Pp520 vs sprint 520

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
??? Extra fuel?

If I use the PP520's with the stock ECU, I get no shudder, so it's getting the extra fuel. The only common denominator here is the RC chips since the Wett chips don't produce the shudder.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Additional fuel electronically. It's possible the Wett chips don't add as much fuel as RC, just like Aligator doesn't add fuel (or at least didn't in the tune I had). Jeff has always been on the more aggressive side of adding fuel electronically to tunes. In this case I think it causes problems sometimes. It may that for his tunes to work without shuddering the pump must be in good shape. And it also might be that the smooth pump is more susceptible to shudder when more fuel is requested. For example, my '97 1Z A3 with a smooth pump shuddered with RC2 and stock nozzles. My son's "98 AHU A3 with a ribbed pump and the same tune, ECU, and nozzles doesn't. I'm not saying that's conclusive but it does make me wonder.
 

Chrispyduckk

Member
Joined
May 26, 2013
Location
Kent
TDI
Mk gt tdi 110 (AHF)
Having read through this, I have many problems described here.
My set up:
AHF 110
Cruise Control Fitted
Kerma PP520 Nozzles
PD150 Turbo
AmD Essex Remap
(this is how i bought it)

since then ive had a newer pump fitted due to the vibrating and new fuel filter, no joy.
Now playing around with IQ to fix the problems no joy.

I get these symptoms:
Long time to start up
Rough Idle
Pulsing engine vibration above 50mph/5th gear especially uphill. Also shakes when braking unless clutch is engaged...

Ripping my hair out just want a smooth ride! :(
 

nexus665

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Location
Austria
TDI
Golf 4 1.9 ALH MY2002
Hi,
from personal experience I can say that it is definitely a software issue.

When you swap nozzles or pump heads, you need to adjust your pump voltage table to reflect these new hardware changes. Now, it would be simple if you could just proportionately scale your existing map and have it work - but you can't.

For this reason, most tuners leave the pump voltage stock and just do the "hammer" mod to set idle IQ, which alleviates the problem. However, since everyone seems to think 4-5mg/stroke is ideal no matter what nozzles, people are still having trouble. My tune, for example, was one of the ones you could not stop shuddering even with the hammer mod - after several revisions to the pump voltage table, the shudder is completely gone, response is ideal and much improved to before, ...

The thing is, when you're doing the hammer mod, it's like you're proportionately scaling - this will work inside pretty wide limits, because VW has set it up very forgivingly to take care of wildly differing climatic and other ambient conditions. However, once you get outside that "tolerable" range for the ECU, you start experiencing shudder - this is caused by the ECU not being able to correct enough. It'll go to max quantity correction and then swing back to low, then to max, then to low, ... -> shudder.

That's what regulation systems do if the error is higher than their "reach" to correct - they fluctuate wildly trying to regain control, though in vain.

So the real solution is to find a tuner that knows how to work out a pump voltage table...those seem rare! Also, since the amount of work involved is much much greater than just sticking a base tune on and doing the hammer mod, it'll not be cheap, probably.

Regards
 
Last edited:

Chrispyduckk

Member
Joined
May 26, 2013
Location
Kent
TDI
Mk gt tdi 110 (AHF)
Thank you for your reply Nexus. My voltage reading is 1.6/1.7 volts i believe when i was looking on VCDS. Will have a look and see what i can get sorted.
Cheers
 

TonyJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Location
Tucson, Az
TDI
'15 Jetta TDI SE / '06 Jetta TDI DSG Pkg0 / '96 Passat TDI
For what it's worth, I have a malone tune, and like others, do not have these kind of issues.

Try malonetuning.com

Tony
Sent from my e-diesel fleet
 

Houpty GT

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Location
South Carolina
TDI
Corrado TDI, 2000 Golf, 1996 B4 Variant
Hi,
from personal experience I can say that it is definitely a software issue.

When you swap nozzles or pump heads, you need to adjust your pump voltage table to reflect these new hardware changes. Now, it would be simple if you could just proportionately scale your existing map and have it work - but you can't.

For this reason, most tuners leave the pump voltage stock and just do the "hammer" mod to set idle IQ, which alleviates the problem. However, since everyone seems to think 4-5mg/stroke is ideal no matter what nozzles, people are still having trouble. My tune, for example, was one of the ones you could not stop shuddering even with the hammer mod - after several revisions to the pump voltage table, the shudder is completely gone, response is ideal and much improved to before, ...

The thing is, when you're doing the hammer mod, it's like you're proportionately scaling - this will work inside pretty wide limits, because VW has set it up very forgivingly to take care of wildly differing climatic and other ambient conditions. However, once you get outside that "tolerable" range for the ECU, you start experiencing shudder - this is caused by the ECU not being able to correct enough. It'll go to max quantity correction and then swing back to low, then to max, then to low, ... -> shudder.

That's what regulation systems do if the error is higher than their "reach" to correct - they fluctuate wildly trying to regain control, though in vain.

So the real solution is to find a tuner that knows how to work out a pump voltage table...those seem rare! Also, since the amount of work involved is much much greater than just sticking a base tune on and doing the hammer mod, it'll not be cheap, probably.

Regards
There are 5 things that can be adjusted for the air/fuel ratios that I know about.
1. QA position "hammer mod" - arm position, cosine error, etc.
2. Adaptation - software interpretation of voltage
3. Sensor arm position - Voltage for maps Group 019
4. Reference voltage - not sure how to use for effects?
5. Software tune

Are you aware of all these and if they could be used to correct the issue?
 

firehawk618

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Location
Marysville, WA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI, 2dr, M6, Stock
For what it's worth, I have a malone tune, and like others, do not have these kind of issues.

Try malonetuning.com

Tony
Sent from my e-diesel fleet

For what it's worth I have a Malone stage 3 tune and it stutters. Before the tune I had a blacksmoke.uk tune and it stutters.

Hoping to revive this thread for a REAL DIY fix short of having the tuner do magic.
 

TonyJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Location
Tucson, Az
TDI
'15 Jetta TDI SE / '06 Jetta TDI DSG Pkg0 / '96 Passat TDI
What I've found recently is that the shudder is more tied to the combination of nozzles and tune. My malone tune was fine when I had factory nozzles. Late in july I installed a set of Titan 205 nozzles and set the iq to ~6: I now have the shudder from off idle to ~1200.

Tony
Sent from my e-diesel fleet now Free
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Bumpity.

Looking to confirm which wire connector needs to be disconnected on a B4?

I disconnected the U2-2 wire (blue connector 4th from passenger side) and my MFA exterior temp reading died :D

Also tried both the black and brown green wire off the VSS, and the speedo dies with either wire disconnected.

I have not yet tried to find the TV connector as indicated in some posts.

BTW, I have a malone stgII and have the shudder. Cruise is not important to me, but the speedo is.
 
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