Common rail and biodiesel

Michael Pietro · Apr 21, 2006

I am planning to make my own biodiesel once I purchase a diesel vehicle. I am trying to decide whether to wait for the common rail VW now that the PD TDI is being discontinued. I have read the posts suggesting that the PD TDI is not ideal for biodiesel because of the very high injection pressures and the relative viscosity of biodiesel. It looks like the common rail will also have high injection pressures. Should I just go with an older TDI?

Thanks in advance.

bioTDInBENZ · Apr 21, 2006

Well until the common rail TDI's come here we wont know. All i know is that the new 05-06 Mercedes E320 CDI's with common rail systems are A ok on B100.

Mercedes did tests in india to prove it on the CDI test vehicles they had down there. Ran them on B100 biodiesel made from Jatropha. Some members on the forum been running B100 exclusivly in their E320 CDI with zero problems to report. The engines are refined and sound like a gasser. Heard one myself, to bad the passat doesnt sound as quiet as one of those bad boys but its ok i like the sound.

http://www.mercedes-benz.co.in/pressreleases_TestdriveAtLeh070805.htm

DPM · Apr 22, 2006

PSA won't recommend any higher than B5 in any of their common-rail HDIs. Bear in mind that just about all diesel is B5 is France...

naturist · Apr 23, 2006

The Jeep Liberty CRD is also a common rail system, and it also uses very high pressures. And for what it is worth, Jeep says max 5% biodiesel.

That said, so does VW for ALL their TDIs, PD as well as the older ones.

Based upon the evidence of numbers of people who've been experimenting with biodiesel, the older pre-PD VWs seem to have no trouble with it, and so far, most folks with PD systems report no problems. Ditto the Jeeps and MBs, but there isn't enough data yet to support that contention. And in any case, if a warranty issue arises, any more than 5% and you are on your own with all of them.

whitedog · Apr 23, 2006

Deere uses Common Rail on the newest, Tier III engines and they warrantee up to B20. Different enigne, but it shows that it's not just the injection pressures that determine what can be run.

jayp111 · Apr 23, 2006

naturist said:
The Jeep Liberty CRD is also a common rail system, and it also uses very high pressures. And for what it is worth, Jeep says max 5% biodiesel.

That said, so does VW for ALL their TDIs, PD as well as the older ones.

Based upon the evidence of numbers of people who've been experimenting with biodiesel, the older pre-PD VWs seem to have no trouble with it, and so far, most folks with PD systems report no problems. Ditto the Jeeps and MBs, but there isn't enough data yet to support that contention. And in any case, if a warranty issue arises, any more than 5% and you are on your own with all of them.

I saw a document signed by all Bosche and all of the other big name fuel inj players/manuf stating that they would not support anything with higher than 5% BioD due to to breakdown at high temps and the associated breakdown of seals etc.....can't find it anymore but it was dated sometime in 2k4

jayp111 · Apr 23, 2006

whitedog said:
Deere uses Common Rail on the newest, Tier III engines and they warrantee up to B20. Different enigne, but it shows that it's not just the injection pressures that determine what can be run.

Thats cool. What sorta pressure do they use?

Drivbiwire · Apr 23, 2006

MB approves up to 5% Biodiesel which MUST comply with EN590. In order to run B100 you MUST have installed the VOME or Bio-Diesel conversion option. This is what was run in the India test program. I don't have any of the kits information on hand regarding what is modified in the engine, but you CANNOT run more than 5% without the mod.

From the manual for the 2006 E320 CDI:

DB

Drivbiwire · Apr 23, 2006

CDI = 23,500 psi fuel pressures to feed the rail.

Some mention that the pressures will be going higher in the next few years.

Biodiesel IS NOT COMPATIBLE with the upcoming SCR or Urea injection and NOx filters!!! Biodiesel contaminates the very expensive catalysts and destroys the scrubbing capability. Only Diesel #2 is approved for the BLUTEC systems.

DB

bioTDInBENZ · Apr 24, 2006

i assume this "conversion" is just computer re-programing like the golf plus tdi's in the UK. Just to correct the pressure so the nox emissions reduce, since bioD has higher cetane the nox is increased. But the biodiesel "options" basically just re-programs the computer to change the injection to lower the nox emission.

at least from my understanding.

McBrew · Apr 24, 2006

DB, what is it about biodiesel that damages SCR systems? As I understand it, the sulfur in LSD damages the system. Bio doesn't have any more sulfur than ULSD. Can you share any info?

Of course, my Sprinter doesn't have an SCR system... and it runs fine on B100 so far. Of course, I take proper precautions in cold weather.

bhtooefr · Apr 24, 2006

Cummins allows B20 in their 5.9 CR in fleet applications only...

Dweebus · Apr 24, 2006

This will be a problem in Minnesota.

Drivbiwire said:
Biodiesel IS NOT COMPATIBLE with the upcoming SCR or Urea injection and NOx filters!!! Biodiesel contaminates the very expensive catalysts and destroys the scrubbing capability. Only Diesel #2 is approved for the BLUTEC systems.

DB

pugman · Apr 25, 2006

Drivbiwire said:
CDI = 23,500 psi fuel pressures to feed the rail.

Some mention that the pressures will be going higher in the next few years.

Biodiesel IS NOT COMPATIBLE with the upcoming SCR or Urea injection and NOx filters!!! Biodiesel contaminates the very expensive catalysts and destroys the scrubbing capability. Only Diesel #2 is approved for the BLUTEC systems.

DB

Sounds like "Big Oil" is trying to hang on to their market to me!

bioTDInBENZ · Apr 25, 2006

pugman said:
Sounds like "Big Oil" is trying to hang on to their market to me!

Yup sounds like that to me too. I doubt it will ruin anything tho, i dont even know where he is getting his info from since he is showing no links to back up his comments.

Common rail and biodiesel

Michael Pietro

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bioTDInBENZ

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DPM

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naturist

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