2002 New Beetle TDI - No Start

Ritzar12 · Aug 22, 2011

My car went from running fine; to sputtering and running fitfully; to starting at all only after extended cranking; to no starting at all. All of which began after backing over the curb on the way out of the driveway.

I have read the OBD codes and fixed those problems and I have gone through every troubleshooting guide I can locate. Fuel is available at the tank and through the filter. The glow plugs get wet, so I think I am getting fuel to the cylinders. I have an electronic copy of the Bently manual but it hasn't proven to be of much use to me.

The timing belt in overdue for changing. I do not have the tools, facilities, or expertise at this time to replace it myself and the closest 'trusted' TDI mechanic is in San Antonio - 2.5 hours away.

How do I determine what the problem is and how to go about getting it fixed.

I am not adverse to learning how to do this myself. I just need some clear way to determine what needs to be fixed.

Lightflyer1 · Aug 22, 2011

When was the fuel filter changed last? When was the belt changed last and how many miles total and on this belt? When was timing checked last? How old is the battery and when it turns over is it spinning up to speed or slow? What codes are you currently getting and what are they? What tool are you using to read codes?

jettawreck · Aug 22, 2011

Often the diagnosis is more of a job than the repair(s).
How overdue is the TB??
I would not crank the engine any more until it is determined for sure whether or not the TB is still intact and properly tensioned so as not to have "slipped". If it has, continued cranking may just do more damage. Remove the upper TB cover and have a good look w/flashlite and push down on the belt. It should be very tight.

Joe_Meehan · Aug 23, 2011

The timing belt in overdue for changing

I would not worry about anything else until I had that one fixed. There is no way to look at the belt and give a meaningful guess as to when it will go. When it goes it is expensive $$$$. I am sure there are mechanics and or dealers in TX who can take care of this.

Hint: check out the anti-shutter valve.

Lightflyer1 · Aug 23, 2011

It would help if you would define your location better, so we could point you to someone. runonbeer in Austin is a trusted mechanic with a great reputation.

http://www.runonbeer.com/

Ritzar12 · Aug 23, 2011

When was the fuel filter changed last? Brand new: filled with fresh diesel when installed.

When was the belt changed last and how many miles total and on this belt? I do not have any record of the belt having been changed - 157000 miles on the vehicle.

When was timing checked last? I have no method to check the timing - which was fine before this started.

How old is the battery and when it turns over is it spinning up to speed or slow? Battery is less than 1 year old; starter cranks with good speed.

What codes are you currently getting and what are they? The code I got was for a bad glow plug. I replaced the plugs and cleared the codes in hopes of getting more/fresh information to no effect.

What tool are you using to read codes?I bought a code reader specific to Audi/VW systems.

Ritzar12 · Aug 23, 2011

Lightflyer1 said:
It would help if you would define your location better, so we could point you to someone. runonbeer in Austin is a trusted mechanic with a great reputation.

http://www.runonbeer.com/

I live in Corpus Christi, TX

Ritzar12 · Aug 23, 2011

Joe_Meehan said:
The timing belt in overdue for changing

I would not worry about anything else until I had that one fixed. There is no way to look at the belt and give a meaningful guess as to when it will go. When it goes it is expensive $$$$. I am sure there are mechanics and or dealers in TX who can take care of this.

Hint: check out the anti-shutter valve.

Checked the anti-shudder valve as part of a troubleshooting procedure found on this forum.

jettawreck · Aug 23, 2011

Ritzar12 said:
......

When was the belt changed last and how many miles total and on this belt? I do not have any record of the belt having been changed - 157000 miles on the vehicle.

When was timing checked last? I have no method to check the timing - which was fine before this started.

.........
What tool are you using to read codes?I bought a code reader specific to Audi/VW systems.

See my previous post. Inspect the TB system. I believe the '02 was an 80K mile interval, perhaps 100K like the '03's. Regardless if you don't know when/if it was ever done (let alone done correctly) it may have failed. The '03 I bought as a project was driven by prior owner on the original TB until the tensioner failed causing the belt to go slack, shear the teeth off the belt and ruin the valves/lifters at 167K miles. When the timing skips the pistons impact the valves and does damage, usually confined to the top end.
VCDS by ross tech is the only scan tool software other than the dealer system that I'm aware of for checking TDI timing.

