A/C Compressor Refrigerant Control Valve

sptsailing

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Location
Safety Harbor, FL
TDI
2006 Jetta Manual, stock with Panzer Plate & Franko6 modified EGR cooler & CAM
A/C theory

That's a very interesting picture... My Wife's 2010 TDI, with a Sanden Model 1601 compressor (VW P/N 1K0 820 859 Q), has a snap in valve with the set screw style valve, but the plunger inside it was sort of a cross between the two in the picture - it was almost identical to the one on the right in your picture, but the 'nib' on top that the spring sits on was a touch longer.

Also real interesting is the valve I ordered from Autozone was listed as being for the PXE13/PXE16 compressors (Autozone part number MT2282), but it was totally different than the one in the car. According to Sanden's website, the Model 1601 is a PXE16. Also according to their website the 2010 TDI is supposed to have a model 4573, which is also a PXE16.

The control valve that's in the car, from everything I can find, is the control valve that you'd find in a PX16 compressor, not a PXE16. :confused::confused:

At any rate, while it was out, my friend and I took it apart and cleaned it up - there was debris inside it and the plunger definitely was sticky initially - cleaned it all up and put it back together and initially, the AC was working right. We shut it down to heat load the cabin and test how well it removed the heat, and when we turned the A/C back on - nothing. So I need to order the right part and return the wrong one.

Why couldn't they just stick to the tried and true clutch driven compressor??

Does anyone have any thoughts as to what the story is here?
IMHO, the VW/Sanden approach actually makes more sense the the clutch style compressors. With a clutch style, the engaged compressor operates full blast until certain temperature and/or pressure readings are obtained, then shuts off until other readings are reached, upon which the cycle repeats. The variable compressors like Sanden are much smoother in their approach, adjusting their continuous output according to demand. I would imagine, but have no supporting actual data, that variable compressors extract less net energy per btu from the engine as well.
 

Gittyup

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Mar 7, 2011
Location
SE Louisiana I-12/I-55 Crossroads
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen DSG
P { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } My 2010 JSW started having symptoms last summer & the South Louisiana heat was a bit much this year. After about 3 hours of research on different forums & comparing different options for a replacement valve, the fix is in as of this morning. I have a friend that is a GM certified mechanic (Mr Wrench is his nic name) that does my work. I do the research, provide him the links, buy the parts & so far have been able to accomplish all repairs & maintenance on my 133,000 miles JSW. Because of their reputation, I spent the little extra & went with PolarBear for the replacement valve. $71 delivered. I have the snap ring version.


The valve was a not easy to remove. We had to do the 10 psi trick to get the old valve out.


In researching which valve I needed, I called the stealership for help on which valve I had. Using the VIN, they could only tell me which brand compressor I had but not which valve. They told me that the valve is not listed as a replacement part. HHHmmmm! They said they could sell me a new compressor.


Using an inspection mirror (mirror on a stick) I was able to tell which valve I had. I was able to do this without removing my aluminum skid plate.


The forums & how to's have saved me several thousand dollars in the three & a half years I have owned my car.


Todays fix was a total of $200.



I wonder how many VW owners end up paying major $'s for such a simple fix.
 

lyssla

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Location
NY
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
This is probably a silly question, but is this the snap ring version of the valve?

I'll also add my thanks for this and other great advice I've picked up lurking here for the past few years!
 

oh_yeatdi

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2013
Location
Dallas
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
I swapped my 2010 golf today. You must have a 90* snap ring plier, the clearance is tight.
To remove the valve, which is under vacuum (from AC removal), pull on the knob on the top of the valve using a plier. Wiggle/twist at the same time.

Will report if this fixes my issue

 
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kyle_h

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Aug 8, 2012
Location
Ottawa area, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2014 Touareg TDI Execline R-Line
The n280 valve on the newer cars is just a solenoid isn't it? I thought he actual mechanical part was part of the compressor


Sent from my iPhone using the Tapatalk app, so that explains the typos...
 

Scorpo900

Active member
Joined
May 6, 2013
Location
Florida
TDI
Golf 2011 4D
Did you add compressor oil or replaced the dryer when replacing the valve only? So far my understanding is that is not needed. I'll be doing the work this weekend. Thanks.
 

