Bryan's response to Harv's Response to Tire Kickin Looky Looer's

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BioBryan

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Location
Santa Barbara
TDI
96 Passat Wagon
Wow, where do I begin. I've been waiting for this car, the one I recently sold to Leonard, show up for sale. I've been dying to see how much he would ask considering how badly he low balled me on the price he paid me for it. Let me first give you all a little history. By the way I'm really hoping this thread doesn't magically disappear or become locked. This is a public forum for individuals to learn or benefit from previous experiences isn't it? I think we all have a right to comment. Back to the history. I bought this car roughly back in September 06'. A woman in San Jose sold it to me for $7,000. I spent months looking for this car as you all can guess. I thought I got a decent deal. However, two weeks after bringing it home it stopped running. I tried to figure it out myself using this very informative and helpful website. To no avail. I took it to several mechanics including 2 dealerships. No one could figure it out. I was told by one dealership that it needed a new engine. This is all after spending another $3,000. I was understandably hesitant to spend any more. Yes, now I was $10,000 into this thing that wouldn't run, not to mention being without a car for about 6 months. I got desperate and contacted Wild Rose. I had seen "Harv's" posts/responses in the past and had sensed the animosity that other members felt towards him. I didn't want to make any judgments without personal experience. When I talked to Leonard I explained the whole story. He seemed like an honest guy. He told me I could tow the vehicle down to him from Santa Barbara and he'd take a look at it. I told him that I really wanted to get out from under it. He said he'd look it over and fix it if he could. Because I was a couple of hundred miles away he mentioned that we could possibly work out a deal where he'd fix it and then sell it and give me a fair cut, otherwise it was there to be fixed so that I could sell it. I dropped the vehicle off as agreed. A few days later I got the bad news... "It's going to need a new engine". He then offered me $2,500 to get rid of it and the headache it was giving me. He told me that a new engine would cost roughly $4,000 and that he might be able to get $7,500 for it if he was lucky, justifying the low offer of $2,500. That's when my BS alarm went off. I told him that I really thought it was worth more. I had shopped for months for this vehicle and knew what they were worth, especially a white wagon with only 134,000 miles. Unfortunately he had me by the huevos at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Capitalism... I own a business and I know we all need to make a buck. I've just been taught not to take advantage of people. Sure I had a vehicle that didn't run and what's that worth, but he had told me that it was going to need a new engine. Harv's "teaser" post made no mention of an engine replacement. And then to ask, and probably get, $12,000 for a car that I was told would be lucky to get $7,500 for. I don't know... this experience was crappy from start to finish and I just thought others should know about it. I'm still curious as to what the fix was and I hope it doesn't return to haunt the new buyer... because I care.
 

slix98TDI

Active member
Joined
Jul 24, 2004
Location
McKinney, Texas
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
Thanks for the informative post. Capitalism is great and everybody needs to make a living, but a used car dealer that sells TDI's is still just a used car dealer.
 

MikeS_18

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Bow, NH
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon, '13 Passat SE, '64 Ford Econoline
Let me understand. So that is your car that he is selling for $12k? And it has a new engine in it. Is it a brand new or used engine from another car? I assume used.

And he told you with a new engine it would be only worth $7500?

And you received $2500 for it?

huh. Thanks for the information. I hope that this helps others in the future.
 

BioBryan

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Location
Santa Barbara
TDI
96 Passat Wagon
Yes that was my TDI. If you search the posts, I believe it was titled something like "a B4V you only wish you had", you can see photos. The vehicle has a license plate frame that says Cory Motors, which is in Santa Barbara. As for the engine, I'm not sure if it was actually replaced. His teaser post made no mention of it, but it did mention the other work that had been done. He had just told me that the engine needed replacing. I'm not sure vw even makes new engines for these. I would assume it would have been a rebuild or parted out motor if he actually did replace it. Yes, I was given $2,500 for the car.
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
Bryan,

I wish I had know about you or you had known about me. I'm in Santa Barbara, know these cars intimately, and would have been happy to get you going again.
 

rjr311

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Location
Western Shawnee, Kansas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon , 1996 Passat sedan
What sounds fair would be for Harvey to give the car back for the cost of the repairs plus a fair markup. That way we know it was all simple misunderstandings on everybodys part.
 

MikeS_18

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Bow, NH
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon, '13 Passat SE, '64 Ford Econoline
BioBryan said:
Because I was a couple of hundred miles away he mentioned that we could possibly work out a deal where he'd fix it and then sell it and give me a fair cut, otherwise it was there to be fixed so that I could sell it.
Is this truthfully what he said? Do you think you got a fair cut at 20% of the new sales price?
 

Fletch63

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Location
Stansbury Park,UT
TDI
03 Beetle 5spd, 2004 Passat B5.5 GLS
Harv,

This post/thread warrants a honest and straight forward response from you. After all, ... you're the one who started all this with this car, ... correct ? Nothing would be in question here (business ethics, honesty, how one treats another who is in need. This guy came to you for help) if you hadn't jumped on here and tried rubbing this car in everyone's nose.

