Suddenly difficult to shift gears

My '02 Golf GL 5-speed (~66,500k miles) was doing fine this weekend until Saturday night.

I was driving home after spending some time at a friend's house. I started normally and drove to the street's stop sign without leaving first gear. Angry with something unrelated to the car, I took off under hard acceleration (+4,000 RPM as I prepared to change gears) from the sign. I found it was surprisingly hard to shift from first into second. And then hard to shift from second into third, and then third to fourth and fourth to fifth. Shifting into reverse isn't a problem.

When I say hard, I mean it feels like I'm putting more than 15 pounds of pressure into the shift, often with an abrupt gritty changeover from neutral into gear. Shifting out of gear isn't much easier. On the drive to work this morning, the time it took to force the car into the gears was long enough to drop a few MPH and slow traffic down behind me a bit.

I tried doing a search but didn't come up with anything over the last month. I vaguely recall seeing something like this in the past and some discussion revolved around getting the transmission fluid changed. I've had my regular maintenance at the dealer since I got the car new and haven't had any issues with them...but if there's a cheap fix to this that doesn't involve hours of overpriced labor, I'll gladly take it.

Could the sudden high engine speed affect the tranny somehow? The car drove normally all day up to that point. No leaks were detected under the body when I got home. Everything else seems fine.

The car's almost bone stock: no major mods at all. Only a VAG-COM IQ adjustment a few months ago to lessen gunk build-up in the intake.

Help very much appreciated!

Just drove my car for the first time since this morning.

I had left it in neutral all day. Before I started it, I played with the gears and they worked perfectly smooth. Key in the ignition and no accessories turned on, each gear acted normally.

I started it and tested the gears on the spot, resulting in normal opertation. I then drove around the parking lot, shifting among 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The problem began manifesting almost immediately and the longer I drove around, the worse it became.

Any ideas?

I hit at least 3 bars into redline at least once per week. I have not changed tranny oil, but probably should. I always have a hard time shifting after my wife drives the car, or if I badly miss a gear. What I have found, and this is only me......keep that in mind while reading the rest of this.

What I do after this happens, is to very carefully and deliberately shift for the next few hours to a day, then all returns back to smooth shifting. I found I was getting sloppy (Before anyone flames me, I have over 1.5 million documented miles in Diesels and driving a stick--it can happen to any of us...getting sloppy that is...) and was sometimes trying to move the shift prior to full disengagement of the clutch.....this would cause the shifting to whack out on me. Please try to carefully shift using full depression of the clutch, then touch the shifter, not before, should take two fingers to move the shift lever

Please keep in mind, this was the issue in my case. I won't allow my wife to drive this car anymore and I have had no shifting issues in months. (She is awful on a clutch and won't listen....she doesn't use it because of this.)

Good luck, this is just one idea, it may not be the problem in your case.

YMMV

Mike

I'm a fairly deliberate shifter (I blame my father) and always press the clutch towards the floor as far as it can go before moving anything around. The play in the stick reminds me this isn't a street racer and I don't treat it as such....even when I get angry.

If I had the chance to change gears as carefully as you mention, I would. But I don't get that chance; I cannot shift into gears without an annoying amount of effort. One thing I noticed on the way home is that shifting out of fourth isn't a problem, whereas shifting out of everything else still is.

When I got home, I parked the car and let it idle. Attempting to shift gears while stationary resulted in the same problems as when in motion. I turned the car off and tested the tranny...and the problem disappeared.

Confusion, you are a mean waitress.

Don't know the TDI shifting mechanisms yet, but on the older cars, a sudden change in shifting effort was either due to the "joints" on the shift mechanism letting go, or else an engine mount. Since all the gears went bad at the same time, I would have a close look at the engine mounts... check for excessive shaking as you rev the engine..

Good luck !!

Thanks for the suggestion, but I haven't noticed any unusual vibrations or wobbliness from the engine. Since I'm trying to shift as little as possible while driving, I've been letting the engine rev higher and longer (drives me nuts doing this). If there was any shaking, I woulda felt it. Thanks, though!

This continues to evolve. Now shifting into and out of second is less of a problem, but still noticable. Everything else remains the same.

