turbo upgrade for DD?

I run a 17/22 with mods in my sig. I like the combo BUT its very smoky down low til the turbo lights and I dont like the lag down low. Ive searched on turbos and theres so many opinions and reliability issues on turbos. Can you guys recommend me an upgrade that will eithe rgive me the same or more power than my current turbo but not have so much lag down low and offer more boost down low that will bolt on without too much trouble?

GTD1752vrk is what I am going for next! Apparently this turbo is used in BMW Diesel applications with engine code B47D20. There are a few forum members here that successfully have installed this turbo in their daily drivers. It's good for about 230HP with the supporting mods which you seem to have. There are several European vendors where these turbos can be purchased.
I am sure others will chime in with more turbo experience than myself. Good luck in your search and please do share which turbo choice you will make.

How does that compare to the gtd1756vrk?

Seems like an odd performance parts list.
Stage 5 on some low power nozzles? 3" exhaust? Cam with no head work?
Seems like a bolt on build vs an actually properly performance build.

I bought it that way years ago and it runs like a top. What would you change? Whats wrong with it? Im a ford guy so Im not up to speed with VW too much.

panteramatt said:

I bought it that way years ago and it runs like a top. What would you change? Whats wrong with it? Im a ford guy so Im not up to speed with VW too much.

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Nothing wrong with this list. Just a bit of a $spender vs power adder.
Cams dont really do much without some head work (port and polish and or bigger valves) unless you run. Higher rpms help big time though and with the tune you have and up you have are good for that.
Not 100% sure what size those nozzles are, but if its stock on a different vehicle it's just a mild low tier upgrade. Larger nozzles. Granted its cheaper but.......
Turbo upgrade and nozzles would probably be only thjng I'd upgrade u less your willing to do head work.
If you go with larger nozzles, egt gauge will help.

Thanx. So is there a good bolt on turbo upgrade that will spool faster than this hybrid I have now? Looking for better down low power and less smoke not to win races

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=497265


Read this thread.

Yea I read that and it looks like a good way to go. From what ive gathered is it will bolt right up but I will have to remove my downpipe and get a new v clamp end welded on correct?

What boost are you running with the 17/22? Maybe just crank it up a little?

It hits around 26-28 on top end but it lacks big time under 2000 rpms. Its like a light switch affect. I just want a smooth power with less smoke

panteramatt said:

It hits around 26-28 on top end but it lacks big time under 2000 rpms. Its like a light switch affect. I just want a smooth power with less smoke

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Yea, your at a little bit of the edge here. The most I have seen is 1800 rpms on some builds but imo, just make it rev higher. My gt2052 didnt kick in till 2600 but didnt max out the curve until like 5500ish
As I understood this, this is where vtn turbos shine
I'm not a turbo expert or a runner so dont listen to me without some salt grains.
You will probably benefit more from a custom tune that sends less fuel down low. Less smoke =more efficient = more power if done right.

Yea but I want a linear power curve not this annoying light switch affect. My wife drives the car and its even worse and would be easier for her to drive if there were more tq and boost down low

panteramatt said:

Yea but I want a linear power curve not this annoying light switch affect. My wife drives the car and its even worse and would be easier for her to drive if there were more tq and boost down low

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then go buy a tesla


or better yet, you want power, just drive in your power curve and get good
go do autocross

So I guess all these cars drive this way no matter what you do is what your telling me. That I gotta rev the piss out of it to get it to go anywhere? The tq a diesel can provide should not drive like a small 2 stroke. I have 2 other built diesel trucks and although they are autos there is always power when I need it no matter where Im at. I find it hard to believe that this small light car cant drive like this too and I believe these newer style turbos can achieve just that I just goota figure out which one to go with. Oh, and your smart ass reply aint helping either. If I wanted to buy a ****ing tesla I would! If you dont know the answer just scroll on.

panteramatt,
Detune the car and put a vnt15 in it. Now will you lose performance?
Yes! For your wife as a daily driver, might be just fine. But realistically
to keep the performance you just have to drive it like it oughta' be.
I have a similar setup, see my sig, 17/22 stage 4 (26psi tune). Note though
the upgraded intake and SMIC, more air sooner helps for a more linear response.

Cruises great on the highway in the mid 2krpm range, it is NOT meant
for anything much less than 1800.
It'll loaf along at that, but I'll downshift if I need the go pedal mode.

My advice is accept the setup and tune for what it
is, high performance that needs to be driven hard to make the most of it.
A smaller ball bearing turbo will spool quicker/sooner, and yes, you'll have to modify
the downpipe.

Thanx but couldnt I just bolt on one of these newer turbos and not only get more power but a smoother powerband?

panteramatt said:

Thanx but couldnt I just bolt on one of these newer turbos and not only get more power but a smoother powerband?

