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Non VW Group Diesels This section is for discusion of Non VWGroup Diesels.

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Old August 9th, 2018, 17:13   #1666
Dangerous_Dan
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Default Your mileage may vary...

If my Jag was getting 30 MPG on the highway I would send it in for service...
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Old August 10th, 2018, 06:44   #1667
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Even the ratings for the gas model look low. Ford, Chevy, and Honda are all in the 30s.
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Old August 10th, 2018, 07:21   #1668
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I suspect Mazda's 6-speed automatic is hurting them, not having the right ratio, when most everyone else is moving to 8/9-speed automatics and CVTs.
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Old August 10th, 2018, 11:09   #1669
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for comparison ....were there updated fuel economy #s from EPA after VW TDI fix for 2.0 TDI models?
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Old August 13th, 2018, 20:13   #1670
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After all these years talking about diesel and Mazda is not even close to the Equinox/Terrain MPG diesel models. Ok the absolute mileage values are normally under-estimated by the EPA for light duty diesel cars but we are comparing fairly similar vehicles in my view for long term real life MPG.

Apparently Mazda executives think optimizing for performance in detriment of efficiency will 'pay off' in the USA in the long run.

I doubt it very much.

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Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
Looks like EPA fuel economy numbers have been released for the CX-5 SkyActiv-D.

It's... it's not good.

https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?...39781&id=40522



And for CO2 emissions (including upstream) and petroleum consumption...



That's brutal. (There's no smog ratings for the diesels yet.)
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Old August 13th, 2018, 21:56   #1671
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I'm averaging 37 mpg with my 535d. The knuckleheads at the EPA say it should be 30.

Just the opposite with our last gasser, a 2008 Buick Enclave. Combined was supposed to be 20. Couldn't get it above 18.

Change your figures by at least 30%. Diesel wins.

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Old August 15th, 2018, 15:50   #1672
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Agree. It is the 'diesel vs diesel' where Mazda is not winning right now. Let's see if Mazda manages to sell a few CX-5 diesels to the public and we start getting real life MPG to compare with the Chevy Equinox diesel.

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I'm averaging 37 mpg with my 535d. The knuckleheads at the EPA say it should be 30.
Just the opposite with our last gasser, a 2008 Buick Enclave. Combined was supposed to be 20. Couldn't get it above 18.
Change your figures by at least 30%. Diesel wins.
TM
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Old August 16th, 2018, 09:56   #1673
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Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Agree. It is the 'diesel vs diesel' where Mazda is not winning right now. Let's see if Mazda manages to sell a few CX-5 diesels to the public and we start getting real life MPG to compare with the Chevy Equinox diesel.
My daughter's CT200h was supposed to average around 40 mpg per EPA. It didn't. It was closer to 48 mpg consistently. The CT200h as is the Mazda likely was designed for the European market where the mpg testing is different than the EPA.

The "American" diesels are likely designed for the EPA testing cycle, so engine parameters, transmission shift points, etc. are going to be different.

As a result, the Mazda may not do well on the EPA test cycle but be much better if you look at how it does in real life.

TM
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Old August 16th, 2018, 11:20   #1674
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I think that may be a good point TM
There may also be a penalty for a low compression ratio
If the diesel premium is low, it could still have a chance in the market
And where does Skyactiv X fit?
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Old August 16th, 2018, 19:12   #1675
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Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
I suspect Mazda's 6-speed automatic is hurting them, not having the right ratio, when most everyone else is moving to 8/9-speed automatics and CVTs.

My take is Mazda's 6 speed transmission is adequate for the diesel. Mazda vehicles using the 6 speed are competitive in mpg for the gasoline models. Fuel economy ratings for 6 speed automatic equipped Mazda 6 diesel are quite good in UK.
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Old August 16th, 2018, 20:22   #1676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
My daughter's CT200h was supposed to average around 40 mpg per EPA. It didn't. It was closer to 48 mpg consistently. The CT200h as is the Mazda likely was designed for the European market where the mpg testing is different than the EPA.