Still hasn't resolved itself. Shifting into and out of 2nd and 4th presents less of a problem than 1st, 3rd, and 5th. Pushing into third results in gear grinding about half the time while first and fourth get grinding gears about one out of ten shifts. The grinding isn't terrible - only lasting a fraction of a second - but you can certainly hear and feel it.

If no one else can offer suggestions to fix or identify the problem, could any readers provide advice about taking my Golf to the dealer to get it looked at or an independent tranny shop that works with VWs? I'm past my warranty period. The nearest VW dealership is directly inbetween where I work and live (and I have walked from the dealership to work several times). Austin has a variety of independent mechanics all over the place. Never had a problem with the dealership, but everything in the past has been limited to routine maintenance and a dead temperature gauge.

If I didn't know better (and I don't ), I'd say that something came out of adjustment on the shifter linkage at the top of the tranny.

Or something bad happened to the synchros. I don't recall which gears ride on which shafts...

Still hasn't resolved itself. Shifting into and out of 2nd and 4th presents less of a problem than 1st, 3rd, and 5th. Pushing into third results in gear grinding about half the time while first and fourth get grinding gears about one out of ten shifts. The grinding isn't terrible - only lasting a fraction of a second - but you can certainly hear and feel it.

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I don't know for sure if you are talking about the same problem that I was experiencing, but if you are then one mechanic at the dealer were I live said that the linkage may need adjustment. If that doesn't resolve it, then it's the clutch needs replacement. I just changed the transmission fluid with Royal Purple max gear (i believe) 75W-90. It shifts so much better now. My transmission was also about 1/2 quart low. Which leads me to believe that the dealer never even look in the gear box when I had it serviced. I doubt that I will be back there to have work done. If they don't check the basics what's the point.

I can't help you on where to take it, as I am in the same boat. Where do I take it.

Have you tried the 'adjustment' procedure from this link ? (It's the same as in the Bentley manual) It's pretty easy.

-E

Try the adjustment first. You might have to do it 2-3 times to get it right the first time you do it. Anyway, if that dos not solve it you have a bent shift fork and need to disassemble the transmission to fix it. Also the synchros could be bad. You can't tell unless you pull he transmission.

Sorry for your issues. It sucks for sure.

Count on about $400 to remove and reinstall the tranny. Then add about $250 labor plus parts to fix the tranny when out. Hopefully, it's a linkage problem, but if not, you're talking a little less than $1000 to get it fixed correctly. With mine, I first thought linkage, but it turned out to be a synchro, a gear, and a shift fork.

Well, I dropped it off at a German-only import shop not too far from my house this morning. Over the phone, the guy said his initial impression was something was up with a thing called a "golf ball assembly" and said it was roughly a $50 part and 1.5 hours of labor. Yesterday, I took it in for them to test drive after work and the driver looked amazed that I had tolerated it up to this point. Said he thought the problem was internal to the transmission, not clutch. They don't have a lot of business at the moment, so they should have the tranny cracked and examined before the end of business today.

In the meantime, I'm stuck with a Ford Tarus from Enterprise with no CD player. *sigh*

I'll keep Dieselgeek's adjustment page ready in case this happens again or if they have trouble diagnosing the problem. Thanks for the ideas.

I feel for you. I am still walking a little gingerly myself after paying to repair a babied, manual transmission after only 113,000 miles. Heck, I got 110,000 miles out of a Dodge Caravan transmission without a rebuild! You'd think that these manual trannys would be bullet-proof, but they definitely are not. 95 percent of my miles are at 70 mph in 5th gear, and I lose 3rd gear! Just another fact to consider when deciding on the manufacturer of your next new car. I love my Beetle, but I can tell you what my next car won't be...

I am betting on bent shift forks! On the bright side, once you get it back, it's great!

You guys are not going to believe this.

So the mechs at the shop call yesterday afternoon to tell me something screwy is up and they have definitely found a problem. Whether or not it is causing my problem remains to be seen.

As they were testing the Golf, they tried shifting into first with the engine off, parking brake not set, on a level surface. They try to do this and the car moves forward (!!!). So they immediately think it's a clutch issue. I wasn't aware, but apparently the hydraulic clutch shares the same fluid and reservoirs as the brake system. So before they do anything else, they check the brake fluid.

