Need convincing as to why I should do buyback

as of now...2010 TDI JSW DSG........124,000mi power moon 17" alloys

We bought the car Nov. 2012 w/ 60,000 mi total cost with interest $26,500
still owe about $2300-$2500..Buyback would be something $14,750, then minus the remaining note i walk away with $12,000

My wife and I bought the car with the purpose of keeeping the car and hoping to get 220 plus miles on it. we wanted to have a car without payments after the five year loan. I love the car and can't really find one that I like to replace in our price range ,BUT.....It's always been a little tempermental and I'm getting worried that one of these days something big might go, especially after reading some of the horror stories on this forum. Another thing is the MPG....Right now with 17" nokian WRG 3 and driving about 63mph highway I'm lucky to get 36MPG. I don't know how people are getting mid to upper 40's

So at this point my plan is to

a. hope for a fix, collect 5 grand buy the wife '08 outback and keep the jetta with extra warranty with will hopefully cover HPFP and DPF

b. drive until the deadline and do buyback(most likely)

c. our keep it, get nothing back and hope it last as long as people claim it will without any major repair costs.

Now the problem and thing I'm struggling with is:

If I do buyback now I payoff note I walk away with about $12,000, but that's essentially a down payment and 5 more years of car payments. What is the benefit for me in this scenario? The way I see, it is I've paid close to 12,000 plus maintenance and repairs of at least $5,000. Seems like a break even scenario, plus the fact that a comparable replacement will need financing. Add to the fact of all the problems with turning these things back and VW making like payments to outstanding bank loans.

If I wait a year I collect $14,000 or make a out a little better, but also take on the risk of something big happening and possibly being in the hole. and also end up being in payments for 5 years.

Right now the thing that keeps pulling at me is that we cannot afford to have fix a new HPFP, DPF, or grenade DFW.....and as much as enjoy the car, part of me wants to cut bait and run.

Luxury problems, I know but still..we aren't kings either......

My 2009 JSW will go over 200,000 miles next month.

I am waiting for the fix, and plan to drive past the post-fix warranty.

the most cost effective path is, in my experience, most likely to keep the car you have, as long as you take care of it.

Every time you buy a car, there are fees, and commissions to pay for, the fewer times you do this over the course of your life, the better off you end up.

Of course, if you are in a position where you have to take the car to a dealer for service and repair, the cost/benefit skews a bit.


For every scary story you read here, there are 20 to 50 happy, boring, no drama, driving along stories not posted.

branforddiesel said:

as of now...2010 TDI JSW DSG........124,000mi power moon 17" alloys

We bought the car Nov. 2012 w/ 60,000 mi total cost with interest $26,500
still owe about $2300-$2500..Buyback would be something $14,750, then minus the remaining note i walk away with $12,000


My wife and I bought the car with the purpose of keeeping the car and hoping to get 220 plus miles on it. we wanted to have a car without payments after the five year loan. I love the car and can't really find one that I like to replace in our price range ,

BUT.....It's always been a little tempermental and I'm getting worried that one of these days something big might go, especially after reading some of the horror stories on this forum.

Another thing is the MPG....Right now with 17" nokian WRG 3 and driving about 63mph highway I'm lucky to get 36MPG. I don't know how people are getting mid to upper 40's


So at this point my plan is to

a. hope for a fix, collect 5 grand buy the wife '08 outback and keep the jetta with extra warranty with will hopefully cover HPFP and DPF

b. drive until the deadline and do buyback(most likely)

c. our keep it, get nothing back and hope it last as long as people claim it will without any major repair costs.

Now the problem and thing I'm struggling with is:

If I do buyback now I payoff note I walk away with about $12,000, but that's essentially a down payment and 5 more years of car payments. What is the benefit for me in this scenario?

The way I see, it is I've paid close to 12,000 plus maintenance and repairs of at least $5,000. Seems like a break even scenario, plus the fact that a comparable replacement will need financing. Add to the fact of all the problems with turning these things back and VW making like payments to outstanding bank loans.


If I wait a year I collect $14,000 or make a out a little better, but also take on the risk of something big happening and possibly being in the hole. and also end up being in payments for 5 years.


