www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs

VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs This is a discussion about MKIII-A3/MkIII Jetta/Golf (<99.5) and B4 Passats (96,97) TDI's. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 14th, 2019, 12:25   #31
kurtzl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Talking

It's a good point, and I was just reading the advice on dieselgeek's website to change the head o-ring before making any other changes that could further complicate troubleshooting. I'm hopeful that the head is just leaking so badly that the pump can't prime enough to get started. Don't know if that's actually possible when running off of a bottle, but it's a cheap and (relatively) easy thing to swap and test.

I suppose I'm due for a timing belt here in the next 6 months, so I think I'll replace the head seal with the pump in place and see if that gets me back up and running. If yes, then I'll monitor for leaks and consider whether to do a complete reseal when I change the TB.

On a related note, what's the consensus on the dieselgeek viton o-ring? Post #227 of the sticky thread (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...115689&page=16) suggests that the dieselgeek o-ring isn't fat enough to seal properly. I have to think though, that if this was a common problem dieselgeek would be selling a different o-ring...
kurtzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14th, 2019, 13:05   #32
kurtzl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Default

Viton seal ordered, hopefully here on Thursday.

I'll update the thread once I've installed it, but thanks again for all the input and advice!
kurtzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14th, 2019, 13:16   #33
ToddA1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ 08002
Fuel Economy: Dismal
Default

I’ve always run the standard seals. Never had an issue with them.

Let’s rule out the 109 relay. Easiest way is to install a jumper wire between the positive battery post and the stop solenoid. This backfeeds the ecu and the car will start with the 109 removed from the relay panel. Remove the jumper and the engine will stall.

Let’s rule out the cps/ess aka g28. It should read between 1-1.5 ohms, between pins 1 and 2. Since you’re seeing fuel move, I doubt this is the issue, but it’s worth checking.

-Todd
__________________
'96 B4V: Kerma tune and PP520s
'97 B4: Stock
Rabbit build
ToddA1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14th, 2019, 16:00   #34
kurtzl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Default

When you say standard seals I'm guessing you're referring to size? Or do you mean Buna vs Viton?

I'll test the cps/ess later this evening after work (and after I do my homework to figure out what/where that is). For the 109 relay, I'll wait to test that until I've replaced the head o-ring.

This is all incredibly helpful - really appreciate it!
kurtzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14th, 2019, 16:38   #35
ToddA1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ 08002
Fuel Economy: Dismal
Default

Whatever comes in the Bosch kit is standard.

I’d go over the IP harness. Abacus always seems to have issues with broken or chafed wires.

-Todd
__________________
'96 B4V: Kerma tune and PP520s
'97 B4: Stock
Rabbit build
ToddA1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14th, 2019, 23:16   #36
kurtzl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Default

CPS/ESS did not get checked this evening - looks like that's going to be a bit of a pain to access. I've got a couple friends coming by tomorrow to help me push the car back into the garage - once it's back on level ground I'll be more inclined to tackle it. I'll have to look in the morning, but is it really impossible to remove the ESS without removing the engine mount?

Good suggestion to check the IP harness - I'll take a look at that too.
kurtzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2019, 07:59   #37
ToddA1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ 08002
Fuel Economy: Dismal
Default

Resistance is measured at the plug. It’s easily accessible.

The 109 test is a 1 minute affair.

Personally, I like to get things checked off, rather than adding variables to the issue.

-Todd
__________________
'96 B4V: Kerma tune and PP520s
'97 B4: Stock
Rabbit build
ToddA1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2019, 09:03   #38
kurtzl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Default

That's good news - I was afraid I would have to do some heavy lifting just to access the plug.

I may be missing something, but unless the engine starts I don't think I'll have any conclusive evidence for relay 109. If it doesn't, then I still don't know if 109 is good or bad because the head seal might be preventing the engine from starting. Putting a jumper on the solenoid is an easy thing to try, but since the car is sitting outside I've been closing things up every night - I'd have to re-rig the fuel bottle etc.

Speaking of which, is there any reason I need to bypass the filter and go straight back to the tank when I have the fuel bottle rigged up? I understand it's to avoid making a mess with diesel, but couldn't I just plug the filter output? Or would the lack of a complete loop fill up the filter, pop the plug out and make an even bigger mess?
kurtzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2019, 10:57   #39
KLXD
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lompoc, CA
Default

The thermo-tee recirculates fuel until some temp is reached. If you plug that port to the pump and it wants to recirc you might have the problem you postulate.

Could run from the tee back you your bottle but I like the idea of running the return line from the pump to the bottle. Then you have a closed loop.

Remember that the pump body is pressurized by the internal lift pump so it should run with the head seal leaking unless it is really leaking badly.

