If there is a Buyback..What would it take for you get out of your TDI?

Stop. I read UWV's report. It's the DPF regen that causes high NOx

First.. it would take the full purchase price plus extra to cover taxes on my new purchase because I won't have a trade to take the advantage of the sales tax benefit. I would miss my 56mpg cruising at 80mph in 6th gear.

Ok here's the full report. The issue is with DPF regen. NOx is violated during regen.

http://www.nfnnet.org/WVU_LDDV_in-use_ICCT_Report_Final_may2014.pdf

I think VW should have said the emissions cheat was to disable DPF regen... they messed up there because I don't think the public would have been as hard on them if they said it.

Regardless of the KBB, I would need what I still owe on it plus at least 5 grand to put down on it's replacement plus sales tax and registration cost. IF, I said if, the EPA clears the 16's through on road testing, I might accept it as credit on a new one. After all it would no longer be the first year on a new engine, treatment, body style combo. If they don't like that I know some very good lawyers.

jerryn63 said:

First.. it would take the full purchase price plus extra to cover taxes on my new purchase because I won't have a trade to take the advantage of the sales tax benefit. I would miss my 56mpg cruising at 80mph in 6th gear.

Ok here's the full report. The issue is with DPF regen. NOx is violated during regen.

http://www.nfnnet.org/WVU_LDDV_in-use_ICCT_Report_Final_may2014.pdf

I think VW should have said the emissions cheat was to disable DPF regen... they messed up there because I don't think the public would have been as hard on them if they said it.

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I had a suspicion the regen had something to do with it. And if it's ONLY during Regens that the emissions go through the roof this might be something that can be fixed a bit easier then it's been made out to be so far.

To get me out of mine, and to keep me as happy as I was with V.W., it would take a heavily discounted new Golf GTD.

I have no desire for a full buyback. I like the car, haven't had one in recent memory that I like as much.

I want to wait to see what the fix will be for the problems and the fuel economy/performance results of that fix. If the car turns into a dog with poor fuel economy afterward then they should give fair market value: ie what the car was worth two weeks before the news of the emissions scandal hit.

ATR said:

I had a suspicion the regen had something to do with it. And if it's ONLY during Regens that the emissions go through the roof this might be something that can be fixed a bit easier then it's been made out to be so far.

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I don't think that's what the report says.

These guys put over a thousand miles on each of these test vehicles. There would have been several regens during their testing. It's not like there was a snapshot test that happened to coincide with a regen, showing high numbers. Also, the BMW would have been going through regens, too.

The portion I read seems to indicate that the engine experiences a lean condition during regen and subsequent higher NOx output.

viking427 said:

VW has known about the WVU study and EPA's awareness of the issue since May of last year. Its only news for us since the EPA's Sept. 18th public filing. I have to believe VW's already (quietly) done their internal risk assessments, cost analysis and legal reviews in anticipation of the eventual fallout when the filing was submitted and it went public. Yes they provided weak explanations to EPA during this time to buy time, but they had to know this was eventually coming as early as last summer. My guess is, they already know how they're going to handle this and they're playing out their hand in regards to timing, political moves (Winterkorn exodus) and public responses. The #1 automotive company in the world doesn't get to the top being strictly reactionary.

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Excellent post. They absolutely did not get caught with their pants down when the EPA made the announcement last Friday. Internally VW had to know the game was up @ May 2014. They have essentially stalled, stalled, stalled for 15 months to give themselves time to formulate a way out of this mess.

Hopefully this plan will soon be made available to the public.

jerryn63 said:

First.. it would take the full purchase price plus extra to cover taxes on my new purchase because I won't have a trade to take the advantage of the sales tax benefit. I would miss my 56mpg cruising at 80mph in 6th gear.

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56 mpg at 80 mph? Is that downhill? I guess vw isn't the only one fudging the numbers! I agree with the part about wanting to keep your car though.

