About to buy 04 Jetta GLS TDI that cuts out while driving. Help me figure out...

My brother and I found an 04 Jetta TDI at a local used car lot. They had it in the back because it has issues. They said that it runs fine but after driving it a few blocks, the engine just cuts out. They can get it to start again after that, but it will cut out again. They don't know what's wrong with it and have already replaced the MAF sensor and cleaned the throttle body and turbo. What do you guys think might be wrong with it?

Gonna get it for $4k, which seems reasonable as long as I can fix it for under $1K. Am I wrong?

UPDATE!!!!

We bought the car and fixed the problem. It ended up that it was an extremely worn camshaft (the lifters were in good shape though). Runs perfect now.

Hi, Welcome. There are a LOT of possibilities.. Cold out where you are?
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=68872

Yeah, it's cold right now in WV, but they said it started doing this over a month ago when it was warmer. It has 158k miles on it. I was thinking maybe it could be something with the fuel delivery.
The CEL is on and it has codes P0183 twice and P0128.

Still not enough info. Since you can't fix it for them, throw them a real low ball and see if they bite. That is if you really like the car.

as long as the engine is intact

What other info do you need? I'm going to buy it tomorrow and have it towed to my house (~30mi). I really think I can fix it, but I have to figure out what exactly is wrong with it first .

Since i have a 2003 GL TDI already, I decided to go ahead and buy a VAG-COM. I ordered it today.

If there is no check engine light I would suspect a bad in-tank lift pump. They are not that expensive.

JB05 said:

If there is no check engine light I would suspect a bad in-tank lift pump. They are not that expensive.

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CEL is on P0183 and P0128. I see that those are Fuel Temperature Sensor A Open or Short to Plus and Coolant temperature low.

I don't think either of those would cause the stalling, but I will check to make sure it isn't a wiring issue when I get it to my garage.

I did get a chance to listen to the lift pump yesterday. I lifted up the seat and put my ear up to the cover while my brother turned the ignition on and off. I could hear it running. Do you think it could still be the lift pump? How do I test if it is faulty?

The codes from a generic scanner would not give you too much insight. How was the quitting, you said it felt like missing fuel. Did it quit when you tried to push it hard, or on slow down letting off the pedal?
It could be extremely stale fuel in the tank and a clogged filter from algae growth. For that you would have to open the tank and have a look (not hard at all, but messy).

If they cleaned the ASV, they probably didn't clean the whole intake mani (easy but messy) nor the runners in the head (not easy).

I'd like to start with checking the filters and fuel tank. What's the best way to go about doing that?

I haven't had the chance to drive it myself yet. I can give more info after I get it home tomorrow night.

Sometime back I began to experience engine cut out, and only occasionally did it throw a code. When it did, it indicated that it was the camshaft timing sensor.

Got it replaced and no problem since.

Yes, phaser's suggestion is a good one.

Now for the filter and fuel, since apparently the lift pump is working, then, you can disconnect the old filter out put the hose coming to the filter in a jar and by cycling the key get an idea of the volume output of the pump and a sample of fuel. Check the colour of the diesel. Change the fuel filter.

Is it mostly speeds near idle when the engine cuts out? I was having a problem with my 04 BEW Jetta that was due to a bad engine speed sensor. The car would just shut off as if I had turned the key off but would then start right back up.

Definitely look at the cam and crank speed sensors. I think the easiest way to make sure the lift pump is doing it's job is to disconnect the fuel line from the output of the filter and use the lift pump to squirt fuel into a bucket. That way you know for a fact that sufficient fuel is exiting the filter.

The thing is, let's say it's a quick fix to get the car running, that's great, but you still have (probably) a worn camshaft and lifters to replace, egr cooler to deal with, likely a new turbo in the near future. I only say that because I have no faith in the KP39 stock turbo. So consider those things; worst case, I guess, if you do it yourself is about $1K in parts for the timing belt/cam/lifter kit, another $1k for a new VNT17, and maybe you'll get lucky that the egr cooler was actually replaced correctly during the recall and you won't need to find one and the bracket that holds it.

