need more heat (in motor).

iluvmydiesels

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Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
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AHU
since i ve got my mk3 back running, i ve had lack of heat, both normal max heat in engine, and a slow warm-up. in the cooler weather the warm-up is slower. it takes a while just to get heat in motor, and its not really that cold out yet. over the summer (i had posted) i put a new thermostat in. 87dg C. in the warmer weather temp got to near 170dg. on dash gauge, mine normally seems to work fine. now in above freezing temps the gauge is low. about 160dg.
so i have a change out of coolant hoses scheduled, hopefully i can get to it this week. i have a 90dg C thermostat im going to stick in, at the same time. the only other thing i can really do is run my hose and let water run thru-open system. i figure its related to 'cheaper' head i ended up putting in. i donno i bought head for $1300, some generic valves i ended up with, era brand.?pos by me, im kind of upset i got head in the 1st place. plan to assemble a stock head with trw valves and parts in the near future. may keep cam? good idea?
im not really expecting too faster warm-ups, but it would be a big-+.

i had some other issue, oh yea i good question, cause i, like i have made known, blocked off my egr, is there a specialist that can program/tune ECM for this? my main problem, along with an annoying cel, is my turbo speed, and thereby intake pressure is ---noticeably more.

is there info on doing some of your own port(head) work? i hav-ta look. i have a ger head, gonna send to the shop, machine seats, and set-up for better results. <than what i put on, now.
and then i still have to try to get the vent doors patch-up done. i had stripped the lower dash to the knee bar, metal piece in there. i wasnt sure at looking i can get it out, as it goes fully just about the width of the dash, and dash hangs over where center console piece attaches. going to try, this week, next week. get that fixed up.
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
1st off. dont ever put normal tap water into the system. EVER>
Watch thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s--5ft5YiHg

1st step is to make sure your coolant system is in good shape like in this video.
EGR does help with heat but not durring running, only starting
the oil heater is what does the majority of the head exchange.

My tdi and everyone elses never gets up to temp in the winter unless your going up hill or on a highway.
A good way to help this is to get a plastic bandit road sign and slip it in front of the radiator in the winter and use pipe wrap insulation on the front grille and bumper. There is a post here about that.

You spent 1300 on a head? ive spent $500 on mine with lots of head work.
You can port and polish yourself with about $75-$100 in tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iejDWSQEsqI
 

iluvmydiesels

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Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
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AHU
pretty good video,advice. my system doesnt seem to have any contaminants, been running the same, new coolant for most of the year, no discoloration. just low/slow heat. gonna drain and filter, reuse coolant i have. i just didnt like the idea of flushing his system, in video, and having removed thermo, like he did. it ll give more water flow, but i feel system and esp the heater core will clean/flush much better in a normal, hot system. i dont really put as much faith in a cool flush, and the weather for him was cold. even in warm temps w/o a thermo a motor can have trouble heating up. also needed a gasket when he took apart the water connection. and some anti-seize, for those bolts!. would look better :).
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
You don’t need to pull the t-stat as he stated in the video, it just speeds it up. If your coolant is in good shape, don’t bother.
You need to get a REAL gauge for your coolant. Scangauge II is good and will tell you EVERYTING that the ECU gets. The gauge on your car is a general gauge. VW did not put in an accurate gauge on TDI's because they would be fluctuating so much people would panic. It’s in the middle if the temp is warm or too hot. It only moves past the middle if it’s overheating. You can change this somehow I have heard but I like to have REAL gauges, Auber is the best there is bar none. You need accurate data before going down this road.

Another thought is that your blend door is probably shot to hell. VW use this foam that turns to dust to seal things. Your blend door has holes in it and when the foam goes away its basically useless. Does your air temp improve when you put it on Recirculate?

I would bet your issue is not with the cooling system but rather your cars HVAC duct system. A dashectomy would be in order. When you’re in there, replace the heater core with ALL ALUMINUM one and you’re going to have to fudge it to get it in I hear. They are better than the plastic cores. Replace the fan motor with OE and get some really good HVAC Duct flashing tape and seal everything up and you can use a weather seal strip on the blend door area to make a nice seal.
 

iluvmydiesels

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Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
im well and aware of vw putting out all types of cars for a very long time that need the vent/blend doors patched. i have one planned, i ve done it one MK2s, a couple. its just the mk3s are more complex to get to and the vent box doesnt just open right near your lap, and you can lean over with a light and get to both. i have contributions to the vent fix sticky.
its not that. i can understand your gauge trusts. all the VWs i ve had all my gauges have been "accurate", steady in the center all but one and this one. the other one i know what happened. it now runs like that, if i put her back on the road. this one i cannt see any other reason, off the top, why its cool. as i got it running again, all summer, and now its some cooler, 160 on the gauge is low. it, before, was always in the middle, that was sometime -, and work-ago.
going to find a water pump and take a look at the one in there. gotta find a metal one, a lot of plastic ones are turning up. :thumbsdown:.
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
So does IDParts.com and CascadeGerman.com.