A fully loaded 2016 Touareg TDI (with CarPlay) and AWD, not sure they don't all come with AWD? $9,000 to pay off the rest of my loan on my 2011 Golf TDI, and I'll be a happy camper and contiune to praise the VW brand. Full maintenance for 6 years and/or 100,000 miles wouldn't hurt either. I can dream, don't be bursting my bubble please.

I'm sure we would all take that deal Solo!! ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can't (well I really can) to see what they offer owners. I would like to see 100k full bumper to bumper maintenance and warrantee.

I bought my tdi wagon literally 2 days before the scandal. FML

What about those of us past 100K? I think one of the issue VW will have is if you refit the emission system , by law you get 8 years I think 150k and does VW want to deal with those headaches with systems that were not designed for the Fix, that is one reason why I say a enhanced trade in may be on the table.

kevin_in_idaho said:

I can't (well I really can) to see what they offer owners. I would like to see 100k full bumper to bumper maintenance and warrantee.

Click to expand...

This would be about the best most people could expect unless they went the enhance trade in route, the other factor is how many people would turn them down and keep the car.

Wklink said:

I have no desire for a full buyback. I like the car, haven't had one in recent memory that I like as much.

I want to wait to see what the fix will be for the problems and the fuel economy/performance results of that fix. If the car turns into a dog with poor fuel economy afterward then they should give fair market value: ie what the car was worth two weeks before the news of the emissions scandal hit.

Click to expand...

was about to sell/trade

2010 with 145k
I was just starting the process to trade mine in to pick up a new car. Was looking at the GTI. We no longer use the JSW as the family car and I don't need the extra space. Did a test drive late last month and told sales person would be back on the 25th.Then this news hit. Looks like I am keeping my car a bit longer. Now I know why no call back from the sales person. Very frustrating.

Two big reasons why Volkswagen got busted:

1. They produced the world's most fuel efficient cars, and when the XL1 hit production, represented a huge threat to the climate change scam. Think about it - if all of a sudden fuel economy increased even 5x, (rather than the 10X the XL1 did) it would destroy the entire notion of us destroying the planet by driving.
Consider this: The biggest threat the climate hoaxers claim is CO2. Volkswagen cut that in half with the TDI, in part by breaking the emission system rules that would make it impossible to do if followed. Volkswagen proved the emission standards and systems are a scam that is feeding the climate change hoax. How would a powerful elite climate hoaxer respond to being exposed?

2. They were about to release an electric car, at full production levels, that would destroy the Tesla with a cheaper price, better range, and lower operating cost. Additionally, they evidently had a way to do a 15 minute full charge and an infrastructure plan to deliver it. That would cost what? $15 - 20 billion to do, approximately the amount of that fine? BINGO: Volkswagen was about to invest $22 billion Euros into electric car manufacturing in China! That's way too close to the amount of that fine! DING DING DING!

Now all the news reports are saying how much the scandal benefited the electric car future, but if Volkswagen gets bashed into oblivion the moment they were about to bring it forward, what does that really say? MORE CO2 FOR EVERYONE, CARBON TAX PLEASE!

ualfltdispatch said:

Two big reasons why Volkswagen got busted:

1. They produced the world's most fuel efficient cars, and when the XL1 hit production, represented a huge threat to the climate change scam. Think about it - if all of a sudden fuel economy increased even 5x, (rather than the 10X the XL1 did) it would destroy the entire notion of us destroying the planet by driving.
Consider this: The biggest threat the climate hoaxers claim is CO2. Volkswagen cut that in half with the TDI, in part by breaking the emission system rules that would make it impossible to do if followed. Volkswagen proved the emission standards and systems are a scam that is feeding the climate change hoax. How would a powerful elite climate hoaxer respond to being exposed?

