Pierre's 2003 Golf TDI Build

Matt finally came back from TDI Fest via Chico... Matt-98AHU coming to N.CA (north of SAC); mini GTG? (9/29 - 9/30)

An now he is hard at work putting my new bottom end in... engine came out tonight and now taking apart all the components to reassemble them on the new block...

schwing!!!!!

Some slight modifications to the oil pump needed to make it fit..... TDI oil pan will not work... checking on using a steel pan off an MKIV gasser manana

A little dremel to add some clearance around one of the supports




A little heat to bend the oil suction up to allow the the added thickness of the Girdle plate.





New oil pump gear installed.

Why raise the pickup? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the oil pump and pan are both moved lower the same amount, so the pickup is in the same relative position to the bottom of the pan. Yes if you fill the dipstick to its normal position, you'll have more oil volume in the pan and the pickup will be siphoning from deeper in the oil, but why would that be bad?

Also, Why are those mainstuds so long? there must be some shorter ones that will allow the pan to be installed with minimal modifications.

oldpoopie said:

Why raise the pickup? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the oil pump and pan are both moved lower the same amount, so the pickup is in the same relative position to the bottom of the pan. Yes if you fill the dipstick to its normal position, you'll have more oil volume in the pan and the pickup will be siphoning from deeper in the oil, but why would that be bad?

Also, Why are those mainstuds so long? there must be some shorter ones that will allow the pan to be installed with minimal modifications.

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These are some good question for Matt Whitbread J... here is my theory...

1- Why raise the pickup? because the oil pump is installed on aluminum spacers about 5/8" thick... you can see those in the pic. without bending it up, it would up hit the bottom of the pan.. bending it up makes it so it will fit a standard oil pan...
I suspect the spacers make up the perfect distance to fit the OE chain, OE tensioner & provided smaller sprocket and provide the chain the correct tension... soooo "Correct me if I'm wrong, but the oil pump and pan are both moved lower the same amount"... no, the oil pump is moved lower by about 5/8" (thickness of the spacer) therefore the oil pick up needs to be bent up by the same amount... I suspect I will have to also add the thickness of the plate distance to my oil dip stick fill line..

You can see the spacers well in this pic



2- Also, Why are those mainstuds so long? I suspect that the these are the closest that ARP makes them... most likely the next size down it just too short... Maybe they make these in 1/2" interval..

oldpoopie said:

Why raise the pickup? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the oil pump and pan are both moved lower the same amount, so the pickup is in the same relative position to the bottom of the pan. Yes if you fill the dipstick to its normal position, you'll have more oil volume in the pan and the pickup will be siphoning from deeper in the oil, but why would that be bad?

Also, Why are those mainstuds so long? there must be some shorter ones that will allow the pan to be installed with minimal modifications.

Click to expand...

As Pierre said, the spacers below the oil pump to be able to use OEM chain/sprockets lowers the pump by .335". So you must nudge the pickup tube by approximately the same amount to maintain pan to pickup clearance.

The studs are so long because that's the closest ARP offers. Next closest stud is .900" shorter, next taller stud is .200" taller. Go figure . They're actually 1.9L saturn headstuds in the ARP catalog LOL . I don't have the pockets for them to make a custom run of studs the perfect length when the only gain it will have is not clearancing the oil pump. The pan would still have to be clearanced for the nuts at the #5 cap.

Engine is mostly back together but that pan clearance issue turns out to be challenge and a major delay... now trying to find a local welder who can modify the pan to add a bump out on it for the studs .... Matt W. where are you when we need an ace welder!!! Wish I had bought the pan from you as part of the kit... not all of us have an aluminum mig gun...LOL

tothemax said:

Engine is mostly back together but that pan clearance issue turns out to be challenge and a major delay... now trying to find a local welder who can modify the pan to add a bump out on it for the studs .... Matt W. where are you when we need an ace welder!!! Wish I had bought the pan from you as part of the kit... not all of us have an aluminum mig gun...LOL

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Is there a reason not to cut the studs down yourself so that they only protrude from the nut a small amount?

Probably because of the allen head in the middle of them. You can get them in and out by locking two nuts together, but just easier with the allen head.

oldpoopie said:

Is there a reason not to cut the studs down yourself so that they only protrude from the nut a small amount?

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I was thinking of doing that J... Cutting them down a 1/2" or so... I am not too worried about loosing the top part wit the female Allen..

Off the welding shop to get the pan customized ...

vdubdezl said:

Probably because of the allen head in the middle of them. You can get them in and out by locking two nuts together, but just easier with the allen head.

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Cut the other end...

oldpoopie said:

Cut the other end...

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Yes J the other end makes way better sense.... the threads are engaged 1" and there is at most 1 1/4" of threads there... So I cut about 3/8" ...which was plenty to get the pan to fit flat after some modifications at the custom chop shop....





After cutting off 3/8" from the bottom of the stud, it looks a lot better.

My machine shop recommended Brian at Road Master to get my oil pan modified..... Man !!! I am soooo glad I found him... He does all kinds of custom work... body work, custom frames, custom turbo systems, IC piping, FMIC ... finally a local place I can get that kind of custom work done and his prices are super reasonable ... He stopped working on the custom low rider he was working on and jump right in to weld up and grind out my oil pan... 45 minutes later and a few buck lighter .. and I was out the door... with and oil pan that fits the girdle...