Right now the thing that keeps pulling at me is that we cannot afford to have fix a new HPFP, DPF, or grenade DFW.....and as much as enjoy the car, part of me wants to cut bait and run.


Luxury problems, I know but still..we aren't kings either......

Click to expand...

Read your post twice.

between a rock and a cruncher

If it was me, RUN ~ RUN ~ RUN

You might consider turning that $12k into a later model used car with good reliability ratings, such as your basic used Camry or whatnot. If you like VW, the gasser engine is improving, and you can get a used golf or Jetta with a warranty.

Without dieselgate, your car would be worth way less than $14750. Probably $8K trade in.

Keeping it is foolish. Selling it to buy a 2017 is also foolish. Car payments / debt = bad.

Dieselgate is such a gift to help people get out of debt. Don't squander the opportunity.

branforddiesel said:

<snip>
Right now the thing that keeps pulling at me is that we cannot afford to have fix a new HPFP, DPF, or grenade DFW.....and as much as enjoy the car, part of me wants to cut bait and run.
<snip>

Click to expand...

Sounds like your case is complicated.....but only in the motives. As someone has pointed out, the buyback (which we are doing, BTW) is more than one could ever hope to realize from a trade-in or outright sale.
A big factor is that it can still be driven until Dec. 2018, and the mileage penalty for doing so is extremely reasonable— only a fraction of what any other car one might buy would cost per mile to operate.
You are right on the big timing belt maintenance, but you don't say if this has already been done. If not, doing the buyback ASAP is going to save probably $1500.
And let's not forget that the car -any car- is a lot more than just the turbo, HPFP, DPF, and (on our Passat) the SCR system that might fail. At 124K, you're looking at all sorts of things piling up: shocks, exhaust, tie rods, alternator, brakes that are all wear items that will fail sooner or later (I've already alluded to the TB).
From my perspective, we'll be selling a car back to VW for $27,036 (projected amount) that we paid $29,198 for new in July of '13. The car should have about 80K on it by the time we turn it in. There's no way we can turn that down.

My advice is to rule out option C, and focus on A and B.

A is attractive if they offer an outstanding warranty like they are on 2015 TDIs.

B is attractive if you want to maximize your depreciation-free driving and collect a big check at the end of 2018.

Which scenario works best for you long-term, none of us know.

You also have another possibility. Watch the used TDI market during 2017 and 2018 and see how Sportwagen values are doing. If they are in high demand, it may be possible to fix it, sell it privately, and realize a tidy profit. Sportwagen TDI values will probably depend on what the fix is and how many get fixed vs crushed.

Rico567 said:

Sounds like your case is complicated.....but only in the motives. As someone has pointed out, the buyback (which we are doing, BTW) is more than one could ever hope to realize from a trade-in or outright sale.
A big factor is that it can still be driven until Dec. 2018, and the mileage penalty for doing so is extremely reasonable— only a fraction of what any other car one might buy would cost per mile to operate.
You are right on the big timing belt maintenance, but you don't say if this has already been done. If not, doing the buyback ASAP is going to save probably $1500.
And let's not forget that the car -any car- is a lot more than just the turbo, HPFP, DPF, and (on our Passat) the SCR system that might fail. At 124K, you're looking at all sorts of things piling up: shocks, exhaust, tie rods, alternator, brakes that are all wear items that will fail sooner or later (I've already alluded to the TB).
From my perspective, we'll be selling a car back to VW for $27,036 (projected amount) that we paid $29,198 for new in July of '13. The car should have about 80K on it by the time we turn it in. There's no way we can turn that down.

Click to expand...

I forget to mention. Had timing belt done at 100,000. Had rear brakes done in December. EGR valve in December and Nokians don't even have 5,000 miles. So I've got some new money in it, which is why I want to wait until deadline for buyback. Like I stated before I feel like I'm driving on a cash bomb waiting to go off any day, but I also want to get some mileage out of what I just put into it

U are in same boat as I: 2010 sedan, manual, lovely 17" Goals, 111k highway miles. Car has been utterly reliable....only problem apart from an O2 sensor were the manifold flappers which were replaced under warranty at 74.6k miles. Well, that and the radio that crapped out 2 years ago and is still hors de combat.