This is when the mech on the phone asks me when the last time - if ever - I've had my brake system flushed or changed. Hell, I dunno. The dealership does the maintenance for me. So the mechanic tells me he's looking at the most unusual brake fluid he's ever seen.



That's a sample I saw them take when I arrived after work. I've got more pictures in my gallery. You see that crap inside? If you let it settle and cool off, it sort of congeals into this stringy almost organic stuff. My first impression was that it was cooking grease or thick spit.

The mechs at the shop are in the process of flushing my brake system with good fluid and plan on calling me before lunch to let me know how it went. At that point, I plan on going to Charles Maund VW and having a serious sit-down with the service manager. I have my 60k service reciept with me and it clearly says "CHECK BRAKE SYSTEM...CHECK TRANSMISSION" on the list of things to do. Brake fluid is specifically changed at 40k, but they check for leaks/damage/fluid level at every checkup.

I'm pissed. Someone either intentionally added this crap to my fluid or screwed up and used something he/she shouldn't have.

The mechs at the shop think there could be a clutch issue relating to this since they felt some slippage while testing and they thought it felt like it wasn't fully (dis)engaging. They also said something could be wrong with the master or slave cylinders (I forget which or if it's both). I'll find out more in a few hours.

You also need to have them hook a VAGCOM and doa full ABS cycle flush. That crap is in there too and a normal flush does nothing to remove this fluid. This takes at LEAST 2 liters of brake fluid and involves the front bleeders only. The stuff in there could be water that has grown algae or something similar.

Thanks for reminding me about the VAG-COM. I asked the techs to hook one up to scan for codes.

Two new pictures are up. Both clearly show the sediment settled down at the bottom:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/505/5892BrakeFluid15-med.jpg
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/505/5892BrakeFluid14-med.jpg

They changed/flushed the crap from the system, put new fluid in, and took it for a test drive. The problem took about a quarter mile to remanifest itself. So the fluid isn't the issue. They wanted to pull the clutch and the transmission, a job they estimated to take 6.5 hours @ $80 an hour (the dealership's rate is $82/hr last time I checked) and I told them to go ahead. That's $520 for labor and who knows what parts might need to be replaced. I can think of a bunch of things that money would be better spent on...

Had the problem been significantly reduced or disappeared altogether, I'd be much angrier at the dealership. As it stands now, I'm still dropping by to talk to someone.

Has anyone heard of an internal clutch/tranny mechanical problem suddenly popping up like this, with the symptoms starting off fierce and then slowly settling down into just strongly noticable?

My trany issues started very quickly. No warning. Good luck.

I talked to Kenneth Prewitt, the service manager at Charles Maund VW, before lunch today. I explained my situation and he offered some suggestions as to what the problem may be. I brought the sample of brake fluid with me and he said the stuff floating inside was most likely a silicon-based material eroding from the inside of the brake lining (I forget his exact description) and said that though it wasn't supposed to happen, it wasn't out of the ordinary. He also explained that the 60k checkup wouldn't have caught the bad fluid because they wouldn't be able to see the color of the fluid and either the silicone substance would be mixed too well in the fluid (assuming the car had just been driven) or would have sunk to the master cylinder (assuming the car had remained still for a time) and therefore out of sight.

Given the symptoms I described, he thought the shifting problem was related to "the reverse switch in the shift assembly at the transmission." I asked him to describe it so I could pass it along to the mechs at the other shop and he said, "it must be round - no flat edges." He said it was a ball bearing-type surface that is in motion with every gear shift.

The car mechanics called a bit ago and relayed what they found during their inspection of the clutch: the pressure plate had two huge cracks in it. They didn't see any damage to the flywheel, but will give it a bit of a resurfacing to make sure. After relaying Prewitt's idea, they didn't think it was cost-effective to examine, but will make sure the car shifts correctly before handing it over.

Had to order and ship in a new 230mm Sachs clutch kit. $521, plus labor to install. Should be ready to take home tomorrow evening.

He also explained that the 60k checkup wouldn't have caught the bad fluid because they wouldn't be able to see the color of the fluid and either the silicone substance would be mixed too well in the fluid (assuming the car had just been driven) or would have sunk to the master cylinder (assuming the car had remained still for a time) and therefore out of sight.