The "American" diesels are likely designed for the EPA testing cycle, so engine parameters, transmission shift points, etc. are going to be different.

As a result, the Mazda may not do well on the EPA test cycle but be much better if you look at how it does in real life.

TM
The problem isn't what it actually does in real life, it's what's on paper. Right now the diesel CX-5 is an absolute crapshoot because 90% of the population isn't educated enough about cars (let alone diesel), to understand EPA figures are just estimates and a car can either under achieve or over achieve

If I knew absolutely nothing about cars and walked into a mazda a dealer, I would more then likely buy the gasser based off the EPA fuel economy numbers, since the diesel is more then likely to be at least 1500 to 2000 more then the gasser and there is literally zero benefit if we're talking just about fuel economy

I'm really curious how many they sell, but when your diesel model has literally no advantage over the gasser in terms of economy (EPA rated), but costs more, I can't see how it will sell.
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Old August 17th, 2018, 06:57   #1677
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I have been waiting for one of these, along with the Forester Diesel, but I'm glad I kept my '10 ML350. Tuned and deleted, I am pulling back 34.5mpg on the hwy at 68mph, fully loading with childrens, big dog, and all of our camping stuff.

If they (Subaru and/or Mazda) would have entered the US market a while ago, I would have considered them just for uniqueness. But now, my ML is unique enough (and I have a bunch of money into it) that I should keep it for a while. I just bought a hitch for it, so hopefully, I can also pull a small trailer when the time comes.
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Old August 17th, 2018, 07:00   #1678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
My daughter's CT200h was supposed to average around 40 mpg per EPA. It didn't. It was closer to 48 mpg consistently. The CT200h as is the Mazda likely was designed for the European market where the mpg testing is different than the EPA.

The "American" diesels are likely designed for the EPA testing cycle, so engine parameters, transmission shift points, etc. are going to be different.

As a result, the Mazda may not do well on the EPA test cycle but be much better if you look at how it does in real life.

TM
I think that it's more indicative of the test not reflecting real world for hybrids and diesels. A lot of hybrids beat the EPA numbers because the are driven more on battery and also have the stop/start feature. Diesels have always done better because the test doesn't take into account the longer distance cruising that more diesel drivers do.
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Old August 17th, 2018, 18:08   #1679
tikal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.2TDI View Post
The problem isn't what it actually does in real life, it's what's on paper. Right now the diesel CX-5 is an absolute crapshoot because 90% of the population isn't educated enough about cars (let alone diesel), to understand EPA figures are just estimates and a car can either under achieve or over achieve

If I knew absolutely nothing about cars and walked into a mazda a dealer, I would more then likely buy the gasser based off the EPA fuel economy numbers, since the diesel is more then likely to be at least 1500 to 2000 more then the gasser and there is literally zero benefit if we're talking just about fuel economy

I'm really curious how many they sell, but when your diesel model has literally no advantage over the gasser in terms of economy (EPA rated), but costs more, I can't see how it will sell.
Good points. The image of the mediocre published MPG numbers is not a good sign for Mazda to launch its diesel engine(s) in North America and compete successfully against the Equinox/Terrain diesel models.

I am thinking of when Honda brought its hybrid Accord for 'performance boost' and the MPG was not that stellar. How well did it sell?
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Old August 17th, 2018, 22:09   #1680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Good points. The image of the mediocre published MPG numbers is not a good sign for Mazda to launch its diesel engine(s) in North America and compete successfully against the Equinox/Terrain diesel models.
I am thinking of when Honda brought its hybrid Accord for 'performance boost' and the MPG was not that stellar. How well did it sell?
The very first gen? No idea, but I'm guessing not very well considering it was a v6 hybrid (no clue how they thought that would be a good idea).

It will be interesting to see how it does... So far Mazda isn't even listing the diesel on their site, so the epa numbers are still meaningless at this point
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