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no not really
you can raise the curve but typically you just end up shifting it around
you could always go with a compound turbo slap a vr6 supper charger belt driven and make 14psi at 1600 RPMs that feeds into the 17/22
or get an electric turbo hybrid $$$$$$$$ it would be cheaper by about 10 grand to buy a used porsche lol

what i really thing is that your set up is just less than ideal for reality. lots of bolt on parts and a HUGE tune
i would go with a better tune to even out the torque curve

I suspect part of your problem, even with a different turbo and a retune,
is your stage 2 cam. Top end power, but at the price of low end torque.
I asked Jeff about a cam for mine, and his response was you lose torque.

I've thought about an upgraded cam, but then I do a fair bit of towing.
Soooo I'll leave the cam alone and keep it stock. You've got an aggressive
performance tune and hardware, live with that and be happy.

Russ is right. Normally a diesel make double the torque than Hp but when increasing the top end for HP torque is sacrificed.

Yourbuddysatin said:

Russ is right. Normally a diesel make double the torque than Hp but when increasing the top end for HP torque is sacrificed.

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It's not the diesel alone that does this, it's the crank arm position vs power delivery during combustion.
You can do the same with a gas engine.
Hp is calculated from torque and rpms. I do t like how most people and companies spout off hp figures with out a graph to show the torque curve. It's not double, never has been, its only more or less than double at specific low rpms, I have rarely seen power graphs that show otherwise.

I'd get a GTC or GTD series turbo. If you're going to shell out the money, I don't know why you'd want to use the antique turbos.

To the OP:
Have you ruled out turbo vanes being stuck or restricted by carbon buildup?
With the vacuum actuator disconnected one should be able to move the vanes lever arm freely. You can also check it by putting a vacuum gun on the actuator and note how many inches of vacuum it takes before the actuator starts moving, and it should reach full stroke at 20”.
A 17/22 really needs to get regular and sustained loading or the vanes will carbon up and it will exacerbate any boost lag, regular dose of elevated egt is crucial for them. It’s a good turbo but it doesn’t adapt well to regular use below the fat part of the curve.
I think you said that you purchased the car in it’s present state of mod, correct?
Do you know if RC5 was done after all the mechanical mods or during? Was it done at a GTG where Jeff would have had the opportunity to dial it in?
The T5 nozzles are not optimum for what you have but it may be worth having the car checked out and dialed in by someone who can tweak timing, injection quantity, and various other small things to get the most of the tune and parts combination.

Sounds like you either have a sooted up turbo or need a tune revision. That huge spike in tq can easily be fixed via tuning.

Yourbuddysatin said:

Russ is right. Normally a diesel make double the torque than Hp but when increasing the top end for HP torque is sacrificed.

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Again, depends on the Diesel...the cummins in my sig is more like 3x. And we are talking published peaks.

But anyway, with a 17/22 already in place I'd spend the $$$$ on making the injectors bigger.
cheers,
Douglas

17/22s need constant Italian tune-ups or the vanes get sticky. I've cleaned mine up before and got really nice results, but it's far easier to just keep it moving with your right foot. Mine is very responsive down low, might have something else going on there.

With a catch can, an upgraded SMIC and a PD150 intake with an EGR
delete, my 17/22 runs great. It did take all of the above though to get it
performing consistently, and I certainly don't spare the right foot.
FE?, avg around 40mpg. I'm not complaining, towing my 1200# teardrop
I've got all the power I need winding through the Appalachians and cruising
at 70-75 at 32mpg.

As many posts above have already said, I too am a big proponent - and likely one of the first - of the GTD1752VRK for an excellent compromise of low-end transient response and top-end HP capability (~230 - far more than your current mods support).

There is no OEM GTD1756VRK. That's just some aftermarket compressor wheel tacked on, which I don't recommend, certainly not in your application.
https://www.turbomaster.info/eng/catalogs/model.php?base=garrett&pagina=GT17V

I drove a similar setup as the OPs for years in my Wagon: 17/22, 11mm pump, PD150 breathing mods, Bosio PP502s. It was great, but it would smoke like crazy if you caught it below 2000 RPM in 3rd or higher gears. And the turbo would carbon up unless I got it good and hot once in a while. At that time I was using the car for track days so usually the turbo was clean.

When I replaced the engine several years ago I didn't want to replace rods in a brand new engine so I dialed it back to PP357s, a VNT-15, and Rocketchip Stage 3+ (19 PSI). Honestly, I don't want for power on the street, it doesn't smoke, and FE is 5-7 MPG better than I was getting with the 17/22 and more fuel. It's not a bad option. And you won't bend rods, if you haven't already.