2. They were about to release an electric car, at full production levels, that would destroy the Tesla with a cheaper price, better range, and lower operating cost. Additionally, they evidently had a way to do a 15 minute full charge and an infrastructure plan to deliver it. That would cost what? $15 - 20 billion to do, approximately the amount of that fine? BINGO: Volkswagen was about to invest $22 billion Euros into electric car manufacturing in China! That's way too close to the amount of that fine! DING DING DING!

Now all the news reports are saying how much the scandal benefited the electric car future, but if Volkswagen gets bashed into oblivion the moment they were about to bring it forward, what does that really say? MORE CO2 FOR EVERYONE, CARBON TAX PLEASE!

Click to expand...

Wow! just, wow! The only thing is, I can't figure out from this post what it would take to get you out of your car in a buyback. Maybe this goes in the
TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) > Hats > Tinfoil > General section of the forum

I have a 2014 JSW at 22,000 miles that I bought just over a year ago. A few friends who know what I drive have asked me what I think about all of this, and my take right now is that it's an issue between Volkswagen and regulators that doesn't have much to do with me or my car. As far as I'm concerned, they did "get away with it" because they managed to get one of the vehicles into my hands before the scandal broke. The only thing I will be watching for is the details of the "repair" they are forced to offer, so that I don't get it applied to my car if it sacrifices performance for the sake of emissions (which sounds likely). By all accounts, that could be a year out, though, and such things can be declined.

I have noticed several commenters in this thread talking about using a buyback program to get a GTI. That's an interesting thought process for me because when I needed a car last year, I looked at the GTI first, which had just begun appearing in dealerships. I ended up going with the JSW largely because the 2-door GTI wasn't due for several more months, and I personally don't like the way the Golf/GTI looks in a 4-door configuration. Now that the 2-door is available (although I see almost none on the road), would I take advantage of this situation to get one? Right now I think not. Deciding on the car last year involved several weeks of weighing options and ultimately putting together some final details (accessory wheels, Japanese RCD-510) that were very much a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Even a year from now, I think it will be too soon to move onto something else, scandal or no scandal. It's easy to be swept away by the media flood, but I don't see any reason to change my plans based on it, except maybe to get a Malone tune sooner than I originally planned if it sounds like convincing the dealer not to apply an unwanted "repair" will be difficult or cause warranty complications. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I'm keeping the car.

tjsadler said:

Wow! just, wow! The only thing is, I can't figure out from this post what it would take to get you out of your car in a buyback. Maybe this goes in the
TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) > Hats > Tinfoil > General section of the forum

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Absolutely. Moderators please create the previously suggested "Tinfoil Hat" section for this forum. That's where all of this conspiracy theory nonsense belongs.

For folks that have just "chipped" their cars but have not done any other mods (i.e. not me), I don't understand why they couldn't just get their ECU reloaded with the latest factory image.

Wouldn't the manufacturer (VW) have to prove that it was reprogrammed and that it was the reprogramming (and not their own lying) that caused issues?

I didn't buy my 2012 Golf (aka Polo) for resale value. I bought it:
-mileage
-torque
-iphone support (Techpackage)
-BiXenon directional lights (TechPackage)
-I fit rather than the Asian offerings (no head room/legroom for Anglo-EU-American)
-handling (not like my GTi but better than Accord)

That said, I would only allow selling back if they:
-gave me full retail ($27K)...doubtful or best resale ($15K) for my year/mileage
-Tesla releases the $30K car and I can trade for that!

Otherwise, you can breath my exhaust...

PS (msg me for reliable resources of used 2012 TDI parts... I need ECU/ECM, 510 headunit, Polo rear cam kit, FSB set...)

TDiZombie said:

I didn't buy my 2012 Golf (aka Polo) for resale value.

Click to expand...

The golf is not the same model as the polo. The polo is much smaller.

