Dpf and egr delete with full exhaust are there power gains from that alone?

oilhammer · Apr 2, 2019

FWIW, I have modified every single TDI I have ever owned, including all the ones I have now. So it isn't like I was telling you to leave it alone. And to be honest, given the rise of post-fix problems that I have seen, and the fact that the emissions control devices were/are largely a farce to begin with in the skewed eyes of the EPA, I'm not sure I wouldn't pursue a similar tactic if I owned a 2009+ TDI. Although I would not have had any "fix" done anyway, but I realize many are purchasing these cars like that already.

I just wish these "deletes" allowed for a conventional one-way catalyst to be in the system like the VE and PD TDIs, to at least lessen some of the smell. They already can be tuned to not have any visible smoke, just like the older cars. But so far none of them (delete kits) seem to allow for this. I hate stinky smoky diesels. But I hate unreliable ones too. So...

Kevinski4 · Apr 3, 2019

oilhammer said:
<snip>
I just wish these "deletes" allowed for a conventional one-way catalyst to be in the system like the VE and PD TDIs, to at least lessen some of the smell. They already can be tuned to not have any visible smoke, just like the older cars. But so far none of them (delete kits) seem to allow for this. I hate stinky smoky diesels. But I hate unreliable ones too. So...

Pretty sure both the main sellers of kits offer conventional DOC's as an option.

yahmon · Apr 9, 2019

oilhammer said:
FWIW, I have modified every single TDI I have ever owned, including all the ones I have now. So it isn't like I was telling you to leave it alone. And to be honest, given the rise of post-fix problems that I have seen, and the fact that the emissions control devices were/are largely a farce to begin with in the skewed eyes of the EPA, I'm not sure I wouldn't pursue a similar tactic if I owned a 2009+ TDI. Although I would not have had any "fix" done anyway, but I realize many are purchasing these cars like that already.
I just wish these "deletes" allowed for a conventional one-way catalyst to be in the system like the VE and PD TDIs, to at least lessen some of the smell. They already can be tuned to not have any visible smoke, just like the older cars. But so far none of them (delete kits) seem to allow for this. I hate stinky smoky diesels. But I hate unreliable ones too. So...

Cat deletes are optional at a lot of tuners in Europe. Did a Benz recently and left it in.

FlipOne513 · Apr 10, 2019

Mongler98 said:
Bottom line, parts are cheap, doing mods to prolong the life of the engine is fairly pointless.

I hope your joking, I’m I just not catching your sarcasm? Parts are cheap? You think $1600 just for parts not including labor to replace the DPF is cheap. “Doing mods to prolong the life of the engine is fairly pointless” What???? Am i missing something here?

FlipOne513 · Apr 10, 2019

Just read my above post and realized that i sound like a dick. Not my intention just curious as to wether or not you are joking or if I’m just missing something. Thank you.

Mongler98 · Apr 10, 2019

I'm not joking.
Parts are cheap, relatively so.
Go check bbn out what similar parts are for higher quality cars are.
Buying any car is pointless to say it only cost the value. Car purchases are (used or new) valued at the cost of maintenance.
Cars are disposable and are made as such, well on the economy side of auto, like vw, Toyota, and just about any car under $40k
$1600 is not a small sum by any means for a car like this but that said, if you cant afford the parts, dont complain about the cost.
At that price, leave it alone, your not getting any mpg or power increase from it and if you some how did, it's not worth the price and mpg. Best bang for your buck is a tune and possible nozzles.

Yourbuddysatin · Apr 10, 2019

There are always PROs and CONs to everything you do or don’t do to a vehicle. The diesel realm is not cheap in all reality. Don’t like the cost of modding or maintenance sell it and go buy a 1992 Honda Civic.

turbobrick240 · Apr 10, 2019

You can spend plenty modding an old civic too. Much easier/cheaper to hit 500+ hp with one though.

Yourbuddysatin · Apr 10, 2019

Exactly

Piranhafreak · Apr 10, 2019

I agree and disagree with some of this. Parts prices for this car compared to some other you could say the TDI is a cheap engine to mod. But then compared to a Honda Civic not so much. But for me I bought the sportwagen because that’s the car I wanted so cheap parts or not I’m going to make it what I want regardless of the cost. If I wanted to do a cheap high hp car I’d by a civic si or something like that. Or if I wanted to burn money I’d by a bmw 335 or something like that. For me the sportwagen is an affordable car with lots of potential. It will be a fun station wagon and that what I was looking for.

FlipOne513 · Apr 10, 2019

To each his own i guess but I for one do not think that doing mods to prolong the life of your engine is pointless.

Mongler98 · Apr 11, 2019

FlipOne513 said:
To each his own i guess but I for one do not think that doing mods to prolong the life of your engine is pointless.