I like the Geba one over the Graf personally.

Geba on the left, Graf on the right.



And I installed a 95 degree thermostat (203 degree F) in W386's wagon with great results. It usually runs about 10 degrees higher than other TDI's I work on with no ill effects.
 

iluvmydiesels

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Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
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AHU
thanks for the help guys. as it is PP assured me theirs is a 'metal' pump. and still a good price. the thermo i was able to get is 90dg C, so its close to what should work. have to see if i can get to it, before the weather stays cold. pc happens to be down, so i dont have vcds, so pulling belt off wont happen until,,,. oh well its the breaks sometimes.

one question i had from the first post. my egr block off, and seeming to have more turbo. is it going to need an adjustment. ecm tune? who-where can i get someone?
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
And I installed a 95 degree thermostat (203 degree F) in W386's wagon with great results. It usually runs about 10 degrees higher than other TDI's I work on with no ill effects.
Mark, how long has he been running that stat? Do you have a part number?


one question i had from the first post. my egr block off, and seeming to have more turbo. is it going to need an adjustment. ecm tune? who-where can i get someone?
Any tuner should be able to do an EGR delete, but I’d personally keep the EGR and get a tune with Dynamic EGR. I believe this was a Malone feature, unless others are now doing it.

-Todd
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
I looked up that part number and I’m guessing it’s a Napa part... THM238.

The info I’m seeing online says 195°. Interchange numbers include 33209, 13379 and they also show 195°.

I checked out a Stant 45379, I had on the shelf and it states 195/90°. I’m wondering if there’s some type of deadband built into these things.

Does your dad’s temperature gauge read differently than yours? I noticed a difference in gauge reading when I went from the stock 87° to the 90° 43579. I wouldn’t mind a few extra degrees, in free heat.

-Todd
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
The gauge on the cluster reads normally, but we both have Scangauges, which read real time temperature. It's odd to get into his car after driving mine for so long and see his a consistent 10 degrees higher than mine. I initially think there is a problem but then remember which car I'm driving. I did not see any appreciable benefits to the higher thermostat though, no mileage increase or anything like that. But, there also have been no detriments to it either.
 

iluvmydiesels

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Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
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AHU
so an update. i had got my car back on the road, had a problem with the air-bag light being on, the one shop wouldnt inspect, the other was nice enough to charge me and inspect any way, light wouldnt turn off. this is after finding a electronic place and getting a number of 1ohm resistors and trying them.
so i had the car going, what i had did was, i replaced just about everything, the water pump someone else put in, as it turned out was plastic, so i put in a metal one, and swapped out all the hoses, except the top rad hose, with the sensor. the lower rad hose was a real pain, as if the other two going to the WP werent, not like the lower tho. and a 90dg or 92dg thermo. so my temps looked better at about 170dg. well it turns out after a few miles i developed a leak, looks like it was coming from the thermo flange, which wasnt old, but i re-used. so i had ran a few days filling up on water. so i got the parts and decided to do the work. got a (hopefully)better flange, a couple of o-rings, and VW coolant. put the new flange in, and while i went inside my house, right after the work, and the car was idling for a few minutes, i came out and gave it a look, well there was a pool of red coolant, this time it looked under the water pump, maybe a few drips. so i was like f*k-it, thats the problem, the new, metal water pump the shaft,seal may have been defective. idk, so the next day i took out, thinking i was dripping water all the way, as it turns out, and for right now i may be ok, cause it burped, to i topped off, seems to hold pressure, and coolant. wheew, only problem, now my temps dont get above 160dg, a little lower now, i liked 170 ok, 160 not as much. anyways i dont want to have to drop the water(again) and take a look at like the thermo to have to put back together (again).
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
so an update. i had got my car back on the road, had a problem with the air-bag light being on, the one shop wouldnt inspect, the other was nice enough to charge me and inspect any way, light wouldnt turn off. this is after finding a electronic place and getting a number of 1ohm resistors and trying them.
so i had the car going, what i had did was, i replaced just about everything, the water pump someone else put in, as it turned out was plastic, so i put in a metal one, and swapped out all the hoses, except the top rad hose, with the sensor. the lower rad hose was a real pain, as if the other two going to the WP werent, not like the lower tho. and a 90dg or 92dg thermo. so my temps looked better at about 170dg. well it turns out after a few miles i developed a leak, looks like it was coming from the thermo flange, which wasnt old, but i re-used. so i had ran a few days filling up on water. so i got the parts and decided to do the work. got a (hopefully)better flange, a couple of o-rings, and VW coolant. put the new flange in, and while i went inside my house, right after the work, and the car was idling for a few minutes, i came out and gave it a look, well there was a pool of red coolant, this time it looked under the water pump, maybe a few drips. so i was like f*k-it, thats the problem, the new, metal water pump the shaft,seal may have been defective. idk, so the next day i took out, thinking i was dripping water all the way, as it turns out, and for right now i may be ok, cause it burped, to i topped off, seems to hold pressure, and coolant. wheew, only problem, now my temps dont get above 160dg, a little lower now, i liked 170 ok, 160 not as much. anyways i dont want to have to drop the water(again) and take a look at like the thermo to have to put back together (again).
It's really hard to follow your posts when you do one huge block of text. If you break it up into paragraphs it would be a lot easier to follow.