Then the only other ticking time bomb that I can think of is the glowplug situation. I'd want to know right away if the original bosch ceramic 7V are still there, and if so, get 'em out. There are new 7V NGKs that people have just installed without a reflash and it seems they work fine. If the original dealer recall was done, you probably have the 5V steel plugs. I don't know how that will work for you in WV. In TX its fine, and I know they'll never break. Maybe the best of all would be the 5V steels with a tune that increases their pre-glow time.

Ok, I got it home today and started checking things out immediately. When I was backing it off the tow truck bed and pulling it into my garage I noticed that I could floor the gas pedal and it didn't really respond at all. It just kind of idled into the garage.

Once I got it into the garage I popped the hood and peeked under the engine cover to see what I could see. I immediately noticed a connector that wasn't connected to anything. I looked around for where the connector went and found it right away. I recognized it as the fuel temp sensor from my earlier research. I plugged it in and got back in the car and started it up. It was a little hard to start, but it started after about 3 seconds of cranking. I put it in reverse and tried to back out of my garage. Again I could floor the pedal and wouldn't get a response. That changed after about 30 seconds of coaxing it out of the garage. It started to pick up and run pretty good. I drove it around the block about 5 times without stalling. Then I decided to drive it to the gas station to get some diesel (it was on 1/8 of a tank). I put 4 gallons in and got back in the car and drove it back to my house with no stalling or anything. I thought things were good.

Back in my garage I got out my OBD-II code reader to see if I was still getting codes. No codes, so I cleared the CEL. I started it again and drive it around the block one more time and then back into my garage to park it and go into the house.

I called my dad and told him I was going to bring it down to his house (about 3 miles from my house) to show him the car. I get back into the car and start it up (it's still a little bit hard to start), put it in reverse and start to pull out of my garage when it stalls. I started it again, put it in reverse, gave it gas, and it stalled. this happened 3 times. On the fourth try, I decided to make sure it was getting good gas before putting it in gear by revving the engine up a bit. This time it worked and I took off to my dads. It drove fine all the way to his house, even through several stop signs.

I picked my dad up and we drove it around a bit without issue, I then drove it back to his house and shut it off. It was off for about 10 minutes when I started it back up again and tried to back out of his driveway. It stalled again. I was able to get it going the same way I did before and drove it all the way home.

When I got it home, I turned it off and back on a few times to study how it was running. It's a little bit hard to start every time I leave it off for more than 5 seconds, and it idles slightly erratically between 900 and 1000 RPM in park. The CEL never came back on.

There is no evidence that the TB has ever been changed and it has 158K on it, so I am going to schedule that with my mechanic tomorrow. He did my 03 TDI GL for $800 including parts and labor and did a great job.

So, what do you guys think now that you know more about it's behavior?

Check the link in my signature about checking your lift pump. DanG has lots of good ideas.

whitedog said:

Check the link in my signature about checking your lift pump. DanG has lots of good ideas.

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So do these symptoms match the lift pump dying? What about the speed sensors. I would, of course, like to pick the right one to fix it. I don't want to spend $130 on sensors that I don't need just to find out I need the lift pump and vice versa.

You can test the lift pump to eliminate or verify that. It's cheap and easy.

whitedog said:

You can test the lift pump to eliminate or verify that. It's cheap and easy.

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I'm still not too clear on how I test the lift pump. What tube do I disconnect? Do I need to get some extra tubing so I don't get diesel everywhere?

Edit: I found it. Post #7 on DanG144's thread.

jiveabillion said:

My brother and I found an 04 Jetta TDI at a local used car lot. They had it in the back because it has issues. They said that it runs fine but after driving it a few blocks, the engine just cuts out. They can get it to start again after that, but it will cut out again. They don't know what's wrong with it and have already replaced the MAF sensor and cleaned the throttle body and turbo. What do you guys think might be wrong with it?

Gonna get it for $4k, which seems reasonable as long as I can fix it for under $1K. Am I wrong?

