1Z/AHU into 78 Bus

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
You'll be fine to do that drive Mark. The ECU will compensate and reduce fueling with IAT's that high. IAT going above 130 forces the ecu to reduce fueling/ or timing to keep nox down. It's really just efficiency that's loss, not overheating.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
You'll be fine to do that drive Mark. The ECU will compensate and reduce fueling with IAT's that high. IAT going above 130 forces the ecu to reduce fueling/ or timing to keep nox down. It's really just efficiency that's loss, not overheating.
Thanks Jeremy. Is there a max IAT where the computer can't adjust?

I have my timing top of the graph combined with an abnormally high IAT - how far can adapation go?

Mark
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
you aren't touching timing in the adaptation tab of vag com are ya? Don't think you are supposed to touch that (if ever).

Unless you're talking about IP timing which is ok.

I wouldn't bring it much higher... I like it right below the top line.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
No, I'm just talking about when I set the timing after the timing belt. I set it at the top of the graph.

I know the computer can still adjust the timing, but it does so in a higher range. I was thinking that with my timing set in range, but high and my IATs being unheard of high, that maybe even with the computer backing out all the timing it can, that I might still be looking for trouble?
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Latest good news...

Oil leak seems to be fixed (oil pan gasket).

Engine vibrations seem to have got better from the mounts breaking-in or maybe I'm just getting used to it.

I had the exhaust re-done to incorporate a muffler and fix some clearance issues. It's just a glasspack, but it's made the sound more civilized :)

New software is on the way to me from Mark Malone. I'm getting Stage 2 with Dynamic EGR to help warm-ups.

One issue: IAT's are too high. I see 140F regularly and got 170F with sustained 10psi of boost. I'm running the Saab Blackstone IC with a fan.

Yesterday we cut a hole in the floor of the battery tray and plan to put the stock Passat IC there with a fan blowing down. The idea being that the low pressure area outside the bus should help pull air through.

I'm also going to wrap the exhaust with header wrap to reduce radiant heat that's pretty close to my intake tubes.

The stock Passat IC that I have might be leaky (I see an area where it looks like oil has been pushed out of the cooler) so I may be in the market for a new one.

Mark
 

markd89

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Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
The GTG - Jeremy thanks for organizing. I wanted to go but that 10 has been suck all day. It's still sh*t now at 6pm#&$!@%

The good news is that by the time I do get to a GTG my bus will be completely done.

What's next...

1. I have an oil leak in the vicinity of the oil cooler. The good news here is that justifies an upgrade. I want to stick OEM/New parts on this since it's a critical piece. I know I need a cooler, seal and the center pipe which needs to be longer than stock. I found one source who I've had a good experience with before, but open to suggestions as it's a spendy part.

2. Intercooler. My new setup is going to use the stock Passat intercooler mounted flat rather than the Saab Blackstone cooler mounted vertically. I took a pic of my Passat Intercooler and it looks like the end seal on one side is bad. Here's a pic which shows where it's oily/dirty on the left side. What do you think? Is an ALH cooler the same part?

Thanks!
Mark


x
 

markd89

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Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Bus Porn 1

It's time for pics!!

We're stealth.

The ground clearance at the rear is probably greater than stock. I credit this partly because my engine support bar (mount) runs behind the engine, not under the oil pan.




You can't see the radiators from the side unless you look at the bus from 30 feet away. You'll also see that the radiators are tucked up in there pretty well. We're not losing that much ground clearance. In the summer I plan to retest on a hot day. If I can raise the radiators higher and still cool well, I'm going to do that.



Here's an engine compartment shot. We did not have to cut the engine hatch or the rear valence as some have done. We did do a little trimming of the sheet metal behind the engine (near where the engine joins the trans), but this clearancing may not have been needed.



More pics coming up...
 

markd89

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Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
TDI Bus Porn 2

Here we are looking in to the left of the engine compartment.

The tube which feeds into the turbo intake had to be slightly shortened to give us a little vertical clearance.

You can see that tube, the 2.75" 90* silicone bend which connects it to the MAF. From the MAF we have a 2.5" to 3" reducer which connects to a 135* aluminum tube.




Here again on the left side, we see the space we've got by not having the wide flat-4 engine. We can see the radiators and the subtle slant.



Here's a view of my slant mounted Saab Blackstone intercooler. A 1.5x45* silicone bend comes out of the turbo and goes into a stainless 1.5" to 2" reducer (vacuum cleaner part) this connects to the IC by 2" to 2.25" 90* bending reducer.

The output of the IC is a 2.25 to 2" 45* bending reducer. That feeds into an S-shaped aluminum tube.