I submitted my paperwork as 'will fix' and will remain that way until the details of the Gen1 fix are available. If reasonable, I will keep the arrangement as is and use the $5k to replace shocks with some nice adjustable Konis, install GLI springs, freshen up the suspension as a whole, replace the rear sway bar with something more substantial, do the timing belt, fix the radio and I'll still have enough for a couple of nice dinners with the missus. Or a Malone tune.


I should add that with 9k miles to go until the end of the 120k mile DPF/HPFP warranty, I'm not worried....still have about 10 months before I lose that air cover...

branforddiesel said:

as of now...2010 TDI JSW DSG........124,000mi power moon 17" alloys
We bought the car Nov. 2012 w/ 60,000 mi total cost with interest $26,500
still owe about $2300-$2500..Buyback would be something $14,750, then minus the remaining note i walk away with $12,000
My wife and I bought the car with the purpose of keeeping the car and hoping to get 220 plus miles on it. we wanted to have a car without payments after the five year loan. I love the car and can't really find one that I like to replace in our price range ,BUT.....It's always been a little tempermental and I'm getting worried that one of these days something big might go, especially after reading some of the horror stories on this forum. Another thing is the MPG....Right now with 17" nokian WRG 3 and driving about 63mph highway I'm lucky to get 36MPG. I don't know how people are getting mid to upper 40's
So at this point my plan is to
a. hope for a fix, collect 5 grand buy the wife '08 outback and keep the jetta with extra warranty with will hopefully cover HPFP and DPF
b. drive until the deadline and do buyback(most likely)
c. our keep it, get nothing back and hope it last as long as people claim it will without any major repair costs.
Now the problem and thing I'm struggling with is:
If I do buyback now I payoff note I walk away with about $12,000, but that's essentially a down payment and 5 more years of car payments. What is the benefit for me in this scenario? The way I see, it is I've paid close to 12,000 plus maintenance and repairs of at least $5,000. Seems like a break even scenario, plus the fact that a comparable replacement will need financing. Add to the fact of all the problems with turning these things back and VW making like payments to outstanding bank loans.
If I wait a year I collect $14,000 or make a out a little better, but also take on the risk of something big happening and possibly being in the hole. and also end up being in payments for 5 years.
Right now the thing that keeps pulling at me is that we cannot afford to have fix a new HPFP, DPF, or grenade DFW.....and as much as enjoy the car, part of me wants to cut bait and run.
Luxury problems, I know but still..we aren't kings either......

Click to expand...

Same feelings here: 2010 JSW. Here's where and when we made our decision - 79,000 miles, the HPFP exploded, leaving us stranded for a couple of hours, 40 miles from home. Not terrible, and VW covered the tow and the repair ($8200) because of the extended, fraud warranty. However, just 2100 miles later, at 81,000k, the DPF went poof, or so we were told by VW dealer service.
Just 2,000 miles after the HPFP, and just 1,000 miles OVER the 80k warranty limit for the DPF (which, by the way, was replaced at 6,000 miles as well).

VWOA says "we won't cover that DPF, no matter if the dealer may have missed it at 79k, and regardless if it was just over the 80k limit.

Essentially, we decided we just can't trust this company Volkswagen anymore, to tell the truth or be fair and honest.

So, on Apr 4, after nearly seven years, we will gladly take the cash and be rid of them until they have an electric car worthy of mention.

The kicker was when I went to the dealer three weeks ago, told them the buyback was happening in April, and asked them to see if they could find a good, certified, used Golf wagon which we could look at as an option to use the cash on.

They still haven't called back, and I've personally found a few on VW dealership online sites.

Bye Bye VW - and thanks for all the fish....

Personally, I'm opting for the buyback at the end of 2018.

But I can see the attractiveness of taking a fix and keeping it. The TDI situation is different than the typical "old car repair" vs "new car depreciation and payments" situation that is faced by just about everybody.

There will be a massive flood of used spare parts...this can make keeping the car very tempting for the shady tree mechanic types.

Yukon4Runner said:

Personally, I'm opting for the buyback at the end of 2018.