Lightflyer1 · Aug 23, 2011

Mechanics listed in my signature. One in San Antonio that some have recommended and runonbeer in Austin and several in DFW area.

Ritzar12 · Aug 23, 2011

Lightflyer1 said:
Mechanics listed in my signature. One in San Antonio that some have recommended and runonbeer in Austin and several in DFW area.

Sadly, I have no realistic method for getting the car to a mechanic in San Antonio. Looks like I will have to throw myself upon the mercy of the dealership.

Lightflyer1 · Aug 23, 2011

Ouch that is gonna hurt. Probably should just sell it to me and start over.

Got a friend with a hitch? Rent a tow dolly. runonbeer has a guy with a tow dolly that drove down to SA and picked up my first Beetle and brought it back for a reasonable fee. He (runonbeer) also travels some for work when he is of a mind to.

Ritzar12 · Sep 21, 2011

Lightflyer1 said:
Ouch that is gonna hurt. Probably should just sell it to me and start over.

The way my finances are going I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford to have it repaired. I'm at wits end. Still doesn't start. Research claims it is worth $4000 as it sits.

whitedog · Sep 21, 2011

Have you checked the timing belt at all? I don't see any mention of that. It is also possible to line up the mark on the flywheel, then look at the pin hole on the pump then pull the vacuum pump and eyeball if things are in the ball park.

Ritzar12 · Sep 21, 2011

Yes, I have checked the timing belt and found it to be the problem. The fuel pump is out of sync thus the car won't start. I am not currently in a position to shell $700-$1200 for the repairs.

runonbeer · Sep 22, 2011

My car went from running fine; to sputtering and running fitfully; to starting at all only after extended cranking; to no starting at all. All of which began after backing over the curb on the way out of the driveway.

a gradual timing belt failure? Never seen that before...

May just need to be re-timed. Lost tension etc. Don't give up on 'er yet.

jettawreck · Sep 22, 2011

Ritzar12 said:
Yes, I have checked the timing belt and found it to be the problem. The fuel pump is out of sync thus the car won't start. I am not currently in a position to shell $700-$1200 for the repairs.

Could be more than just the IP "out of sync", and/or maybe not if you're really lucky. So cost of repairs could be next to nothing, or more than you've estimated, depending on the diagnoisis and who is doing the repairs. Proper diagnosis of the extent of damage (or not) is the key.

Ritzar12 · Sep 22, 2011

runonbeer said:
a gradual timing belt failure? Never seen that before...

May just need to be re-timed. Lost tension etc. Don't give up on 'er yet.

Can you offer some instructions as to how to re-establish the timing?

runonbeer · Sep 22, 2011

you just have to re-align everything using the lock tools, just like you would if you were changing the belt.

Try this: Turn the engine clockwise by hand using a 19mm 12pt socket on the crank bolt. Have someone observe the belt from the top while you do this. Does everything on the top turn like it should? Yes: excellent. re-time it. No: bad news. you probably need head work.

Randall · Sep 22, 2011

Timing Belt

You should see the distruction of a valve as it comes apart and slams around the inside of an engine. You could be risking the block and the head! I wouldn't mess with trying to time an old belt. No Way no How! you might get it in time just to have it throw real bad and smash your head and valves to bits! Turning a three hundred dollar problem into a several thousand dollar problem.

It is possible you have a damaged lifter and valve now and just don't know it. I would pull the valve cover and look at it closley, If there is any damage on the lifters or cam pull the head. If you put a new belt kit in it and didn't catch the damage your in trouble.

I would stop, drop, and roll.

Randall

whitedog · Sep 22, 2011

You can even see the end of the valve stem pointing to the origin of the crack and the final brittle fracture of the valve.

Randall · Sep 27, 2011

I pulled a head off a car a few weeks ago and when we were tapping out the lifters a valve fell out in two pieces! How it didn't bounce around inside the cylinder I have no idea! It was a hairs width from breaking all the way thru.

2002 New Beetle TDI - No Start

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