Scorpo900

Active member
Joined
May 6, 2013
Location
Florida
TDI
Golf 2011 4D
The n280 valve on the newer cars is just a solenoid isn't it? I thought he actual mechanical part was part of the compressor


Sent from my iPhone using the Tapatalk app, so that explains the typos...
I'll check , but I believe the little rod is inside the housing where the solenoid is.
 

oh_yeatdi

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Joined
Aug 12, 2013
Location
Dallas
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
Update: SUCCESS

No need to replace the drier with the valve. The only time to replace the drier and expansion valve components are when replacing the entire compressor, as the assumption would be a failure may have contaminated those parts.

Given that our compressor's are fine, and the only issue is the valve, there is no need to swap anything other than the valve.

From what I've gathered, both the older and newer valves utilize a mechanical part of the valve, it open's and closes to control cooling levels.
 

chiefmoose

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Location
Arley, AL
TDI
09 Jetta 2.0 CBEA
I have a 2009 Jetta. I had to replace a compressor at 44,000 miles.(not under warranty) Now, just over 100k, the dealership says it needs another one. The third compressor on a five year old car???? After reading this thread, I think it is the RCV valve. I asked the service manager if this was possible, and he had never heard of an RCV valve. My AC is intermittent, which leads me to believe the compressor is good. I wonder how many $700. compressors they sell, when it is only a $50.00 valve? Someone should do an AC compressor failure thread on here. I bet the numbers are very high. I could have bought a Hyundai or Kia for half the money, and probably more reliable.
 

Scorpo900

Active member
Joined
May 6, 2013
Location
Florida
TDI
Golf 2011 4D
I have a 2009 Jetta. I had to replace a compressor at 44,000 miles.(not under warranty) Now, just over 100k, the dealership says it needs another one. The third compressor on a five year old car???? After reading this thread, I think it is the RCV valve. I asked the service manager if this was possible, and he had never heard of an RCV valve. My AC is intermittent, which leads me to believe the compressor is good. I wonder how many $700. compressors they sell, when it is only a $50.00 valve? Someone should do an AC compressor failure thread on here. I bet the numbers are very high. I could have bought a Hyundai or Kia for half the money, and probably more reliable.
Please don't miss interpret me, I do agree these cars are overpriced in US. But consider the following, you can replace a RCV instead of the full compressor, dryer, and accumulator. Which is what they do always. I think better is to complain to VW USA for not providing just RCV replacement only as part of their service, with a limited warranty of 1 month or so only on the RCV. These cars are made to be fixed, not replace components like other manufacturers. I've owned Toyota all my life, and their cars are solid ( most of them) but when things fail, you have to replace, cannot just fix it. In US we have catered unnecessary services by our own lack of understanding. if more people understood their cars better and relied less in mechanics to tell them that the gas cap is loose, things be cheaper and we could trust dealer shops again. I like your idea of creating a thread for the compressor failures that leads to this thread and see how many end up here . thanks.:)
 

Tuco

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Location
Las Vegas
TDI
2010 Jetta
I have a 2009 Jetta. I had to replace a compressor at 44,000 miles.(not under warranty) Now, just over 100k, the dealership says it needs another one. The third compressor on a five year old car???? After reading this thread, I think it is the RCV valve. I asked the service manager if this was possible, and he had never heard of an RCV valve. My AC is intermittent, which leads me to believe the compressor is good. I wonder how many $700. compressors they sell, when it is only a $50.00 valve? Someone should do an AC compressor failure thread on here. I bet the numbers are very high. I could have bought a Hyundai or Kia for half the money, and probably more reliable.
Your first compressor probably only needed a new RCV as well, unfortunately.
 

Tuco

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Location
Las Vegas
TDI
2010 Jetta
I asked the service manager if this was possible, and he had never heard of an RCV valve.
Pretty sad when the dealership service manager knows less about the car than you do, if he was being honest. It's not like this isn't a common problem.
 

chiefmoose

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Location
Arley, AL
TDI
09 Jetta 2.0 CBEA
Replaced a front wheel bearing at 40k. Main power supply relay at 75k. Belt tensioner and alternator pulley at 98k.(not sure which broke the belt and wrecked the tensioner) I am so thankful for all the information on here.
 

newbury

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2003
Location
Fairfax, VA/Fulton, MS
TDI
2009 JSW
Another replacement