But I can see the attractiveness of taking a fix and keeping it. The TDI situation is different than the typical "old car repair" vs "new car depreciation and payments" situation that is faced by just about everybody.

There will be a massive flood of used spare parts...this can make keeping the car very tempting for the shady tree mechanic types.

Click to expand...

If I were a mechanic and did my own repairs, then keeping it would make more sense for sure.

Why should anyone try to convince you of anything? What you do is your own business, based on your own preferences and limits. The only help that people can offer is to provide facts that you may be missing or unclear of. The ultimate decision of what you should do is yours and yours alone.

I had the same visceral reaction to this thread title but rather than acting on impulse and batting out a crabby reply, I exercised a modicum of self restraint and watched this develop into an interesting read. It's an internet forum K1, why else ya on here?

Like interrupting a water cooler March Madness conversation to interject "I hate basketball."

Edit: then again, you ARE freely expressing your opinion on an internet forum, so there's that... :/

He's basically old man "get off my lawn" background noise.

TDIsaver said:

Without dieselgate, your car would be worth way less than $14750. Probably $8K trade in.

Keeping it is foolish. Selling it to buy a 2017 is also foolish. Car payments / debt = bad.

Dieselgate is such a gift to help people get out of debt. Don't squander the opportunity.

Click to expand...

I wish I'd written this (boldface). Well Done, amigo



ez

PacCoastFwy923 said:

. It's an internet forum K1, why else ya on here?
. :/

Click to expand...

^^^^^^^

2015-2017 vehicles are better than 2010 vehicles with 124,000 miles. Take the cash and upgrade. Used or new is your call. These opportunities usually come once in a lifetime.

If it were me, I'd do the buyback ASAP and use the cash as a down payment on a new(er) car. VW is offering to hand you much more cash than the car is worth and an opportunity to find a low mileage replacement with almost assuredly lower maintenance costs/better reliability vs the next few years of continued TDI ownership.

VeeDubTDI said:

A is attractive if they offer an outstanding warranty like they are on 2015 TDIs.

Click to expand...

If a fix is approved, the warranty is going to be very similar. It isn't required to last quite as long (4/48 from fix, or 10/120 from new), but the coverage is the same--that's mandated by the settlement agreements.

I think it is fine to advise people to not do stupid things, to help them with facts to make their own decisions.

For example, when some were advising people that they could remove whatever parts they wanted, so long as their car would still move under its own power, I advised them to not do that, before Judge Breyer did the same.

Some here said, strip as much as you like, so long as the vehicle will still move under its own power. How did that reckless advice turn out?

I guess I was an old man, yelling to keep off my lawn, when I dispensed the advice to turn in the car with as much of the original equipment it came with.

Then there are others here who think that VW's outrageous behavior sanctions retaliation beyond turning in your car and getting paid for it as per the settlement. The kitty litter guy comes to mind, intending to sabotage any possibility that the turned in car could be repaired and resold. Again, I was an old man yelling, telling people not to do that.

Advice is fine if it keeps people from going off the rails.

But it is not anyone's role here to "convince" anyone that they should sell back vs keep, or vice versa. Both are reasonable choices that an individual has to make on their own.

For the sake of this thread being derailed over semantics and to not further upset anymore members. My intentions were to get a discussion going and maybe help me better understand the benefits of the buyback versus keeping the car outright. Next time I will be more critical of the words I choose. I appreciate all the feedback, save for a few. Please let's keep this on topic. I think it's going to help more people than we thought.

The amount of your buyback is similar to mine. I'll walk away with about 12k after my loan is paid off if I take the buyback right now. However my life situation is different but maybe my thought process will give you some ideas.

I drive 120miles round trip to work - but only 8 times a month (fireman shift work schedule) however I also drive a 120 round trip to see my fiancé so I'm currently putting on more miles then allowed - but not by much and still less then normal depreciation.

I'm probably going to be switching jurisdictions and taking a pay cut for one year. While my new take home pay will cover my expenses (including car payment) it will be a little tighter for the first year. However every payment I make (approx $400 almost all of which is on principle) will basically come back to me if I take the buyback.