Well it's a give and take. More power = less life in the end miles of the car.
Better parts to fix known issues, of course, we all love to improve. But to delete an emission and modify to the extent that no power or mpg benefits are made just to extend the life of a car that statistically will be totaled in a wreck long before the engine stops! Pointless other than preference.

Yourbuddysatin · Apr 11, 2019

Fist bump mongler!

Curious Chris · Apr 11, 2019

Piranhafreak said:
Well I decided to order and get the Rawtek Dpf Egr delete with cat and full exhaust as with there sale now is a good time so I will get a retune after see where I’m at and take the next step from there. Guess I will be looking at a possible turbo upgrade

. I have a Rawtek delete in my garage that I was going to put on my 2011 Jetta Sport Wagon.

BRIAN427COBRA · Apr 22, 2019

I fix 737s for a living, I have 750k tdi miles, the only tdi to leave me on the side of the road is my 2015 Passat, HPFP failed with 27k on the car, so before I soup this one up I am going to replace the CP4 pump with a CP3, because I fix airplanes for a living maximum reliability comes first, my advice is to upgrade the cars reliability first then hot rod it.

oilhammer · Apr 22, 2019

Except when a car quits running, it doesn't fall out of the sky. Gravity's a *****.

Rogo · Apr 25, 2019

Mongler....how can you possible try and sell that deleting the DPF will NOT either raise mpg, boost power, or both?

There are clearly results all across the automotive world, diesel and gasser's alike, that have benefited from getting rid of the excessive emissions systems. TDI's included.

I can understand if you are against the mods for whatever reason whether it's environmental or just a stocker mentality. But to try and sell something that is clearly false, is something else.

Yourbuddysatin · Apr 25, 2019

Deleting the def will not help anything unless the car gets tuned for it.....

Lightflyer1 · Apr 25, 2019

It won't boost power as that takes more fuel to accomplish. Only a tune will do that. It may get slightly better economy due to no dpf regenerations. But you should only be getting 1 or 2 per tank of fuel. They only last for 10 minutes or so each and don't really consume that much fuel, so the gain will be small.

adrian537 · May 12, 2019

to mod/delete or not to mod/delete in los angeles? that is the question.

Lightflyer1 · May 12, 2019

If you delete you will more than likely have issues in California. It is my understanding that they do a visual check for items as well as a computer check. If they spot something missing or that doesn't belong there, fail. A tune only you may have no issues with.

adrian537 · May 12, 2019

Lightflyer1 said:
If you delete you will more than likely have issues in California. It is my understanding that they do a visual check for items as well as a computer check. If they spot something missing or that doesn't belong there, fail. A tune only you may have no issues with.

so the car will fail based on visual check only? i know they plug their module in the OBD2 port and they don't even put the car on the dyno anymore. if the tune is for deletes and no codes are showing will the car still fail?

Lightflyer1 · May 12, 2019

Being that I am in Texas and have no direct knowledge, try this:

"Performing Emissions Testing in California
During a smog check, your vehicle will be inspected for its emissions and a visual and functional inspection will also be performed. During the emissions test, measures will be taken to see how much CO, CO2, HC, O2 and NOx your vehicle emits. The physical inspection will look at whether your vehicle and its exhaust system, work to limit emissions."

https://www.emissions.org/loc/california-emissions-testing/

I would assume from this that if your exhaust isn't stock with all parts in place, or have CARB approved parts instead, it will fail.

740GLE · May 13, 2019

Moving out off CA is prob the easiest thing.

edatainc · May 13, 2019

I asked that question of the Malone folks. There are small gains but not worth the money until you go to a larger turbo.

futat2 · May 13, 2019

adrian537 said:
so the car will fail based on visual check only? i know they plug their module in the OBD2 port and they don't even put the car on the dyno anymore. if the tune is for deletes and no codes are showing will the car still fail?

you will still fail. your car will never finish the initial emissions cycle. The tune will keep the dash light from turning on but the tester will still pick up the incomplete signal.

Piranhafreak · May 14, 2019

This is what a tuner sent to me when asking the question of delete and retuning

“On stock turbo it's only around 8-10whp/15-25wtq depending on dpf condition, but does liven things up a bit for sustained hard use.”

Yourbuddysatin · May 15, 2019

No way....

740GLE · May 16, 2019

IE it's way better for spiking EGT.

Biggest draw back I'd see from emissions delete would crazy long warm up times in winter without EGR. Winter front would be mandatory for those in northern climates IMO.

Owain@malonetuning · May 16, 2019

Lower EGTs, and more importantly lower sustained for continuous hard use like canyon carving/track use. EGT limiter is there either way and it's best to keep it intact.

Had a customer send me a graph this morning, 157-> 167whp and 284 -> 304lbft from the exhaust. Think his dpf might've been a little more clogged up than usual, but have seen similar at the shop.

Dpf and egr delete with full exhaust are there power gains from that alone?

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