Since you only seem to be planning to change the head seal that would negate the concern I brought up about the QA position adding a variable.
__________________
Saying no to gas for 25 years:

Current: 02 Jetta, Auto; 98 Jetta, 5 Spd; 98 Dodge, 5 Spd, SB, 4x4; 84 Grand Wagoneer with Nissan SD33T, NV4500, Dana 300, Reverse Cut Dana 44, Dana 60

The Black Sheep (Only gasser): 85 CJ, 4.2 w/4.0 Head and Mopar FI.

Past: 85 Mitsubishi PU, 4D55T; 81 Rabbit, 1.6; 80 Dasher, 1.5; 79 Rabbit, 1.5
KLXD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2019, 13:27   #40
kurtzl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Default

Thermo-tee...I'm regularly reminded of how much I have yet to learn

Thanks for the explanation - I'll refrain from plugging the filter port but I'll continue to run the return back to the tank, at least for now. I've got clean diesel in the bottle and I don't want to modify the bottle now and risk getting plastic bits into fuel that's bypassing the filter.
kurtzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2019, 16:28   #41
KLXD
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lompoc, CA
Default

Could just run the line from the tee to another bottle of fuel.
__________________
Saying no to gas for 25 years:

Current: 02 Jetta, Auto; 98 Jetta, 5 Spd; 98 Dodge, 5 Spd, SB, 4x4; 84 Grand Wagoneer with Nissan SD33T, NV4500, Dana 300, Reverse Cut Dana 44, Dana 60

The Black Sheep (Only gasser): 85 CJ, 4.2 w/4.0 Head and Mopar FI.

Past: 85 Mitsubishi PU, 4D55T; 81 Rabbit, 1.6; 80 Dasher, 1.5; 79 Rabbit, 1.5
KLXD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 15th, 2019, 18:29   #42
Mongler98
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northern MD
Fuel Economy: Race: 12mpg, Gandma:65mpg
Default

there are 2 grounds, one on the round harness next to the coolant glow plugs and another at the 3rd injector harness, if those are not grounded, the car WILL NOT START. check them
Mongler98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2019, 08:58   #43
kurtzl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLXD View Post
Could just run the line from the tee to another bottle of fuel.
That's a good idea - might be the best option. I'd rather leave that 21 year old thermo-tee alone as much as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
there are 2 grounds, one on the round harness next to the coolant glow plugs and another at the 3rd injector harness, if those are not grounded, the car WILL NOT START. check them
Thanks - I'll check those when I check the ESS.

Turns out the hill is too steep for 3 people, so the car remains outside. And it was raining all yesterday evening so I didn't get a chance to check grounds or the ESS. Forecast doesn't look good for today either, so I may not be able to work on it before Friday. Fingers crossed...
kurtzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2019, 10:24   #44
Steve Addy
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Iowa
TDI(s): 97 Mk3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtzl View Post
That's a good idea - might be the best option. I'd rather leave that 21 year old thermo-tee alone as much as possible.
Unfortunately the T can become leaky over time just because. There's also conversation from the past about whether the stupid thing actually works. I completely eliminated mine and went back to the Mk2 filters that don't have a thermo coupling.

The T requires that the o-ring supplied with the filter is in good order and not some old stock worn out product. I've received filters in the past that have 1) missing o-ring or 2) cracked and badly stretched o-rings.

It's worth verifying that the T isn't contributing to your full issues, after all, you have to pull it off to replace the filter anyway, just make sure that the hose connections to that T are not dried out and allowing air to enter the system. There's only so many places where the air can get in on these things.

Steve
__________________
97 Jetta TDI, 90 B3V TDI, 92 MB 300SD

the magic triangle spins in the peanut and then apex seals come out
Steve Addy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2019, 20:47   #45
kurtzl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Addy View Post
I completely eliminated mine and went back to the Mk2 filters that don't have a thermo coupling.
I didn't know the older filters don't have the T. Any discernible difference in power or fuel economy?

No luck with the weather today, hopefully I'll be able to get the seal done tomorrow.
kurtzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
air in the fuel system? CarpeDiesel VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 9 October 17th, 2016 22:08
Air in fuel system after fuel filter change question? Rodlucci VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 17 September 2nd, 2013 18:02
Air in fuel system Bob Hasewinkle TDI 101 12 September 29th, 2009 13:33
Mk3 AHU + GTA2056V what should I do with the fuel system 12MPGHWY TDI Power Enhancements 0 August 21st, 2009 13:11
air in fuel system mmmkay TDI 101 7 January 1st, 2008 14:19


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.14756 seconds with 13 queries
[Output: 126.52 Kb. compressed to 106.11 Kb. by saving 20.41 Kb. (16.13%)]