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Old May 20th, 2017, 12:04   #181
Owain@malonetuning
 
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Thank you Brian for the non stop knowledge and real world experience.

Speaking of high pressure fuel pump failures and soft camshafts... how about that freevalve tech progression?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cF...annel=%2FDRIVE

Qoros, a Chinese manufacturer, is currently testing a camless motor in their 3-hatchback. Traditionally it's a port injected 1.6T 16V with 160HP/175lb-ft. Koenigsegg is claiming a ~45% power and torque increase, 15% fuel economy, and 35% fewer emissions (mostly due to cold start improvements). They currently have 150K/yr production and are well underway testing this system. Many companies have looked into this extensively but other than fiat we haven't really seen much in terms of weird valve designs in mass produced vehicles.

The valves can be controlled individually and infinitely, it has 8 inlet and 8 exhaust port.
- No need for a wastegate as 4 exhaust outlets don't enter the turbo, so those four valves can be opened more as needed
- No need for a throttle body
- No need for a cam/HPFP assembly
- The pre-cat converter can be removed, since the exhaust can be heated much faster and most pollution occurs during cold starts
- The entire engine assembly is approx 15kg lighter, 50mm shorter, 70mm shorter and narrower in this application.
- You could probably run a single drive belt
- Square valve profile race use
- Raised CR from 9 to 12:1
motors don't need to get any smaller, they need to get smarter first. Part of that is with simplicity, HPFP failures cost more than a mk4 tdi typically and walnut blasting isn't fun. Twin injection is a good start. Hopefully this will get a running shot against those dull hybrids. With VGTs and plasma ignition this should see 50+MPG easily, just a matter of getting the price down.
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Old May 26th, 2017, 10:34   #182
tikal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
The BPY for whatever reason was never as bad about gunking as the CCTA. etc. engines. Other than some pretty abysmal oil consumption, and some HPFP cam follower failures, the BPY was (is) a pretty good engine.

There may be a link between the cam/follower failure and constantly running low on a oil, too. Not to mention so many people using the wrong oil.

One of my customers has a 2007 GTI, and he bought it new, which was early on but already we knew about the BPY's appetite for oil. I gave him strict warnings about this, armed him with an extra 5L jug of oil after each service to take with him. And 200k+ miles later, it still runs like a top, and it still uses every bit of that extra 5L of 502.00 spec 5w40 between its 10k mile oil changes... same as it did when new. And I have never done a single thing to that engine besides spark plugs, coils (of course ) and scheduled timing belts. That's it. Cam, follower, HPFP, etc. all original. It is starting to get some seepage at the rear chain cover, which is not a big deal to fix on the transverse applications... the longitudinal ones are a bit trickier.
This is where the Renewable Lubricants oil would come handy (instead of VW 502):

http://renewablelube.com/files/8914/...tor_Oil_LA.pdf

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...21#Post1173819
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Old May 26th, 2017, 12:21   #183
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I don't give a hoot about engine sizing, up or down. Give me my diesel back!
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Old May 26th, 2017, 17:22   #184
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My bet is passenger diesels will be eliminated from the US market eventually.
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Old May 26th, 2017, 18:04   #185
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Originally Posted by POWERSTROKE View Post
My bet is passenger diesels will be eliminated from the US market eventually.
Not just the US, they're attracting more and more attention in Europe as well. Attention of the negative kind.

I've given up on them for N. America, the Rube Goldberg plumbing required to make the cheat... er... pass emissions is just a maintenance nightmare. With gas engines getting better, the added cost just won't be worth it. My 1.8 TSI averages exactly 1.0 L/100 km more than my previous TDI, and right now diesel is 3 cents more per litre than RUG where I live, and was much more than that over the winter.

Now FCA is in trouble for the cheating with their diesels on the RAM and Grand Cherokee.

