NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

ATR

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Baltimore
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2011 Golf TDI 6MT
I also think that part of the problem is that the HPFP's piston can rotate inside the boor of it's cylinder. This is not good since the roller on the bottom of the piston can also rotate with the piston. once it rotates too far the cam on the bottom will basically make a groove on that roller senfing tiny bits of metal throughout the fuel system...

One of many ways the pump can fail. but no amount of filtration can prevent this type of failure. Best way to mitigate the damages is to buy the 2micron pure flow kit.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=375803
 

kjclow

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Design engineers are almost never allowed to design things the way they would like. There are always compromises. Most commonly these compromises boil down to quality vs. cost. That rod in the tank is a good example. I am fairly certain that the design engineers originally specified stainless steel for that rod, but along the way in the design process it was decided that cheaper alternative materials would work. The bean counter who made this decision probably never met the design engineer or the people who designed the rest of the fuel system. The downstream effects of his change never occured to him/her. The sad part is that in the end, cutting a dollar or two off the cost of manufacturing the fuel sender unit probably earned some guy a raise or a promotion. I have seen similar processes occur over and over in my career. Sometimes they work out OK and sometimes they result in serious problems.
It might be just a lower gauge of stainless. Still reads like the design spec but saves those pennies.
 

GoFaster

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Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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2006 Jetta TDI
Oh, there is no doubt that there are weaknesses in the design (and perhaps manufacturing) of our fuel systems. This is why my car has the 2micron fuel sysem mods installed. It is also why I am glad I live in a place where moisture (in any form) is rare.

Design engineers are almost never allowed to design things the way they would like. There are always compromises. Most commonly these compromises boil down to quality vs. cost. That rod in the tank is a good example. I am fairly certain that the design engineers originally specified stainless steel for that rod, but along the way in the design process it was decided that cheaper alternative materials would work. The bean counter who made this decision probably never met the design engineer or the people who designed the rest of the fuel system. The downstream effects of his change never occured to him/her. The sad part is that in the end, cutting a dollar or two off the cost of manufacturing the fuel sender unit probably earned some guy a raise or a promotion. I have seen similar processes occur over and over in my career. Sometimes they work out OK and sometimes they result in serious problems.

Have Fun!

Don
Been there, done that.

Specifically, I got to be the engineer who told the boss that his decree to the purchasing department to always look for cheaper alternatives to what engineering had specified, was responsible for a whole bunch of warranty service calls.

'Course, I didn't know about that decree until after quizzing purchasing about why the part that was in the machine wasn't the part that engineering had specified.
 

piotrsko

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Btdt also. Both sides. How did it go for you? Mine involved a stint being a school bus driver
 

GoFaster

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2006 Jetta TDI
I'd been there long enough that I won that battle. The boss had sent me on the field expedition in the first place, "find out why these drive belts keep breaking". I knew why it was happening the second I took the cover off and saw what was in the machine (different, cheaper material from what was originally specified, but unsuitable for the environment) and when presented with hard evidence and point-blank questions, there was no way either the boss or purchasing could wiggle out of what they had done. There was a reason why engineering had specified a more expensive material with better chemical resistance.

It's near impossible to win the war against inappropriate cost reductions, though. Sometimes, as long as it doesn't affect safety, you just let the boss win his battle and find out the hard way. I hated using cheap components because you always heard for it later. I'd rather the machine shipped out the door and was never heard from again. I think most engineers would rather have it that way.
 

capt_slow

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2015 GSW TDI SEL
It's near impossible to win the war against inappropriate cost reductions, though.
The unfortunate reality is that marketing, sales, and cost cutting will trump engineering almost always. I've had cases where the former will go up the chain to force us to do something we dont want to do.

I've also been told that account managers have the ability to fire engineers or have them reassigned to another project, despite being outside the our direct management chain.

It's better at some companies compared to others, but you dont need to work in engineering long to realize this.
 

tadawson

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And that is exactly why product quality has tanked over the years! The unqualified (and greedy) have somehow managed to delude themselves into believing that the ability to do rudimentary 4-banger math and count nickels somehow qualifies them to make design decisions . . . Sales is important, but a sales-puke should have *ZERO* direct control of product design . . . providing end user feedback and feature requests is pretty much it, since sales guys are typically pathological liars to fuel thier greed, and will say anything, no matter how stupid, if they think they can make an extra 35 cents, while simultaneously destroying the product and company reputation.