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Umm.. didn't the place that has it now draw some fluid to show you when you were there? So it would have been sitting for awhile, right? If it was as easy as drawing fluid from the brakes and the stealership was supposed to FLUSH the fluid, it doesn't add up. EDIT: You posted that the fluid was changed at 40k, not your 60k one. Still hard to believe.

That's the pressure plate the mechanics removed from my car. With circles I marked the areas where further wear and breakdown were occuring. If you have the thing in your hands, you can see small cracks beginning to appear in some of those areas. The arrow points to a third crack that can't be seen in this picture. Notice the missing "teeth" in the middle.



That's the clutch disc taken from my car. Pretty obvious damage.

More pictures in my gallery, including a closer shot of (what I believe is) the worn clutch bearing at the upper right of these pictures.

SwanTDI, I guess it depends when this crap was introduced to the system. If it happened after the 40k examination, then I can't really fault them. If it happened before, then yeah it doesn't make sense.

Final cost to repair: $1276 for parts and labor. Plus the $216 for the rental car.

Anyone offer any ideas how the pressure plate could fail like this? The mechanics suggested massive overheating, possibly from a driving style with a lot of stop-n-go city driving, riding the clutch, etc. A majority of my miles come from highway driving, but I think I tend to massage the clutch when in lower gears. Still, I don't think I'm hard on it. How long are these things supposed to last? The mechanics said it was unsual for this to happen at 66 thousand miles.

Prewitt got one thing right. When we talked, he said a slipping clutch will catch higher and higher along the path of the pedal travel. The moment I got in and drove the car with the new parts, I noticed the clutch caught far lower to the floor than it used to and was much smoother than it used to be, even before the shifting problem happened. First thing I thought: Wow this feels just like the 04 Jetta 5-speed I tested a while back! The new clutch made a significant difference in the way the car feels.

I'm taking these things with me to the dealership sometime soon and asking Prewitt what he thinks may have caused this. I really want to know if the brake fluid issue is related.

That pressure plate is a mess. It is supposed to have that missing finger though. In what condition is the pressure plate?

It is supposed to have that missing finger though.

Click to expand...

Why?

I'm sorry. I meant to say there was no finger there - there is supposed to be a gap. I think it has something to do with the way it's bolted up.

VelvetFoot, if by pressure plate you mean the thing with the fingers, the rounded backside seems fine. The cracked surface in the first picture is the only place where I remember they found damage. As the circles in the photo show, there are relatively evenly spaced spots near the inner rim that show signs of great stress and wear. They are lighter in color than the rest of the surface, are warped just enough to bend light when looked at from an angle, and many have developed small hairline cracks. The larger, full cracks have these spots at their base as well.

The other part, what I believe is the clutch plate in the second picture, has gouges on both sides of the surface. The gouges are shaped as arcs in the surface material and are few hundredths of an inch deep overall, but approaching 1/16" in some places. These are short arcs tending to be an inch and a half long or so on average.

Not sure if it's relevant or not, but everything was very dirty and touching anything resulting in a lot of dirt/grime/dust on you.

I meant that the pressure plate looks as if there is a finger missing, but that is normal.

I was wondering what the flywheel looks like. It is made of two pieces (at least) that move a small distance in comparison to each other. There was at least one picture on here where the flywheel looked pretty chewed up.

That's interesting...because the mechs said the flywheel looked fine and didn't need to replace it. They said they would "give it a light resurfacing" as a preventative measure and that's all I heard about it. The three parts in the pictures are all they gave back to me and I asked for everything they took out. What part do you identify as the flywheel? Does a new Sachs clutch kit come with a flywheel?

I'm sure someone will correct me, but $521 sounds like the price for a clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel. We've been told that VW does not sell them separately.

If the clutch kit does not come with a flywheel, I would have it resurfaced if there are no defects (cracks deep gouges, severely warped) It depends on the kit, but at the price of breaking the motor and transmission, I would tend to replace the flywheel along with the bearings, pressure plate, and clutch disc.

There is absolutely no reason to replace a non damaged flywheel. This cas is slightly different, but in general for a clutch change there is no need.