On our 2009 TDI Sportwagen we were getting the "symptoms" of RCV failure. Drove it down to Mississippi in mid August and it stopped blowing cold air entirely about the end of the trip.
Luckily our son is an a/c expert and agreed to "check" it out Saturday BEFORE Labor Day so I could buy the part and he could install it the next weekend.
Mirror trick for getting the info off the compressor, we've got the snap ring type. Easy.
Ordered it from Polar Bear Saturday, was told the order would be fulfilled Tuesday and she thought it might get to me in Mississippi Thursday, but Friday at the latest, via USPS. Very pleasant people. Got a call back Tuesday, they wanted to make sure we needed the snap ring type.
Yup, painless

And then the first problem area - USPS
Rec'd email from Polar Bear sent 08:43 Sept 2 confirming purchase
Rec'd email from USPS saying package was going to ship and I should check the address. Yup address correct.
Package picked up at FORT LAUDERDALE, FL Post office, Sept 2
It went from there to OPA LOCKA, FL on Sept. 3rd.
It went from there to CHATTANOOGA, TN on Sept. 4th.
It went from there to ALLEN PARK, MI on Sept. 5th and was "out for delivery", which is about 700 miles from my house.
At which point I started sending heated emails to the Post Office and told our son to try for another weekend.
It got BACK to Memphis and to Fulton, MS and I finally got it Monday afternoon.
So, lesson reinforced - don't trust the Post office.
Finally got it up to our son on the 14th. He did his evacuation procedure and the 10 PSI trick. He had slight difficulty getting the valve out but didn't break anything on it and I look forward to a disassembly and seeing what's in it.
HOWEVER, he couldn't get the snap ring BACK in with the Harbor Freight snap ring pliers we had and we had to get another set of pliers.
Lesson learned - use a good set of pliers.
He snapped it back in, pulled a vacuum for 30 minutes, filled it back up and it blows very cold.
Much less expensive than a full compressor swap.

So I would suggest anyone contemplating this procedure have the foresight to have an extremely capable offspring and a good pair of right angle snap ring pliers. Given that and the correct part it should be easily dooable in about an hour, most of which is spent ensuring there is no leak. And give USPS a week for a 3 day delivery.
 

BITRBO

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Location
Miami, FL
TDI
'09 JSW DSG
^Nice - Glad to hear it worked out for you in the end. I've also learned the hard way when cutting it close with USPS/FedEx/UPS... :/

So I need some help here folks. I had my RCV changed a few weeks back by a local shop (very knowledgeable and trustworthy), and I had super cold air up until early last week when the car started acting up again... It was a lot like before: very erratic, with a noticeable correlation to slow / stop & go traffic; even with the air (set on MAX) it would warm up and cool off, almost as if the compressor was shutting off. It cycled on & off every couple minutes or so and only gave me short moments of cold air, but mostly warm. So it took it back to the shop and the mechanic said the valve is fine, and pressure was fine on the Freon, but he noticed that neither of the radiator fans are running when the A/C was on as they should be. So basically there isn't enough heat transfer to cool off the Freon, so when the pressure builds and gets too high, it kicks off the compressor until things cool off again, and then cycles the compressor back on. He then put the car up on the rack with it running and the A/C on and showed me from the bottom that the large aux fan looks like it's trying to start, but won't for some reason. It just BARELY, ever so slightly twitches, almost as if it's only getting a tiny bit of power, but not enough to overcome the magnets in the motor...

Now I just replaced that fan myself THIS January with a new Beru-Meyle unit from ECS, as the old one had a few cracked blades that the previous owner tried to repair with epoxy, so the balance was all off and it would vibrate like crazing when running. Anyway, I hooked up VCDS to check for codes, and found the following:

2 Faults Found:
00229 - Refrigerant Pressure
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
00819 - High Pressure Sensor (G65)
009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent

So I cleared the codes and ran an output test under 01-Engine for the Aux Coolant Fan, but nothing happened... I wasn't sure if that's supposed to cycle the large fan or both, but nothing would happen and I could cycle other tests just fine, so I know the cable/software was working. So I removed the fan assembly from the car and was getting ready to send it back to ECS, when I decided to do one last test with a direct 12v supply from the battery to see if it was really dead (I think I read that here)... Sure enough, the thing worked! I still had the old fan in the garage, so I hooked that up with the 12v supply too and that worked in the exact same way! So now I'm totally stumped... : /

It's my understanding that the fan control module/unit on the CJAA/CBEA is PART of the fan, and the fan appears to work fine with a DC power supply, so could the module still be bad? Is there another module or relay elsewhere that could be bad? I saw the fan twitching while it was on the rack, so it looks like it's trying to start, but won't... My mechanic doesn't think it's the compressor (and neither do I), as once I get going at highway speeds the car still cools really, really well. Unfortunately, that's only 5 min of my daily commute, and the rest of the 55 min is grueling stop & go traffic... :(

Sorry for the long post, but I have NO a/c and it's still 90* w/ 90% humidity here in Miami, so ANY help would be appreciated!