Myself, I'll gladly pay more for something that works and holds up, since it's almost always cheaper in the long run. Membership in the CBS (cheap bastard society) is not necessarily something to be proud of . . .

- Tim
 
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turbovan+tdi

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Wow, that's pretty scary, 1 person doing literally all the work!
 

Second Turbo

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Too little, too late

re: Extended warranty covers 2009 - 2012 models.

But not 2013 or 2014. That won't help move any stale '14s still on the lots, unless they had a different factory warranty that makes this extension moot.

re: Doesn't take a great deal of looking through these forums to find examples of failed 2013 models, ...

And absent any statement of what engineering changes were made for '13 or '14, owners and buyers of these are left assuming just what?

In any event, the extension only reaches to 10 years or 120,000 miles, which I take to be VW's notion of the design life of these vehicles. Our ALH is already 3 years and 221,000 miles beyond those limits.

This extension also does nothing to reclaim sales lost since 2010 where people (like me) were ready to buy, and did not, due to this issue.

It makes VW looks less competent than NHTSA, if such a such a thing could be imagined.
 

JSWTDI09

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It makes VW looks less competent than NHTSA, if such a such a thing could be imagined.
Does anyone really believe that this HPFP warranty extension and the closing of the NHTSA investigation are unrelated? The NHTSA investigation centered mostly around 2009 to 2012 model years. I have no proof, but I firmly suspect that this warranty extension is part of a quietly negotiated settlement with the NHTSA to finally close the investigation for good. Now VW is off the hook for having to replace the fuel systems on many cars. We shall see what we shall see.

Have Fun!

Don
 

turbovan+tdi

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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
re: Extended warranty covers 2009 - 2012 models.

But not 2013 or 2014. That won't help move any stale '14s still on the lots, unless they had a different factory warranty that makes this extension moot.

re: Doesn't take a great deal of looking through these forums to find examples of failed 2013 models, ...

And absent any statement of what engineering changes were made for '13 or '14, owners and buyers of these are left assuming just what?

In any event, the extension only reaches to 10 years or 120,000 miles, which I take to be VW's notion of the design life of these vehicles. Our ALH is already 3 years and 221,000 miles beyond those limits.

This extension also does nothing to reclaim sales lost since 2010 where people (like me) were ready to buy, and did not, due to this issue.

It makes VW looks less competent than NHTSA, if such a such a thing could be imagined.
You pretty much summed it up. Pretty sad. I'll just run my ALH's into the ground.
 

Second Turbo

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Watch your mail box.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]re: Does anyone really believe that this HPFP warranty extension and the closing of the NHTSA investigation are unrelated?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Yes, I do. Apart from the recently revealed fact that NHTSA is more incompetent than anyone could have guessed, I would have expected any linked gesture by VW to have been announced closer to the closure of the investigation.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I think it more likely that this extended warranty is one of:[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]intended to forestall class actions[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]a chess move in an open class action[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]part of a CA settlement

Being part of a settlement would be typical for class actions. Plaintiff's lawyers get billions. The injured class members get largely symbolic relief, plus a coupon for a cap with the vendor's logo.
[/FONT]
 

Matt927

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several
It would be interesting to know what criteria dictated what years were covered. All of the published internal changes to the pump were made in 2010 I believe.
 

turbovan+tdi

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Does anyone know if Canadian owners will receive the warranty extension?
I would say no based on past experience.

It would be interesting to know what criteria dictated what years were covered. All of the published internal changes to the pump were made in 2010 I believe.
No updates were ever made.
 