I'm getting married in the fall. Using the buyback to get out my loan would be awesome but I'm not in a spot where I need to be out of it to get married. .

I've already done a DPF delete, EGR delete, and a CP3 upgrade. So I don't have those concerns. But that also makes it hard to get "the fix" if there is one. My biggest upcoming expense is the DSG service at 80k and timing belt at 100k. I have a great independent VW tech that costs way less then the dealer.

So here's my plan. I love the car and as of now plan to keep it long term. Getting 45-50mpg on my commute is awesome (all highway cruising at 2000rpm) and as already stated getting something else a lot of additional fees and taxes. If I take the new job and after a couple of months if money is just too tight I'll take the buyback and use $10k and get a little Honda or Toyota for my commute and take the rest, put it towards the wedding/honeymoon, and lose the monthly payment (since I'll be paying cash for something used and not going back into debt). If money is good then come summer of 2018 re-evaluate the situation. The car will be paid off in less then a year from that point. If I don't need out of the loan I'll just pay the last 10 months as planned and then motor on in a great little car for many more years being loan/debt free.

Hopefully there's something helpful in there for you. Of course YMMV and take it for what it is.

I have a 2012 JSW 6m with 58K. No issues with the car so far and if there was I can repair just about anything. That said the $21K they are willing to pay me I am going to take and put in the bank. I've already lined up a replacement which is a 02 A4 Quattro. I will miss the TDI and feel bad about sending it back but financially I would be foolish to turn down this opportunity. The couple things that keep me from keeping till the end of 2018 or longer are the risk of it being totaled before the last buy out dates and after that the availability of parts/ other support. Some say there will be a flood of used parts but whose to say they won't all be crushed for recycling?

I am finding the A4 B6 has incredible aftermarket support which has made it cost effective to refurbish the car for daily driver use. I was hoping the CR TDI would be the same but with this whole dieselgate fiasco I am afraid that will not be the case and it maybe difficult to keep these on the road for 10+ years.

Here's my 2 cents on the matter. You have a 7 year old car with 124k miles on it. Nobody is going to give you $14+k for that car no matter what happens to their resale value in the next 1.5 years. Besides, you'll have 158k+ miles on it at this rate by the end of next year. If you really love the car and don't think you can live without the diesel, then keep it until 2018 and see if they offer a fix. Even if you only get the minimum $5,100 Modification amount, you also get the extended warranty. So in essence you get almost 40% of your buyback number if you get it fixed. But this decision is really based on the emotional attachment you have to this particular car.

Now the rationale approach would be to say if I have the fix done, I now have an 8 year old car with more than 158k miles and it will need some maintenance in the future. If you don't do the work yourself, you better budget at least $2k a year for the unexpected non engine related things that may go wrong. If the DSG goes out, there's a huge expense right there. If it's your primary vehicle, do you really have confidence driving a car with 150k + miles? My personal experience is that while a car with 150k+ miles can be a reliable daily driver, I will expect that I have to do a lot more day to day maintenance on it than a car with half that mileage. Mechanical things wear out, its a fact of life. But you do have the peace of mind that the highest dollar engine related items will be covered.

Now what would I do? Assuming I loved the car, I'd keep it until the last date for the buyback (BTW, register on the VWGOA Claims site now if you haven't already done so.) At that time I would execute the buyback and use the $14k towards a newer used car. If you had to have a JSW or Golf Sport Wagon, buy a gasser. It's the same car minus the diesel engine. Now given I never have had a love affair with my Jetta, but rather looked at it as a very good commuter car, I personally would execute the buyback ASAP, and buy something else. If fuel economy were the driving factor, I'd consider a nice used prius or other hybrid option. If I could live with the fuel economy of a normal VW gasser and really wanted a JSW, I'd buy one of those.

Here's a couple examples of what you could get. With $12k down, you'd probably only be financing about $7-8k after taxes and fees, and if you negotiate well that could even be less. This would get you a 1 year old car with only 7k miles on it, and only slightly worse fuel economy than you get now.

http://www.lhmauto.com/inventory/ce...portwagen-fwd-station-wagon-3vwc17auxgm514141

Non-VW Prius Option Example?

