel settings'. The ECU sees the fuel as being at it's 'maximum cold' state, hence increases injector duration, changes timing etc to improve engine conditions for the fuel it expects is now much denser. If you trip that function you get more fuel from the injection system and more power. It works, but there are issues. The mod is not controllable in any way, the extra fuel is only issued at lower rpm – nothing over 3250 rpm. The extra fuel that is issued is for most engines too much, the engine will smoke. Who minds a bit of smoke when you have an extra 15bhp? - well no one initially, but the 'midterm' problem arises with premature failure of the VNT turbo's. The Variable nozzle turbo chargers fitted to the PD engines, have small vanes and operating components in the exhaust housing, theseclogupwith the excess soot from the over fuel led engine – causing loss of full control over the boost pressure. The boost pressure rises until the ECU shuts the engine down - no one repairs or services the turbo's, they are $1000/1300 inc vat and fitting at your local dealer."

Is this true? And does the EVRY mod only work until 3250rpm?

Also my PD has the GT15 turbocharger - so you saying a dawes device will help spool and soot problem?

Thanks! :)



This is great explanation, there is noting better
 

pietch

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006

F1 tuning

Vendor
Joined
Apr 18, 2000
Location
NY NY
TDI
Varios TDI
Originally Posted by pietch
Thanks for advice vwmikel...

I just tried the car with the EVRY mod removed (but keeping the remap and digital tuning box on)... soot is no worse however the car feels a little more laggy, I remember reading somewhere that EVRY mod does this:

"These devices are just resistors – irrespective of any other claims, a single resistor across the terminals on the fuel temperature transducer wires will cause the ECU to trip in the 'winter fuel settings'. The ECU sees the fuel as being at it's 'maximum cold' state, hence increases injector duration, changes timing etc to improve engine conditions for the fuel it expects is now much denser. If you trip that function you get more fuel from the injection system and more power. It works, but there are issues. The mod is not controllable in any way, the extra fuel is only issued at lower rpm – nothing over 3250 rpm. The extra fuel that is issued is for most engines too much, the engine will smoke. Who minds a bit of smoke when you have an extra 15bhp? - well no one initially, but the 'midterm' problem arises with premature failure of the VNT turbo's. The Variable nozzle turbo chargers fitted to the PD engines, have small vanes and operating components in the exhaust housing, theseclogupwith the excess soot from the over fuel led engine – causing loss of full control over the boost pressure. The boost pressure rises until the ECU shuts the engine down - no one repairs or services the turbo's, they are $1000/1300 inc vat and fitting at your local dealer."

Q: Is this true? And does the EVRY mod only work until 3250rpm?
A: Yes it is !!!

 

pietch

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
38bhp no way!

I would guess 10bhp below 2000rpm and 25 lb/ft below 2000rpm, not much above - but still it makes the car feel much lighter off the mark, it is not a subsitute for a remap but can be used in conjunction no problem as I have for 20k easy!
 
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