Is this a valid test of HP and torque while the 'cheat device' is engaged?

Found [link removed] that seems a bit too... I don't know... amateurish? Is this a valid test?

It's interesting..... But even so...when they reflash it could be different. I would like to see a dyno before and after the 2306 update to see what they did there. The real test will be after the coming reflash that will hopefully make them emissions compliant. I am anxious to see how it affects both the LNT and SCR vehicles.

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I am just not convinced that they actually ever were in test mode. The lights on the dashboard seem to indicate that traction control was on and in a prior segment (scroll backward in the video) one of the mechanics claims that they always turn of traction control for the test and that that triggers the cheat code. I think the latter part isn't right, which was another reason why I thought this video was a bit off.

They also use a mustang dyno, which are known to read lower compared to other dynos. So thats something else to consider.

Not a valid test.

the "cheater mode" is NOT in effect at WOT.

The problem is that we do not really know how the "cheat mode" is controlled. Is it just about 2 vs. 4 wheels spinning? Does steering angle matter? Does traction control matter? How is throttle activity involved? How about the transmission's gearing? We have no idea how the Bosch engineers who wrote the software did it. Therefore, we have no idea whether or not this is a valid test or not. It does indicate something, but we have no idea what that is. Was it "cheat mode"? Again, we have no idea. Your guess is as good as mine (and just as worthless).

Have Fun!

Don

Just like I commented on that video, they needed to properly disable the traction control first. And do several runs of 4w and 2w mode. It isn't a valid test.

-J

Maybe, maybe not. There are a few things they need to hash out to confirm the results.

KERMA said:

Not a valid test.

the "cheater mode" is NOT in effect at WOT.

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Kerma,

Can you see this in the computer software? Are the "cheat" maps complete, IE could the car run on them full time? Or do they stop at some not-full-throttle point?

-J

there's more than just throttle position. although that has some bearing.

There's things like longitudinal acceleration sensors (airbag crash sensors fill this role), not revving faster than 300 rpm/sec, and several more conditions like coolant temperature when the engine is started (the epa emissions test cycle includes a warmup) and run time since engine start. There's a fairly complex set of single value switches and bitmasks to establish a "test in progress" to remain in this "test mode".

It looks to me as if regen is not allowed so I doubt you could run like this full time even if you were so inclined. (FWIW there is also a "max allowed soot loading" requirement to start the test)

I hadn't considered that WOT would preclude "cheat mode." That's an excellent observation. Additionally, I felt the loss in torque could be because they had to "ease into it" as they tried to get past the faults that were caused by the rear wheels being stopped. Sure, they could eventually get past it, achieving nearly the same horsepower (heat soak?). But the highest torque is usually found at lower rpms, right where the testers were unable to get the car to behave. Once past about 3000 rpm, the hp/torque curves were very similar.

So, no, not a valid test.

No regen allowed in "dyno mode"?

"Fixing the fix" just got a WHOLE lot more complicated.

There are lateral and longitudinal acceleration sensors in the ABS module, and they need to be recalibrated should their basic settings be lost or you replace the ABS module. I'm sure it also takes into account the G85 steering angle sensor as well. It being in the exact same position for an extended period of time is something that almost never happens in real world driving, as constant small corrections for road imperfections and curves are a given.

It would also be interesting to know if any of the WVU testing included a DPF regen and if during a regen cycle the NOx emissions skyrocket.

I didn't even think about the ECU disabling a regen cycle while the car is thought to be on a dyno test... Interesting note, Charlie.

Stealth TDI said:

I hadn't considered that WOT would preclude "cheat mode." That's an excellent observation. Additionally, I felt the loss in torque could be because they had to "ease into it" as they tried to get past the faults that were caused by the rear wheels being stopped. Sure, they could eventually get past it, achieving nearly the same horsepower (heat soak?). But the highest torque is usually found at lower rpms, right where the testers were unable to get the car to behave. Once past about 3000 rpm, the hp/torque curves were very similar.

So, no, not a valid test.

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Definitely not a valid test. It could also be marked up to a difference in how the dyno calculates torque when in AWD mode vs. FWD mode...

Matt-98AHU said:

It would also be interesting to know if any of the WVU testing included a DPF regen and if during a regen cycle the NOx emissions skyrocket.
I didn't even think about the ECU disabling a regen cycle while the car is thought to be on a dyno test... Interesting note, Charlie.

Click to expand...

Given that WVU drove much of the way up the West Coast, I'm sure their on-road route would have included a few DPF regens ... and it should have included many LNT regens.

Regenerating the LNT requires the engine to run a smidge rich momentarily. That's a recipe for loading the DPF with soot and it's asking for a little fart of hydrocarbons or CO out the tailpipe. Regenerating the DPF requires the engine to run lean with high EGT which is asking for loading up the LNT with NOx, some of which might escape out the tailpipe. LNT regens are supposed to happen much more frequently than DPF regens.

Matt-98AHU said:

It would also be interesting to know if any of the WVU testing included a DPF regen and if during a regen cycle the NOx emissions skyrocket.
I didn't even think about the ECU disabling a regen cycle while the car is thought to be on a dyno test... Interesting note, Charlie.

Click to expand...

They mention experiencing several regens in their study. NOx increased during the events, as expected.

GoFaster said:

Given that WVU drove much of the way up the West Coast, I'm sure their on-road route would have included a few DPF regens ... and it should have included many LNT regens.
Regenerating the LNT requires the engine to run a smidge rich momentarily. That's a recipe for loading the DPF with soot and it's asking for a little fart of hydrocarbons or CO out the tailpipe. Regenerating the DPF requires the engine to run lean with high EGT which is asking for loading up the LNT with NOx, some of which might escape out the tailpipe. LNT regens are supposed to happen much more frequently than DPF regens.

Click to expand...

The LNT is basically useless for capturing NOx during DPF regen due to heat plus there is a lot of engine out NOx since high pressure EGR cannot be open during regen. Not sure about low pressure EGR. I never worked on an engine that had it. DPF outlet temps are pretty high so I imagine it is closed too.

This is a big SCR advantage. It can still reduce NOx during DPF regen. Tailpipe NOx will still be pretty high because no EGR but it can make a pretty big dent in the DPF regen NOx. Since it lacks a rich mode like an LNT, regens are less frequent too which means it can make a little more NOx in normal mode and still meet EPA requirements. Other than doser problems SCR is a far superior solution to LNT. The only reason LNT exists is that manufacturers did not want to have cars that need to have both diesel and urea added.

Any more discussion about the test video is unnecessary and only makes people go look at it, which is what they want and makes those frauds money.

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Thank you.