At any rate, are you saying that if you run your car down the road now, in summer, for say 30 miles, that the temp isn't getting up to 188 / 190 (assuming you have factory 87C Tstat installed)?

You mentioned 90/92 Tstat but is that what you're running now? If so and your car only gets to 170 then you have an issue somewhere with something.

I run the OE installed Tstat, I think it's 87C stat and after maybe 10 minutes I'm at 188/190 on the freeway. Even sooner if I get the AC going immediately.

I would like to be at 195 but that would require another Tstat change and I'm not going to be doing that right now. In the future perhaps I will do that but only if I have a reason to open the system.

Steve
 

iluvmydiesels

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Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
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AHU
sorry for the long run-on thought, was one topic, some of it i had done a few weeks ago, the other day i fixed it like it is now. see and thats the thing. so i went to the napa store, asked for a 92dg C thermo, its been superseded to a 90dg C thermo, so thats what im using.
see i dont know, as its been running cool for a while. right now as i replaced everything water, more or less, it was running 170, i was fine with that. but after the little amount of work i did the other day, its now running a cool 160. i realizing that i was @170 and now @160, some problem. some time ago the original head went, somehow it melted a valve, and 2 of the pistons went with it. so the head i got as replacement may be the obvious problem. for 1 i had a post a few months ago, that i needed info to know the difference betw. a 1.6na camshaft and a similar 1.9ahu cam, as i have 3 or 4 unmarked in a box. still good, at least some of them are, i know. because as it turns out the guy who sold me the head, seems it was a cheaper head, and set up, as the valves turn out to be an unknown brand, china?? they are marked 'era' dont know which pos brand they are, anyways i have plans in the future, however i ve visualized my cam, has some pitting, caused by, must be a cheapie, and the lifters, under not abnormal operation, and not a lot of miles, i can see copper coming thru them, want to swap-in a german cam, and good lifters.
after this i just may trash the other parts of the head, and build a german head, w/ trw valves. plan to before i end up having another problem, like losing a lifter or more, and the like.
 

Stromaluski

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Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
'67 Deluxe Bus, '80 Rabbit Truck, '92 Corrado, '10 Cup Edition
Are you looking at the temp on the temp gauge in the cluster? Have you validated that the gauge reads correctly?


If you're going off of not having hot heat in the winter and seeing the gauge read low, it could be a combination of having a bad ground or temp sensor making the gauge read low and not having much foam left on the flaps in the heater box?
 

iluvmydiesels

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Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
1st id like ti thank steve and strom-- for their recent contributions, to this post.
anyways, strom--, i could get an IR reader and use to check water temps, not a bad idea. still, i have no other reason to think the reading is off, however verifying it would be good. no other electric problems, no other sensor problems, or discontinuities, no ecm problems, no other electric problems, no seeming ground problems, all other gauges and lights on the dash appear to work properly.

yes the foam in the vent box wants a al taping up, it wont effect the temp gauge reading im sure. i ve done a pair of ole mk2 vent boxes, they werent hard, the vent has a 'front' cover, once you can pop that off and slip clear on the inside part of the dash, the whole inside of the vent box becomes available. looking at the mk3 vent set-up its a different adventure as you have to split the box, i ve been putting it off from before last winter. i ll get to it, hopefully, before it gets cold again.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
I monitor my water temperature via the scangaugeII, it's a more accurate indicator of water temp than the gauge.

I doubt that an IR temp gun is going to give a very accurate measure, I used to use one on my wood stove and the variability was pretty significant. The result would vary depending on where you point the thing and as we all know, a tdi sitting at idle will often not maintain temperature, especially in the fall and winter.

Get someone with vag-com to read monitor engine after 30 min of operation, will give you the best result I think.

Steve
 

iluvmydiesels

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Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
yea i have vag-com, dont happen to have it with me right now. however a few months ago i took a look at different 'screens' the cool temps i was getting back then was accurate, i will have to double check when i get the chance, under the assumption the current gauge is reading the temp. its just the other day, before i did the work to stop the little,constant leak, i was getting a better, an ok reading 170C, now i dont happen to like a reading of 160, thats in warm weather, i cannt wait for it to get cold and not even warm up this much.
 
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