TDiZombie said:

I didn't buy my 2012 Golf (aka Polo) for resale value. I bought it:
-mileage
-torque
-iphone support (Techpackage)
-BiXenon directional lights (TechPackage)
-I fit rather than the Asian offerings (no head room/legroom for Anglo-EU-American)
-handling (not like my GTi but better than Accord)

That said, I would only allow selling back if they:
-gave me full retail ($27K)...doubtful or best resale ($15K) for my year/mileage
-Tesla releases the $30K car and I can trade for that!

Otherwise, you can breath my exhaust...

PS (msg me for reliable resources of used 2012 TDI parts... I need ECU/ECM, 510 headunit, Polo rear cam kit, FSB set...)

Click to expand...

You list some of the very same reasons that I too bought my car for. Namely the great leg and head room that is severely lacking in most other makes and models. The only other make I can fit in is BMW. I was seriously considering a e60 528i or e90 335d before I settled on my 2011 Golf TDI.

In a "what if a buy back happens" search I started looking for a replacement. Nothing else out there fits me better then the car I already have. Great MPG, decent power and excellent leg and head room. It helps that I also just paid it off a few months ago. They would have to cut a big check to get me out of this car.

OH MY GOSH... The mental gymnastics and wishful thinking is hilarious
hyperbole and a waste of time, right up there with "if I won the lottery
blah blah". Fun to DREAM, I do it, but it is not going to happen. Just enjoy
your car and live life. Wait for this to sort out, which may be a year or more.
Also all those class action law suits which are ambulance chasing legal
crooks will delay things more. Remember the law firm gets millions and you
will get a check for $300.

First there is nothing even close to indicating there will be a buy back or do
they need to or will be compelled to. Your car will perform, get good mileage,
be safe after modification, what ever that might be. That is a BIG FACTOR,
this is NOT a SAFETY thing but a regulatory violation.

Further it is unlikely if you live in a place or register your car in a place where
there are no emission tests, you will need to do anything to your car, status quo,
good to go. The Fed government has indicated they are NOT going after owners
and licking their chops at getting a big fine, also taking peoples mind off them
dumping hazardous waste in a river. As far as diminished value? We might
get some payout, but to get that payout you need to do the recall. I'll pass.

EPA thing, the federal treasury will get money, NOT you and I. Sorry.

Last I love this car and don't want to sell it back. Buy backs typically, if I
let myself go into wild guessing land, would be based on age, mileage and
condition, meaning what you would get for a trade-in. They will not pay
you 100% of what you paid... Sorry

I would let them buy it back/ trade it in at blue book at this point. I don't see how these cars will ever not drop in value or performance.

The more people speculate and spread this on the internet, the worse it will be. Just stop worrying about it and drive. I bet the emissions is not as bad as you think. This has been an issue since 2012 when the findings were reported. It wasn't until the media and internet buzz picked up, that it became big.

Donald

gmcjetpilot said:

OH MY GOSH... The mental gymnastics and wishful thinking is hilarious
hyperbole and a waste of time, right up there with "if I won the lottery
blah blah". Fun to DREAM, I do it, but it is not going to happen. Just enjoy
your car and live life. Wait for this to sort out, which may be a year or more.
Also all those class action law suits which are ambulance chasing legal
crooks will delay things more. Remember the law firm gets millions and you
will get a check for $300.

Click to expand...

If VW takes a year to fix the issue then many folks will completely abandon them... They've known about it for a year now and I guarantee that VW has been formulating plans as to what happens if stuff hit the fan. I'm sure they have a few plans at the ready and they are currently discussing what they will do. Right now it's very foggy and we need to wait to see what happens when the dust settles. Again I don't think a year wait will happen unless it's something like "Recall needed to add urea injection to exhaust". I suspect something in the next month or two.

First there is nothing even close to indicating there will be a buy back or do
they need to or will be compelled to. Your car will perform, get good mileage,
be safe after modification, what ever that might be. That is a BIG FACTOR,
this is NOT a SAFETY thing but a regulatory violation.

Click to expand...