The IC inlet/outlet were larger than 2.25" and smaller than 2.5". The silicone was a tight fit!

On the IC we have a Derale 7" fan in pull configuration. It's supposed to move 400 CFM. This IC setup wasn't doing very well (see older posts). Now with the hole cut, it's working better. Future posts will tell if we end up going to another IC setup.

The IC fan is triggered by a relay connected to the alternator warning light. This means the fan only runs when the engine runs, which is nicer than running it off the ignition.



Below, we can see the continuation of the IC piping. Once the air leaves the S tube, it goes into the stock Passat tube which includes the boost nipple and IAT sensor. From there we have a 2" silicone 90* to take us to the stock intake manifold.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Here on the right side, we can see the air filter. The blue tube is 3" long and from Pep Boys. It connects to a 3" aluminum tube. The other side of the 3" aluminum tube is a very fancy air filter. Volant 61511 PowerCore.

You also see my PCV filter made from an agricultural filter as you can find described in other threads here.



That's it for now. I figured I'd be productive when I was missing the GTG..
 

Diesel Mania_26

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
Acton, Ontario
TDI
03 Golf, 03 Jetta Wagon, 75 Westy (undergoing TDI conversion)
Hey Mark,

where did you get your transmission work done? and what gearing did you go with?

Looks real good!!! hopefully mine will be in that state within the next year... lol

cheers.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Hey Mark,
where did you get your transmission work done? and what gearing did you go with?
Looks real good!!! hopefully mine will be in that state within the next year... lol
cheers.
I used Transaxle Engineering. They did a good job, but spendy. Another I had considered was AA Transaxle in Washington, I think. This would have meant shipping but think I would have saved some $. I think if I had to do it again, I would buy one outright and pay the core charge...

I went with .70 4th and 1.18 3rd. If I had to do it over again, I would get a 1.08 3rd. 1.18 is only 7% steeper than stock. That was a mistake.

I recently installed 16" wheels with 28" tires to give 10% more gearing. This is pretty nice. It really helps with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. 4th should be OK but I need to drive more freeway to confirm there's no issues.

You should think about tires and work those into your gearing plans.

Start a thread on your build!
 

Diesel Mania_26

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
Acton, Ontario
TDI
03 Golf, 03 Jetta Wagon, 75 Westy (undergoing TDI conversion)
Yeah I spoke with them. they were quite helpful - I may end up using them as well.

Rancho transaxle has some options as well - but I believe the pricing was a little more.

I have 17" wheels on the bus right now. not sure what the overall rubber would give for diameter.... I dont think its quite 28" but its close.

I will be starting a build thread shortly. just have to find some spare time... Im still trying to finish some last few things to be functional in my shop.

can you take a picture of your bus with the 28" wheels for appearance?

cheers.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I have 17" wheels on the bus right now. not sure what the overall rubber would give for diameter.... I dont think its quite 28" but its close.
Right now I'm running the 16" wheels on the rear with 28" tires and the stock wheels on the front (14" with 25.5" tires). This looks goofy. It's temporary.

Here's the side of the bus including wheels:



Here's just the rear wheel..

 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I re-did the IC setup yesterday. The new setup benefits from:

1. Venting to the outside.
2. Vaccum under the bus should help pull more air through.
3. Less piping near the exhaust which should mean lower temps.
4. I was able to use a slightly larger fan (from siliconeintakes.com). This fan should push more air and is pleasantly quieter than the Derale 7" fan I had on the old setup.

I had avoided this initially because I didn't want to cut a hole in the battery tray.

The new setup uses the stock 1Z intercooler, which I cleaned thoroughly before using. (This is a bigger job than it sounds ;-)

Initial impressions are very good, I seem about 20* or more lower than I was before. The real test is a sustained hill at boost. I was seeing over 170* in that situation before. I've been told on the Vanagon TDI group that 140* is somewhat normal.

If temps are still too high, I am going to enclose the IC so that air from the vent creates some pressure to move more air, also the enclosure will keep engine heat further away. For now, I'm going to run it as it is.

So, from the turbo we have a 90* 1.5" to 2" reducer, going to a 2" 45* aluminum tube going to a 90* 2" elbow which takes us into the IC.



Here's the IC itself showing the entrance from the turbo and the exit at the wheelwell. The exit is also a 90* 2" elbow.




Here's where the output of the IC connects to the tube leading to the intake. There's the 90* elbow coming out of the IC, a short 5" tube and another 90* elbow. From there, we're into the stock tube which holds the boost nipple and the IAT sensor.