There's always two sides to every story, ... let's now hear your's.

Respectfully.
 
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tpitt1946

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Location
Willits, Ca.
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2004 Silver
Harv, must be out scouring the country for more pristine TDI'S. In the meanwhile delivering food to orphans and widows. What a hero!
 

Harvieux

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 15, 1998
Location
Whittier,CA-USA
TDI
06 A5 Pkg.2 w/navi & ASEP
Man, I just spent the last 45 minutes typing a response to this and my auto disconnect kicked in and I lost all I just typed. I will get back to this asap and will provide a full response. Later!
 

MeinJetta

BANNED, Audi5000 alias
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Harvieux said:
Man, I just spent the last 45 minutes typing a response to this and my auto disconnect kicked in and I lost all I just typed. I will get back to this asap and will provide a full response. Later!
Sounds like Karma to me.....
 

spciesla

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Location
Reno, NV
TDI
Not any more
Wow! Seems like a lot of people are piling onto Harv before hearing his side of the story. I've had nothing but positive experiences when dealing with him. Let's wait to hear his story before throwing anymore jabs his way.
 

HotRod

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Location
Santa Monica, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta
Harv has been the most honest & ethical mechanic I have ever dealt with. He's done my timing belts and some minor repairs.

I never buy or sell cars at dealers, so I don't know how he is on the sales side of things. It seems as if he gets a bad rap on here for being a businessman.

The only thing I've noticed about him that didn't seem right was that he's a Red Wings fan:eek:
 

tomo366

TDI Lifer, Member #68
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Location
Kensington, Maryland USA
TDI
2015 Jetta SEL TDI
I consider Leonard Harvieux one of my best friends on this site......
I believe he sells a premium product at a reasonable price......
If I resided on the left coast I would buy from and have Leonard Maintain my car in a heartbeat........I think people need to have an open mind and hear him out! He is an Honest and upfront businessman who tells it like it is!!
 

david_594

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Location
Cheshire, CT
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS Silver
A B4v with a non running(possibly blown motor) for $2500. I personally dont see anything out of line with that? If anything, $2500 is probabily on the high side for a B4V with a blown motor.

If he put 4k into it and is asking 12, what do you honstly think you are owed? Do you feel he should have paid you 8k for that vehicle? I think we would all agree 8k for a B4v with a blown motor is completely insane.
 

tpitt1946

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Location
Willits, Ca.
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2004 Silver
I really don't think most of us have anything personally against Harv. Its how he comes off, as an egotistical, (sp?) know it all jerk. Most of the people with his knowledge don't come off that way. I'm sure he is a fine person, with much knowledge. Would I take a vehicle to him? Not in my lifetime. It has to do with attitude, not skills.
 

MikeS_18

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Bow, NH
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon, '13 Passat SE, '64 Ford Econoline
david_594 said:
A B4v with a non running(possibly blown motor) for $2500. I personally dont see anything out of line with that?
From the original post: "132K miles and she runs like a fricken sewing machine. There was a new FIP installed by a VW dealer via the previous owner and happend to be installed due to a mis-diagnosis. A new starter was installed as well."

No mention of a replaced motor. Most would want that to be known if they bought a used car. You don't have to disclose it of course.

So, I guess that's the question - it appears he told him the motor needed to be replaced. If it was, then okay.
 
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BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
I was going to stay out of this--but ALL '96's came with a 1Z engine. And while I know this is not the most scientific way to determine, they all had completely red dipstick tubes. In '97 when the ALH came out they switched to a yellowish orange dipstick tube. Look at the dipstick in Harv's picture, the top part is red (which is what all replacements are) but below that we see a yellow/orange tube. We don't know (yet) if the engine was changed, but we can know that the tube has been...

 

wfg97079

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2000
Location
NH
TDI
for the first time in 17 years, none
wow

Photographic evidence introduced...the plot thickens
BleachedBora said:
I was going to stay out of this--but ALL '96's came with a 1Z engine. And while I know this is not the most scientific way to determine, they all had completely red dipstick tubes. In '97 when the ALH came out they switched to a yellowish orange dipstick tube. Look at the dipstick in Harv's picture, the top part is red (which is what all replacements are) but below that we see a yellow/orange tube. We don't know (yet) if the engine was changed, but we can know that the tube has been...

 

4Gman

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Location
ClaremOnt, CA
TDI
2000 Jetta
BioBryan said:
Unfortunately he had me by the huevos at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Capitalism...
No offense, but I think YOU made the wrong choice. Although, you were f-ed either way.
Lets do some math:
Plan-A) 10,000 - 2,500: 7,500...lost in transaction
Plan-B) 10,000 + 4,000(fix): 14,000 - 12,000(sale) : 2,000
Thats only 2,000 lost in THAT transaction
Plan-C) 10,000 + 4,000: 14,000...invested in transportation (w/ great resale)

But BioBryan does not sound like he is REALLY blaming anyone, he is just venting.
A new or used motor...hmmmmmm Back to work people!


