Ash load in VCDS?

mbesemann

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Location
Gatineau, QC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
Hello,


I had a 5-month affair with a deleted 2011 Golf but the exhaust components are back to stock now. I did not have the DPF cleaned while it was off the car, but I figured at ~116,000kms it shouldnt be too bad yet. I actually had the emissions fix done shortly before deleting everything, do they give you a brand new DPF as part of the fix? If that's the case, I should be golden.


I wanted to check the ash load in my DPF with VCDS to make sure everything was still operating properly. The only value I could see was "oil ash volume - 69ml." The soot mass was blank (although I just read on the ross-tech site that an alternate measuring block might give me this value).


Does 69ml seem like a good value for this mileage? I have no idea what the acceptable range is on these DPFs.


I did go for a ~30min drive after reflashing the stock tune and I did get a fairly long regen (10-15 mins) and one shorter one shortly before returning home.
 

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
You can compare your numbers to hundreds of TDI owners at the thread in the link below.

Clean Diesel DPF Data Collection Thread

MemberName: ksing44 (that's me!)
Model Year: 2010
Model: Golf
Tranny: 6M
Miles:122,947
Oil Ash Volume: 120 ml
Oil Type: Castrol LL03
Avrg. MPG: 40.1

In general, I think mine is average, i.e., ~1ml/1000 miles. Your 116,000 kms is 72,079 miles, so 69mls is right on the money!

DPF is not part of the fix, except for some early 2009 cars with one-piece exhausts.
 
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meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
you can safely ignore the oil ash volume, since it does not mean anything.


some early folks repeated a maximum number, which seems to have been pulled out of thin air by a dealer software vendor.


you should be able to find soot estimate values, which are more useful.


look around MB 240 or so, and in the listing of advance measuring values.
 

mbesemann

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Location
Gatineau, QC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
Your 116,000 kms is 72,079 miles, so 69mls is right on the money!

That's good to know - I'll keep an eye on it to see if it goes up at all in the next 1000 miles.

you can safely ignore the oil ash volume, since it does not mean anything.

some early folks repeated a maximum number, which seems to have been pulled out of thin air by a dealer software vendor.

you should be able to find soot estimate values, which are more useful.

look around MB 240 or so, and in the listing of advance measuring values.
I reapplied my stage 2 tune after about a week of driving on the stock tune to make sure the DPF was still working properly. After going stage 2 though I didn't notice any regens at all for a while, so I decided to check in VCDS. My soot load was around 19g - did a forced regen through the software and it got down to 3g (not 0 for some reason?)
 

ihatespeed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Location
holbrook, ma
TDI
11 tdi wagon 6mt 15 golf 6mt (Wife's) 2000 Ford 350 7.3l 6mt 4x4 (technically a TDI)
the fix only comes with a new catalyst, the bigger one, I'm running a stage 2 now, and just popped an engine light, shows particulate trap under performing and something about the egr, soot in the tail pipe, so I figure its a cracked dpf and clogged egr. since I have the fix and a flashzilla when its convenient ill load the stock tune, wait for the code to come back if it disappears, and get me some o that warranty.
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Tho oil ash value only increases every ten thousand miles or so, and does not change at all in between.




That's good to know - I'll keep an eye on it to see if it goes up at all in the next 1000 miles.



I reapplied my stage 2 tune after about a week of driving on the stock tune to make sure the DPF was still working properly. After going stage 2 though I didn't notice any regens at all for a while, so I decided to check in VCDS. My soot load was around 19g - did a forced regen through the software and it got down to 3g (not 0 for some reason?)

and the calculated soot is not forced to zero on most regeneration events.
 
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billy.whizz

Active member
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk (cornwall)
TDI
golf mk6
oil/ash volume