Claudio

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IL
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09 Jetta SW
this is a very bad news for all of us who wanted to keep this car for long...i have a 2009 with 156K on it...was pretty confident until 2 years ago about keeping this car for a long time as i had seen cars covered with 180+ miles..but now...not anymore...as i am pretty sure VW will start denying coverage for all of those who are out of this extended warranty
 

ATR

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Location
Baltimore
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2011 Golf TDI 6MT
this is a very bad news for all of us who wanted to keep this car for long...i have a 2009 with 156K on it...was pretty confident until 2 years ago about keeping this car for a long time as i had seen cars covered with 180+ miles..but now...not anymore...as i am pretty sure VW will start denying coverage for all of those who are out of this extended warranty
2micron makes a kit to mitigate the damage from a failed HPFP.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=375803
 

PlaneCrazy

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Province of Quebec, Canada
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Gone...
this is a very bad news for all of us who wanted to keep this car for long...i have a 2009 with 156K on it...was pretty confident until 2 years ago about keeping this car for a long time as i had seen cars covered with 180+ miles..but now...not anymore...as i am pretty sure VW will start denying coverage for all of those who are out of this extended warranty
For you in the US, I agree. VW has been replacing the HPFP under goodwill well over 120k miles.

Assuming this applies to Canadians as well, it's an improvement. I had my HPFP replaced at just over 90k km (55k miles) and since that was no longer in the bumper-to-bumper warranty, coverage was initially refused. However I negotiated a 66% reimbursement from VW (worked out to 50% as I insisted on new and not remanufactured). I'm hoping we Canadians get the same letter and it offers reimbursement for repairs already paid.

What this extended "warranty" really says is that VW has no clue about what is causing the failures, so the best they can do is extend the warranty and not offer a recall (makes no sense to recall and replace with the same defective design). They are doing the same thing with the exhaust flap.

They also did this to the HPFP cam followers on the original 2.0Ts (the HPFP on that engine runs off the camshaft).

It really boils down to "the accountants figured this was the cheapest solution for VW".

I hope it doesn't affect resale value as the car approaches 120k!

My take on VW, after this, the 2.0T cam followers, the exhaust flap, and the balance shaft drive on the BHW 2.0 TDIs, is that it's risky to own a VW beyond 120k miles (193k km). Our B5.5 has well over 270k km now, and my Golf is at 135k km. I am considering either trading it next spring, or shipping it out west where we have a secondary residence and go visit often; it would save us renting a car each time we go and we plan to spend winters there in a couple of years. That way it will last long in years, if not in mileage.

The B5.5 is used infrequently by my oldest son; when it dies, it's going to be parted out or junked.
 

mr_y82

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Used to have... '11 Golf, 6-spd, 2-door
thanks, i looked into it, but unfortunately it seems that he has not been selling those for months, lot of post of people that tried to order it with no luck :(
You sure? Have you emailed him? I just got a kit a couple months ago... There may be a waiting list, but I think this is a product we will be seeing for a while... with the failure rate what it is, give i a couple decades and ALL the mk6s may either have the 2micron kits or his new (upcoming) cp3 pump upgrade... :)
 

amy1000

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Doylestown PA
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2010 jetta
this is a very bad news for all of us who wanted to keep this car for long...i have a 2009 with 156K on it...was pretty confident until 2 years ago about keeping this car for a long time as i had seen cars covered with 180+ miles..but now...not anymore...as i am pretty sure VW will start denying coverage for all of those who are out of this extended warranty
I agree Claudio. I love my 2010 tdi and was planning on keeping it forever. I already had my entire fuel system and fuel tank replace at around 60k in October 2012...after fighting with vw as they replaced only the filter (failed again), then the filter and another pump (failed yet again) and finally the whole system and tank.

Now I have 117k miles on it and this extended warranty does me no good, unless they will consider my in service date as the date they installed a brand new fuel system and tank at 60k. hmmmm...that may take me to 180k (or the year 2022). Any thoughts on getting extensions for those who have a lot of miles and who already got the system replaced?
 

turbocharged798

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Ellenville, NY
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99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
I was hoping for a proper fix and not just an extended warranty but I am kinda surprised that VW even went that far actually. Its the first time they actually admitted that the HPFP has a design flaw.

I also agree that this is bad news for long time car owners since VW isn't fixing the problem at all. Looks like my decision to buy another ALH car was a good one. Maybe someday VW will make a TDI that is robust and economical again.
 
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