:)
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
I've only experienced Leonard's sales side but what a positive experience it was. This was in the good old days before he had his shop, when he was selling from his home and didn't do all the prep and repair that's SOP for him now. He bent over backwards to be fair, farther than I would have.

As to his attitude; what some see as arrogance, I believe, is a hardening as a result of the merciless assaults he's received from this forum. His business is much more than just a business to him; its a labor of love. You can feel his passion for these cars in everything he writes and his dedication and willingness to make these fantastic cars more accessible to a larger group of people is an asset for every single one of us, whether we interact with him or not. There is a generous facet of Leonard reflected in his sales business: he really enjoys connecting TDI enthusiasts with a larger selection of cars than they would otherwise have access to. Yes, he makes a profit, but that is far from his only motivation in selling these cars.
 

3193

Requiescat In Pace
Joined
Dec 11, 2004
Location
Burlington, NJ {35 minutes from Phila Int"l
TDI
all the TDI's on the lot
I do not normally chime in on anyones thread due to remain nuetral, however, I would like to make a claim here to all who may be interested!

As many of you know, I am a dealer as well!

I spoke to Leonard the night he posted this vehicle and heard what I beleive is the whole story and circumstances behind the whole transaction and I do beleive that every poster and guest in this forum should hold judgement until Leonard posts!

I do beleive then, you will all see where the man, fellow TDI'er, and businessman was coming from!!!

Thank you for hearing me out!

Chris
 

dlai

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 6, 2002
Location
The Insane Asylum Known As CA
TDI
2005 Passat, Stonehenge Gray, 2002 Black Golf 5M
Harv is one of the most helpful and straight up guys you'll find on this site. I met him at the Capo GTG a few years back and he is a great guy to deal with. He helped me recently with my car and dealer issues, saving me tons of grief, money, and a huge headache. I too would have no hesitation in buying a car from him or having him work on my car if he was closer. To the original poster, I'm sure Harv offered you the best deal he could offer you. It's up to you to decide to make the deal or not and you chose to. Did you try to ask for more money or did you just take the offer? It sounds like you have seller's remorse, and regret you made the deal. I assume you could have walked away from the whole thing and take your car back. In the end, it was you who made the final decision to sell so I think you can really blame no one but yourself, sorry to say...
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
BleachedBora said:
--but ALL '96's came with a 1Z engine. And while I know this is not the most scientific way to determine, they all had completely red dipstick tubes. In '97 when the ALH came out they switched to a yellowish orange dipstick tube.
Sorry to blow your theory but my late '96 (09/96 prod. date) with original 1Z engine and dipstick tube has a yellow tube.
 
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muffledturbo

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Location
UT
TDI
98 NB
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=152613

Doesn't look like a blown engine to me... it turns over, it starts it ran when bump started. It looks like one that has a fuel starvation problem, clogged fuel lines or clogged pickup in the fuel tank due to "cough" "cough" biodiesel gone bad, rancid.

I think someone saw beaucoup $$$$ to be made, more as a used car dealer than as a mechanic, so the story got spun.

Right now, Harv is in some cave waiting it out. True colors dont run.

Buehler! Buehler?
 

muffledturbo

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Location
UT
TDI
98 NB
dlai said:
Harv is one of the most helpful and straight up guys you'll find on this site. I met him at the Capo GTG a few years back and he is a great guy to deal with. He helped me recently with my car and dealer issues, saving me tons of grief, money, and a huge headache. I too would have no hesitation in buying a car from him or having him work on my car if he was closer. To the original poster, I'm sure Harv offered you the best deal he could offer you. It's up to you to decide to make the deal or not and you chose to. Did you try to ask for more money or did you just take the offer? It sounds like you have seller's remorse, and regret you made the deal. I assume you could have walked away from the whole thing and take your car back. In the end, it was you who made the final decision to sell so I think you can really blame no one but yourself, sorry to say...
Yeah, its called having your car down in So Cal and being under duress.
 

Suns_PSD

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
none
I buy and sell crashed motorcycles on occasion to sell, repair, partout etc...

When something is not running you can never be sure what is really broke and that is why they are sold for: retail - repair cost - a bunch more due to unknowns and profit on work needed = cost paid.

Sometimes is all comes together and w/ my knowledge and connections I fix it, sell it, and make an easy buck. Sometimes I get it apart and I realize that I'm screwed as the damage was worse than I predicted. Cracked frames, blocks, or whatever.

I only take that risk w/ the potential of lots of profit and any dealer is in the same position.

Now, that does not mean I would even intentionally lie to a customer about it being more broke than it is.
 
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