hello guys, I was chatting with Meerschm yesterday, im posting some data I downloaded from my golf over the last 18 months or so. what I have found is the ash reading shows up on every download.my golf is a 2010 year mk6 1.6 tdi.
ddress 01: Engine (03L 906 023 A)
14:51:16
IDE00019 Voltage terminal 30 12.424 V
IDE00167 Exhaust temperature 1 bank 1 20.0 °C
IDE00169 Exhaust temperature 2 bank 1 20.0 °C
IDE00427-ENG101722 Particle filter: difference pressure-DIP_PF 0.75 hPa
IDE00428-ENG100917 Particle filter: offset for differential press.-DIP_PF_AD[0] 4.15 hPa
IDE00433-ENG103279 Particle filter: oil ash volume-MASS_ASH_PF 24.8729944 g
IDE00434-ENG102050 Particle filter: soot mass calculated-MASS_SOOT_SIM_PF 19.08 g
IDE00435-ENG101197 Particle filter: soot mass measured-MASS_SOOT_PHY_PF -0.76 g
IDE00436-ENG102397 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration-DIST_RGN 255 miles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (03L 906 023 A)
15:24:58
IDE00019 Voltage terminal 30 14.005 V
IDE00167 Exhaust temperature 1 bank 1 64.2 °C
IDE00169 Exhaust temperature 2 bank 1 64.2 °C
IDE00427-ENG101722 Particle filter: difference pressure-DIP_PF 1.49 hPa
IDE00428-ENG100917 Particle filter: offset for differential press.-DIP_PF_AD[0] 2.82 hPa
IDE00433-ENG103279 Particle filter: oil ash volume-MASS_ASH_PF 24.9800116 g
IDE00434-ENG102050 Particle filter: soot mass calculated-MASS_SOOT_SIM_PF 16.08 g
IDE00435-ENG101197 Particle filter: soot mass measured-MASS_SOOT_PHY_PF -3.26 g
IDE00436-ENG102397 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration-DIST_RGN 245 miles
Address 01: Engine (03L 906 023 A)
09:35:58
IDE00019 Voltage terminal 30 14.231 V
IDE00167 Exhaust temperature 1 bank 1 139.3 °C
IDE00169 Exhaust temperature 2 bank 1 139.3 °C
IDE00427-ENG101722 Particle filter: difference pressure-DIP_PF 5.47 hPa
IDE00428-ENG100917 Particle filter: offset for differential press.-DIP_PF_AD[0] 4.15 hPa
IDE00433-ENG103279 Particle filter: oil ash volume-MASS_ASH_PF 25.1043631 g
IDE00434-ENG102050 Particle filter: soot mass calculated-MASS_SOOT_SIM_PF 14.86 g
IDE00435-ENG101197 Particle filter: soot mass measured-MASS_SOOT_PHY_PF -3.26 g
IDE00436-ENG102397 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration-DIST_RGN 215 miles VIN: WVWZZZ1KZBW029218 License Plate:
Mileage: 53171 Repair Order
Address 01: Engine (03L 906 023 A)
16:10:38
IDE00019 Voltage terminal 30 12.424 V
IDE00167 Exhaust temperature 1 bank 1 20.0 °C
IDE00169 Exhaust temperature 2 bank 1 20.0 °C
IDE00427-ENG101722 Particle filter: difference pressure-DIP_PF 0.00 hPa
IDE00428-ENG100917 Particle filter: offset for differential press.-DIP_PF_AD[0] 2.74 hPa
IDE00433-ENG103279 Particle filter: oil ash volume-MASS_ASH_PF 25.1544114 g
IDE00434-ENG102050 Particle filter: soot mass calculated-MASS_SOOT_SIM_PF 6.94 g
IDE00435-ENG101197 Particle filter: soot mass measured-MASS_SOOT_PHY_PF -4.72 g
IDE00436-ENG102397 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration-DIST_RGN 26.0 km
VIN: WVWZZZ1KZBW029218 License Plate:
Mileage: 53171 Repair Order:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (03L 906 023 A)
16:10:38
IDE00019 Voltage terminal 30 12.424 V
IDE00167 Exhaust temperature 1 bank 1 20.0 °C
IDE00169 Exhaust temperature 2 bank 1 20.0 °C
IDE00427-ENG101722 Particle filter: difference pressure-DIP_PF 0.00 hPa
IDE00428-ENG100917 Particle filter: offset for differential press.-DIP_PF_AD[0] 2.74 hPa
IDE00433-ENG103279 Particle filter: oil ash volume-MASS_ASH_PF 25.1544114 g
IDE00434-ENG102050 Particle filter: soot mass calculated-MASS_SOOT_SIM_PF 6.94 g
IDE00435-ENG101197 Particle filter: soot mass measured-MASS_SOOT_PHY_PF -4.72 g
IDE00436-ENG102397 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration-DIST_RGN 26.0 km
 

billy.whizz

Active member
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk (cornwall)
TDI
golf mk6
sorry I couldn't get more info on this last post the mileage over the 4 is from 52441 miles to 53171, what I have found is that it will regen about 20/21 grm soot if the enigine is up too normal temp and other conditions are right. also once it starts too regen you don't need too thrash it just normal 55mph driving ,if you stop the engine ,on restarting it will continue the regen, even if left overnight but it must have the engine at normal temp, it will even regen (once started) if left to fast idle my ecu uses the uds system . im using vcds and now also a download app from a guy in Italy called vw dpf, its the best £3 ive ever spent . just prop the phone up on the dash and you can read the data in real time while running.
 