As soon as Matt comes back from Bezurkeley, we will continue the assembly...





He's got some really neat work in there...

Building out the outside surface with weld metal


Grinding out the inside to make room for the stud, nut & washer


The clearanced pan....


And .... a fitting oil pan

Sweet

And for those who were told that a steel pan would fit... NAAAAAAAAH .. the steel pan does NOT fit ... maybe if I cut the ARP studs totally flush with the nut? It would totally fit if they made is square at both ends but not with the angle on the tranny side...

Is seems like it cannot easily be clearanced because it's so thin as well ... my thoughts are to stick to the aluminum OE one and modify it as show above.

Think the hybrid pan would fit?

I am not sure because I have never seen one... but my guess is NO..... I am guessing NO because I guess it has the same aluminum bottom and bolt pattern as the OE all aluminum one except it has as steel bottom...........

If it's square at both ends and if it's as thin as the steel one at the flange location, then maybe ........I would love to hear from others who have fitted one of these girdle on and what solution they used for their oil pan... from what I learned, seems like the easiest way is to weld and grind out the existing OE oil pan.... provided one is or has access to an ace welder

Calling it quit for the night... engine is assembled and in.....

Damn Pierre, all this work... Everything looks great, and I wish I had a bottom end as stout as yours for sure. It's just a bit of overkill until you swap that hairdryer out, but you know that already. It looks like you should be rolling soon. That's great news about finding the local fabricator. Now you can probably get some custom GTB setup after the slush fund recovers

Good news - She back together.... going and going strong.....



Bad news.... There is a small oil leak coming from the bell housing... That block girdle turned out to be a huge PITA.... Leaking under the block girdle? oil pan? rear main seal......I hope not... v Will have to take off at least the oil pan... maybe the girdle ... and maybe the transmission ... will run 500 miles with the break in oil and then figure out this leak next weekend...

tothemax said:

Bad news.... There is a small oil leak coming from the bell housing... That block girdle turned out to be a huge PITA.... Leaking under the block girdle? oil pan? rear main seal......I hope not... v Will have to take off at least the oil pan... maybe the girdle ... and maybe the transmission ... will run 500 miles with the break in oil and then figure out this leak next weekend...

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I would pull the transmission to clearly id the leak.

Farfromovin said:

Damn Pierre, all this work... Everything looks great, and I wish I had a bottom end as stout as yours for sure. It's just a bit of overkill until you swap that hairdryer out, but you know that already. It looks like you should be rolling soon. That's great news about finding the local fabricator. Now you can probably get some custom GTB setup after the slush fund recovers

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Yes.. .gotta let the slush fund build ... this little escapade with the new bottom end and girdle was quite a drain to it......... And I am not sure the block girdle is even worth it... it causes all kinds of difficulties... I may never have the kind of HP to make it worth while... Anyway, If I cannot get the leak identified and fixed easy, it's coming off for sure...

greengeeker said:

I would pull the transmission to clearly id the leak.

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.... will try everything else first... that 6 speed weigh a ton......

OK, good news... bad news.... again....

Got the car towed back to my garage... after having a massive cloud blue smoke and loss of all power....... IC piping was full of oil...

Finally was able to get the head off... had a cpl bolts stripped on the DP so had to take the turbo bolts off and tried to take it out that way... had a heck of a time b/c a bolt had fallen behind the IM and was holding up the turbo from detaching...

Tnx to Robert's help we were able the get the turbo off and the head off...

Good news: block looks fine, (other than being full of oil)... cylinders looks good, no scratches and no shrapnel in there and crank turns well....... rods look OK at first look but need to measure.... the head looks good too... fewww

Bad news: The turbo looks like it swallowed something..... the shaft is super loose and will not even turn.....no doubt all that oil came from the turbo..

Ugh sorry man!

man, you can't catch a break! Sounds like some of my luck!!

tothemax said:

Yes.. .gotta let the slush fund build ... this little escapade with the new bottom end and girdle was quite a drain to it......... And I am not sure the block girdle is even worth it... it causes all kinds of difficulties... I may never have the kind of HP to make it worth while... Anyway, If I cannot get the leak identified and fixed easy, it's coming off for sure...


.... will try everything else first... that 6 speed weigh a ton......

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Well, you might make enough power to justify the block girdle now Pierre. Sorry about the bad news, but at least you can "justify" a GTB2260vk now And yes, 02M's are HEAVY. I suppose if you're used to swapping it in and out it's easy, but not for mere mortals like myself. I'm not looking forward to putting my tranny back in when it's rebuilt so I feel for you!

Tnx for the kind words of encouragement... here is the before shot..... changing the oil at the GTG.. 600 miles on the new engine.... getting rid of the break in oil ...



here she is back in my garage with her guts torn up.. turbo purchased ..sorry Far went with another 17/22 to get her going right and broken in... A huge thank to Robert who came after the GTG last night and helped me get the head off and assess the damage ...

New 17/22 should be on it's way... I will be sending the head for refacing manana.. and have flex turbo hose coming from RyanP as well... hope we can put her back together in a 3 to 4 weeks.. depending on when I get the head back...

soooooo glad to hear there wasn't more damage. Really looking forward to a ride in this thing when it gets up and running...

Hows your piston protrusion look?