TIA
 
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meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
two thoughts.

if the fan runs with power, power may not be making it (I know, duh....)

second, with the vcds, you have a rich set of data to record and look at.

might want to do some logging with the HVAC controller on your drives to and fro. and figure out what is happening.
 

BITRBO

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Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Location
Miami, FL
TDI
'09 JSW DSG
two thoughts.

if the fan runs with power, power may not be making it (I know, duh....)

second, with the vcds, you have a rich set of data to record and look at.

might want to do some logging with the HVAC controller on your drives to and fro. and figure out what is happening.
This is a good idea, but what block(s) should I log/measure?
 

BITRBO

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Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Location
Miami, FL
TDI
'09 JSW DSG
Anyone else have any thoughts? I re-installed the old fan this morning (which was working earlier this year, BTW), and turned on the ignition & A/C, but neither fan turned on. I didn't have time to run another output test through VCDS, but I have a feeling it'll be the same result...

So how can both fans work w/ a separate 12v D.C. supply, but don't work when connected to the car? Is there a fuse or relay somewhere else that I should check, cause the control module is part of the larger fan AFAIK (which seems to be working), so not sure what else to check... I don't think it's the RCV I just replaced or the compressor either, cause the A/C seems to work good once I get going at highway speeds (since there is plenty of airflow through the radiators).

Any help is appreciated!
 

Tuco

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Feb 22, 2014
Location
Las Vegas
TDI
2010 Jetta
Have you measured pressure differential between high pressure side vs low pressure side?
 

BITRBO

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Dec 19, 2013
Location
Miami, FL
TDI
'09 JSW DSG
Have you measured pressure differential between high pressure side vs low pressure side?
I have not, no. Would this be done mechanically or using VCDS, cause unfortunately I don't have any HVAC tools/instrumentation... :(
 

Tuco

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Location
Las Vegas
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2010 Jetta
I have not, no. Would this be done mechanically or using VCDS, cause unfortunately I don't have any HVAC tools/instrumentation... :(
I'm not sure if this can be done in vcds. It would be worth checking around. High pressure on the low pressure side could be a good indicator of a clogged RCV. Even though you just replaced it, maybe there was a lot of debris left in the system, and it quickly clogged the new valve?
 

BITRBO

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Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Location
Miami, FL
TDI
'09 JSW DSG
I'm not sure if this can be done in vcds. It would be worth checking around. High pressure on the low pressure side could be a good indicator of a clogged RCV. Even though you just replaced it, maybe there was a lot of debris left in the system, and it quickly clogged the new valve?
Ok, good to know. I'll ask my A/C guy to check it out... Guess I'm not sure if that explains why the fans aren't coming on though. Or does it?
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
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Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
I hooked up the VCDS for a short run.

the HVAC controller has a good set of sensors, including coolant pressure ( R134a, not the G12/water stuff in the radiator) I assume high side, and radiator fan spec and actual.


this would tell you if the system is trying to command the fan on.

and you may want to run a scan and see if any codes show up.
 

markward

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Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
I came across this thread looking for an AC problem on my wife's 2011 Sportwagen. This sure seems like the answer and I just wanted to thank those that took the time to post the information along with the photos. So thank you.

Update: valve is installed and AC is working normal again. Thank you.
 
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redbarron55

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Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
The fans have to run along with the bypass flappers on the back of the shroud.
The flaps let the air blow through at road speed without the fans and they close the ports at low speeds so that the fan air will not be bypassed.
My car was missing one of the flaps and I think the higher temps in the system from the lack of airflow is what started my problems with the RCV.
The VCDS has great readings to diagnose the A/C and if you are building system pressure and the fans are not running, but you have cooling at road speed then the fans are your current problem. They have to run at stand still. Also the flaps have to be in place and sealing the shroud. They are on the upper back of the shroud on the passenger side over the small fan if I remember correctly.
 
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