A buyback might happen in California as this kinda thing is a very big deal there and if a software update doesn't fix the car's emissions, guess what buy back may indeed happen there.

Further it is unlikely if you live in a place or register your car in a place where
there are no emission tests, you will need to do anything to your car, status quo,
good to go. The Fed government has indicated they are NOT going after owners
and licking their chops at getting a big fine, also taking peoples mind off them
dumping hazardous waste in a river. As far as diminished value? We might
get some payout, but to get that payout you need to do the recall. I'll pass.

EPA thing, the federal treasury will get money, NOT you and I. Sorry.

Click to expand...

I happen to live in a area that is exempt for emissions testing for diesel cars and pickup trucks. I'm still going to hold out to see what exactly they come up with.

Last I love this car and don't want to sell it back. Buy backs typically, if I
let myself go into wild guessing land, would be based on age, mileage and
condition, meaning what you would get for a trade-in. They will not pay
you 100% of what you paid... Sorry

Click to expand...

Yep, LOVE my car as well. I just did my research for another car and nothing, NOTHING comes close to what this car offers as a whole. No other car has the MPG, driving fun, hatchback that's fun to drive and has enough leg & headroom that this car has. Yes the GTI has more GO power but I'd sacrifice ~10MPG by going that route.

I personally would like to keep my car unless there's a forced buy back, which I honestly doubt will actually happen. But if it does I'd like to see at least 125% of current retail market value.

I would rather they fix it and the drama ends

I really don't want to participate in a buyback. Going 80mph in 6th gear while getting 56mpg is pretty cool. I read the WVU doc. The exhaust temp is monitored and you can clearly see when DPF regen was running. I think the DPF/CAT2 is running too hot during regen to catalyze NOx efficiently. I think the older TDIs will need a NOx CAT. And my 2014 will either need a larger DPF/CAT2 to or add an additional NOx cat. I think the aluminum oxide elements are getting too hot. It's made of platinum (reactive to really high temps) aluminum oxide (at 800F it's not as efficient.. I am going to look for my old chemistry book to verify) and silicon carbide (can stand tremendous heat but it doesn't dissipate it). I think they should of just disabled DPF regen during testing. Limiting fuel flow, disabling DPF, and adjusting fuel injection time was overkill. They could of explained a DPF regen disable. Anyway, I don't think the fix will be hobbling our cars with restricted fuel flow and earlier fuel injection times. I think it's going to be adding an additional NOx cat with a slightly different chemistry that will deal with the 1000F - 1200F at DPF regen.
It must take a while for the DPF to cool down too. CAT2 will have to cool down quite a bit before it starts to break down NOX to NO2 CO2 again.

I think it would be cool if the NOx is reduced so much that they can tune injection to happen a little later in the powerstroke to add more HP, Torque, and MPG while remaining in compliance. That would be cool.

All we can do is just ignore the hype. I think a some of the twitter action is from lawyers trying to get people pumped for Class Action. We are all pretty bright over here. We know the only ones that earn money from a Class Action are lawyers and the firms they represent. They are actually acting like ambulance chasers right now.

I think VW will get the chemistry right. I don't think a SCR will fit in my 2014 Beetle.. but maybe another NOx CAT, maybe replace the muffler with it ? 3 CATS inline will probably be an adequate muffler anyway. They could probably design it to act as a muffler and NOx CAT.


My 3D printer is going to be delivered tomorrow.. Now I'll have something to take my mind off of this. Sure I wasn't happy when I read the posting on the net and twitter. But after reading the actual report I really think it's all caused by regen overheating the DPF/NOx CAT. Not a deal breaker. I think they will fix it in a way that will make customers satisfied.

I've been thinking about this since a buy back of some sort is almost certain.

150% FMV towards new VW would do it for me. I'd just hop into a gasser Golf and put this behind me with the HPFP- DPF- EGR... all the stuff that ruined a truly excellent car