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Obviously they have no clue as to what is wrong (not saying I do), which gives you an edge. Offer them $3,000, stating since you feel there could be something seriously you do not want to take more of a risk. Cite known issues of ruining the camshaft and lifters (which happens alot on the BEW if the wrong oil is used). Buy the car and take it home. Most likely the lift pump in the fuel tank has failed. If not, the fuel filter could be plugged. The original lift pumps on the BEW engine (that the '04 TDI has) failed like crazy at anything over 80,000 miles. It's a $220 part that can be installed in under an hour for a newbie.

Also, be prepared to have to install a new camshaft and a set of lifters. Some special tools are needed. All the parts and tools run a hair under $1000, perhaps a litle over when you throw in the timing belt kit.

If you are lucky, the previous owner(s) used the correct oil, but don't count on it. Even the VW dealers use the wrong oil in these cars. It needs to be a VW 505.01 specification, and a 5W-40 weight. The correct oil can not be found at any of the local auto parts stores, Walmart, Jiffy Lube, and the like (although some people think using Shell Rotela Synthetic or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 weight oil is o.k. and it may be. If you wish to use those after doing some research, you may be able to get those locally). Believe it or not, I buy my oil at the VW dealer. Motul with the correct spec for about $7-$8 a liter.

Here is a description:

http://ltbautosports.com/mooemspoi.html



--Nate

I called my VW shop this morning and got bad news. His mechanic quit and he doesn't do repairs any more. So, I lost my TB guy.

However, this news wasn't so bad after I called the dealership where the previous owner used to take the car and discovered that the TB was changed 37k miles ago along with the rollers and water pump etc.

Now I've just got to figure out funky stalling issue and I'm gold.

Maybe the CTS was disconnected on purpose. If it is reporting a false higher temperature, then for sure the car will have problems starting.

Get someone (there are lists here) with VCDS to do an scan of your car. Check for temperatures (air, oil, coolant) on a cold car and they all should be really close to each other.

You're still going to need a mechanic at some point, believe me. Not trying to be negative, but these cars need maintenance by an expert. You should absolutely check into the glow plug situation and the egr cooler situation with the same dealer that told you the TB was changed. Chances are good that you have the latest glowplugs, or at least the 5V steels, because those were done on a recall and if the dealer changed the TB, they probably did the recall too. But check it out.

I have a VAG-COM arriving in the mail today. I'll see if my brother can bring the car back to my house tonight so I can hook it up and check it out.

Last night I changed the fuel filter. It didn't seem to change the performance at all, but the old one was quite dirty and the only record I have of it being changed before was almost 100k miles ago.

We drove it quite a bit last night. It still starts kind of hard and will often stall after putting it in gear and hitting the throttle. After we get it moving, it doesn't stall any more even when stopping at stop signs from slow to 80mph speeds.

That was until my brother was driving it home. At about 20 miles from my house on the highway, he calls me and tells me that the car stopped responding to the throttle and then stalled when he pulled off the road. It still didn't turn on the CEL. He was able to get it restarted after a few tries and drive it the rest of the 10 miles to his girlfriends house and then the 25 miles back to his house.

On a side note, this car doesn't really look like it has been neglected. The engine and components are very clean and all of the wires from the harness look new. The interior is in pretty good shape too.

I'm pretty convinced that it is the lift pump by now. I ordered one today and we'll see if that fixes it when it comes in

jiveabillion said:

I have a VAG-COM arriving in the mail today.

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That is very good!

jiveabillion said:

...he calls me and tells me that the car stopped responding to the throttle ...

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That is called limp mode, read about it. There must be a code stored for the limp. Codes doesn't necessarily trigger CELs.

I hooked up my VAG-COM and I don't really know what I'm looking for. One thing that stands out that I've seen talked about in the forums is the Injection Quantity. Mine is hovering at about 12 mg/str at idle, which is high according to what I've read. I also read that a high number means less fuel. Is this indicative of the fuel pump failing?

That's for VE engines, has nothing to due with PDs.

Start by scanning for fault codes in the ECU.Copy them and past them here.

No fault codes