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ctd/6058671334.html

BTW, lets look at the fuel economy savings for a minute:

2010 Jetta TDI JSW - Assume you average 36mpg and drive 18k miles a year (based on your 124k miles) you would spend about $1,200 per year on diesel fuel (assumes $2.40 per gallon).

2016 Golf 1.8T SW - All other assumptions the same. Assume you average 28mpg you would spend about $1,414 per year on gasonline (assuming $2.20 per gallon.)

So the question you have to ask yourself is this. Do I want a 6-7 year newer car with 1/10th of the miles on it, factory warranty, near the same fuel economy and have payments for maybe a 24 month period at about what you are currently paying, or you could keep your 8 year old 124+K mile TDI? I know what I would do. Not to mention, I didn't even pose the option of buying a slightly older vehicle for $12k or less, which would leave you debt free and having a newer car.

VeeDubTDI said:

My advice is to rule out option C, and focus on A and B.

A is attractive if they offer an outstanding warranty like they are on 2015 TDIs.

B is attractive if you want to maximize your depreciation-free driving and collect a big check at the end of 2018.

Which scenario works best for you long-term, none of us know.

You also have another possibility. Watch the used TDI market during 2017 and 2018 and see how Sportwagen values are doing. If they are in high demand, it may be possible to fix it, sell it privately, and realize a tidy profit. Sportwagen TDI values will probably depend on what the fix is and how many get fixed vs crushed.

Click to expand...

I agree with this. Option C would be the absolute worst choice. VW is offering either $14K and getting a different car or $5K and keeping the car with a fix. For my 10 JSW, I'm still waiting to see what the fix is. If I decide to get the fix, even at 8 years old, it will be a nice car to offer to one of the kids. If I decide to do the buyback, it will be a great downpayment on something new(er).

We already turned in the 11 Golf becasue we had an extra car and could use the cash for other things. The real incentive was that we drove that car five and a half years for basically nothing. Ok full disclosure: I put on a set of tires (~$500) and about $3000 in diesel in the tank.

Decided to go through with buyback ASAP......just got a MIL light....This car hasn't had anything major since I've had it(knock on wood) but I get some sort of malfunction or CEL every 3 months it seems. as much as I like the car i no longer trust it and I can't afford a major financial set back.

Thanks for all your input, much appreciated. I'm hoping to sell the Nokians or at least swap them out and find a replacement they'll fit on.

I'm considering Acura TSX sportwagen.........I know they stopped making this model, but I prefer wagons over crossovers and I've always considered Honda's to be a safe bit. Any input on this model car? Thanks Jeff

I never really shopped the TSX Sports Wagon, beyond looking it over at the car show. It was on my list but the TDI was a bit less money, which mattered to me at that time. (I'd just retired and my pensions and SS didn't kick in for a few years, so I was spending down savings.)

The TSX wagon was the European Accord wagon, federalized for sale in the US. 2014 was the last model year imported into the US. I thought it was quite nice, and I'd had good experiences with an Acura and a Honda. So if I'd been forced to execute my TDI buyback immediately, I'd have purchased the lowest-mile CPO TSX Sport Wagon I could find. Since there's no time pressure on the buyback, I'm waiting. There are a couple of new entries into the market for 2018 that interest me.

I suspect that you'll be happy with a TSX wagon. It won't get the mileage of a TDI; it's automatic-only (5-speed to boot); but it's nice and cargo area approaches that of the JSW.

Why not a gasoline powered JSW?

to the OP i'm in the same boat myself '10 JSW power moon option that iv'e never seen the mid/ high 40's mpg on like others on this forum. (On country roads i can but not at highway speed, even slower ones).
My situation differs in that my car has a salvaged title and it's only got 54k on it.

Still buying something close to comparable new would leave me still a little in debt with either less mpg, less space, or no fun to drive until they come out with something that compares.
I chose buyback due to the amount i would get-$19.6k vs. what the car is worth on the used market, but it's in great shape, very dependable and everything from the accident has been fixed.
I already missed 2 buyback appointments and have not scheduled a 3rd because it's hard to find a worthy replacement.
No sound advice here, but i can relate.