It was fun while it lasted...
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Old May 26th, 2017, 20:03   #186
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Fingers crossed that Mazda still brings the CX-5 diesel to the US. And the Traverse is still supposed to be coming. But I have a hunch a hybrid will be in my future. The new Tiguan coming this summer with the powertrain from the Jetta Hybrid would be nice. I was quite impressed when I drove a Jetta (admittedly a short drive).
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Old Yesterday, 03:57   #187
POWERSTROKE
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I'm still driving both my 02 TDIs. Still really like them although they're getting up there in age. With that being said, I pretty much agree with you. The regulations have forced these engines out of the market for good. Quite frankly, how can manufacturers make it worthwhile? They can't. With gas engines getting 36 mpg and upwards, its just not even worth the maintenance with these new systems that have been introduces to make it work.
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Old Yesterday, 04:25   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POWERSTROKE View Post
My bet is passenger diesels will be eliminated from the US market eventually.
That's a pretty safe bet. Like betting the sun will fizzle out, ...eventually.
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Old Yesterday, 08:04   #189
oilhammer
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Meh, since the first of this year I've bought two more diesels. And if there won't be any more new ones, I won't ever buy another new car. And the EPA can squirm when all my old DPF-less diesels are still puttering along. Heck, I even have two that never even had a catalyst.
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Old Yesterday, 11:27   #190
POWERSTROKE
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I'm keeping my diesels and will start a collection of acvws. Already have one of those. They're cool because you can have almost everything you need in the trunk to fix a breakdown.
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Old Yesterday, 19:33   #191
tikal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POWERSTROKE View Post
I'm still driving both my 02 TDIs. Still really like them although they're getting up there in age. With that being said, I pretty much agree with you. The regulations have forced these engines out of the market for good. Quite frankly, how can manufacturers make it worthwhile? They can't. With gas engines getting 36 mpg and upwards, its just not even worth the maintenance with these new systems that have been introduces to make it work.
Maybe on certain specific conditions gas engines match or even beat their light duty diesel counterparts MPG. Now add the numbers take the average and the diesel engine pulls ahead and does not look back!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikal View Post
For 2015 year for these three hatchbacks:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - Fuelly miles - - - Fuelly Average MPG
2015 Golf TSI - - - - 1,000,000 - - - - 29.8
2015 Golf TDI - - - - 5,180,000 - - - - 41.7
2015 Mazada 3 - - - 1,000,000 - - - - -32.1
Cost of ownership is, of course, very complex and also subjective.
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Old Today, 06:14   #192
evantful
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Maybe on certain specific conditions gas engines match or even beat their light duty diesel counterparts MPG. Now add the numbers take the average and the diesel engine pulls ahead and does not look back!
Again I think the issue with those numbers is how the driver is using their cars.

Look at the Miles Driven number, then factor in that the TDI in a best case scenario made up for 50% of sales of the 2015 Golf. What that says is on average the TDI is being driven much longer per trip than a TSI, most likely on the highway, and thats going to have a massive effect on the F/E numbers presented.

My 1.8 TSI long term average having just passed 18k (on track for 24k miles a year) is 38.1mpg
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Old Today, 07:00   #193
tikal
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Again I think the issue with those numbers is how the driver is using their cars.
Look at the Miles Driven number, then factor in that the TDI in a best case scenario made up for 50% of sales of the 2015 Golf. What that says is on average the TDI is being driven much longer per trip than a TSI, most likely on the highway, and thats going to have a massive effect on the F/E numbers presented.
My 1.8 TSI long term average having just passed 18k (on track for 24k miles a year) is 38.1mpg
Yes that is a point to consider also. I do not disagree.

You would have to look in more detail to see the percentage of hwy vs city for the numbers above. Also it could be that the TDIs are more driven loaded than their gasoline counterparts. I do not know.

Indeed the gasoline internal combustion engines have improved/refined in the last xx years. But the same applies to the light duty diesel engines, no? On top of that TDIs had to deal with much more strict emission regulations. Despite of this the Central Theorem Limit Theorem (CLT) tells us by looking at databases such as Fuelly that still, on the average, the MPG of a light duty diesel engine is better by at least 20% (approximately).

Last edited by tikal; Today at 07:01. Reason: Adding separation lines
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