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meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Thanks.


the software in your car is quite a bit different than that in the US market cars with the 2.0 liter CR engines.


wonder what they use as inputs for the oil ash volume estimate. (and what the value is used for in terms of diagnostics)



it also seems your measured soot value tends to be negative.


your estimated soot value setting to call for DPF regens seems different as well. ( a little higher)
 

billy.whizz

Active member
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk (cornwall)
TDI
golf mk6
Mike, my readings are kinda messed up I think , long story short, when I bought the car a I had a guy I knew who was supposed too be a electronics diagnostic whizz, he looked at it and said that the soot readings should not be negative and reset it too zero, what I now know is, he reset the ash and soot levels too zero as if it had a new dpf, idiot, since then I have a vcds and have learned on my own and with help on here and from you what it all means, and have reset the ash readings a couple of times too the level that fits the mileage and usage of the car.hence the negative readings , as the ash level maybe a few gms out of sycn .maybe it was always like this from new as it had 1 owner from new and dealer serviced only. who knows.but it regens every 300 miles or when it gets too 20-21 soots gms and regens down too between 5.5 too 7 gms. never failed yet .
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Good for you to use the VCDS, and learn what normal looks like


it is also a nice hobby.
 

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
I also have the same 1.6 TDI engine (2011 model year, CAYC motor code, 77 KW power).
Mileage on the car: 128550 km / 79877 miles
DPF filter ash load: 38.7457 g

If you count ash load per Km, then your car is very similar to mine.
Mine regens about once every 550 km / 340 miles.

I do not monitor any values but just distance between regens using the trip computer
 

billy.whizz

Active member
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk (cornwall)
TDI
golf mk6
Henrick, many thanks for your reply,ive just looked up my old figures and yes they are very similar, so what mines showing is about right, I tried a few times readapting the ash and soot figures before I got it about right. that was about a year ago. I would not recommend doing what I did its a gamble with the soot levels that you can have, now it seems fine and regens properly. the problems I do have is I don't get too do a decent run every day most days it never gets too temp. but on a Wednesday each week I have too travel 39 miles so if a regen is near then it seems too work . good luck with your car may it last a while yet.
 

mbesemann

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Location
Gatineau, QC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
Does anyone know what conditions trigger a regen? I have a 23g soot load and still have not had a regen since I last performed one manually:


 

billy.whizz

Active member
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk (cornwall)
TDI
golf mk6
yours should have started a regen by now ,if the soot load gets too 24mg and onwards then you have a problem. in the uk version soot load of 20/21 starts a regen and also the pressure reading pre and post dpf would control this as well ,engine temp, has too be normal working level ,if you have other related faults then these could stop it doing a regen. if you look at my readouts then that will give you an idea of whats happening,an auto scan will show any faults and mil codes . the fact that you can manualy perform a regen suggests that maybe other faults are not stopping it !!.
 

mbesemann

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Location
Gatineau, QC
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
yours should have started a regen by now ,if the soot load gets too 24mg and onwards then you have a problem. in the uk version soot load of 20/21 starts a regen and also the pressure reading pre and post dpf would control this as well ,engine temp, has too be normal working level ,if you have other related faults then these could stop it doing a regen. if you look at my readouts then that will give you an idea of whats happening,an auto scan will show any faults and mil codes . the fact that you can manualy perform a regen suggests that maybe other faults are not stopping it !!.

Looks like I spoke too soon, after my last drive today it finally did a regen. Weird that the soot went that high, maybe the conditions weren't right on my previous drive.
 

billy.whizz

Active member
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk (cornwall)
TDI
golf mk6
im glad its regened for you ,phew relief , I would think that if you had done some short drives and it never got too full temp the soot just got that high. keep an eye on it and see what happens next time .
 

Henrick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Ireland
TDI
Golf VI TDI, 77 kW (CAYC)
Never worry about a regen unless you get the DPF icon on the dash.
Once it's there, take it to the highway immediately, it should regen.
If something goes wrong, it will trigger a CEL.
Once you have a CEL, then stop, it's time to worry and investigate things using VCDS. But before that I'd really advise not to try to "tune" some settings.
 

piotrsko

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Location
Reno Nv
TDI
2013 Golf, 2000 F-250 (7.3)
Don't know if they can tell, but the ecm keeps track of "revision" changes that happen every time you change the software.

Hint: there should be no reason that you have 15 software changes logged.
 
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