Not shown, but somewhere in this thread is the last part of the intake which is easy. At the top of the plastic IAT/boost tube is a 90* 2" elbow connecting to the stock intake manifold.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
TDC Thoughts

For those contemplating doing the same swap, and paranoid (as I am) about proper TDC when doing a timing belt, here's some ideas:

1. Make sure the adapter plate you get from Kennedy has the timing hole (shown in the top right of the picture). Mine did not. The picture is of someone elses plate. There is a marking on the flywheel which should line up.



2. Turn the engine to TDC before removing from the donor car (use the flywheel if you can). Mark the harmonic balancer and crankshaft gear in some way so that you can find TDC again. Lock the crank gear so you can do #3.

3. Once the new flywheel and adapter plate are mated, check the Kennedy mark. If Kennedy sent you a plate without a hole, you can drill one and make your own marking. Since you're already at TDC because of #2, you'll know you're getting a good mark.

4. If you can't find a flywheel TDC mark, or you didn't do 1-3 like me, here's help:

a. Find TDC using an aluminum rod in the #1 injector hole or glow plug hole. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=206313

b. Find TDC from markings on the front of the engine which should already be there. I have not looked to find these yet, but am assured by reliable sources they're there. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=338632
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
That is going to depend on the hill, the hp/torque and the gearing you end up with. To get the mileage you want i.e. 30 mpg, you will need to gear tall. When you gear tall, you may be too tall for long uphill grinds even on the interstate. It that case, you will need to use 3rd gear and I don't believe the math will let you run 75mph in 3rd. For numbers to crunch. Stock max torque is around 2200 rpm, max hp around 3800rpm. You can upgrade the power, but may affect mileage and reliability. Should be a nice ride even if you don't hit your targets. My vanagon with a 4.14 ring and pinion and a taller .77 4th gear runs about 2900 rpm at 70mph. Good luck and post lots of pictures.
So quoting back rxsr from the beginning of the thread. I have data to share :D

I just tanked up after 380 miles of 50-50 highway/city driving. It took 12 gallons, so I'm a little over 30 MPG.

I have been able to run up a big hill at 75 MPH. The EGTs have been OK.

I'm running 28" rear tires and a 0.7 4th gear. I can cruise on the freeway at 2500 RPMs or go fast at 3000 RPMs. Anything more than that is just too hairy.

Mark Malone did his magic on the software -- running Stage 2 with dynamic EGR. I'm using Bosio PP1019 nozzles which are a little smaller than the PP764 which where not available at the time I bought.

What's next:

1. I'm putting on new front wheels/tires. It looks a little funny with 16" rear wheels and 14" front ones. The front tires are 205/65/16 from Van Cafe. These will give about a 1/2" lift and help to level out the bus. They're Nokian Hakka C tires which have plenty of load rating. I'll post some pics when that's done.

2. Fixing oil pressure. I think it's just the gauge. I have a thread in TDI 101 discussing it. I'll know more tomorrow.

3. B2. A good friend gave me 5 gallons of home made B100. He's meticulous on measuring and checking, so it's good quality. I'm mixing in about a quart to each 12 gallon tankful which will give me a mix equivalent to B2.

Mark
 
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markward

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
Sounds about right. I still have the stock tune, but slightly larger nozzles only after realizing I was geared too tall for a stock tune. My ECU requires removing the soldered chip from the board. I am hesitant to have anyone do that to my reliable ECU. We go pretty far and off the beaten path to have a problem with the ECU. Perhaps if I come across a used ECU that I know is good, I can have that one tuned, but have the original as a spare backup.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Minor updates:

I'm looking forward to a revised tune from Mark Malone. The new tune will fix a little unwanted smoke when accelerating and also bump the idle up to 975 RPM.

Why increase the idle? Stock idle is 903 RPMs. With VCDS you can adjust the idle about +/- 25 RPM only. Vibration is FAR less with a higher idle. I've already broken my exhaust twice! With a 975 RPM from Malone, I should be able to adjust 950-1000 RPMs with VCDS.
 

Diesel Mania_26

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
Acton, Ontario
TDI
03 Golf, 03 Jetta Wagon, 75 Westy (undergoing TDI conversion)
Thx Mark!
As mentioned I will be starting the swap shortly and I was wondering if you had any suggestions in terms of wiring that you came across to keep in mind?

My initial thought was to pull the engine and mount it basically on an engine stand and pull the wiring and determine what exactly I need to keep and what I dont... get it running remotely out of the car then install the electronics required...
In terms of your DBW it looks as though you didnt use the stock parts in the car?
 
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markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I used the stock accelerator potentiometer. The 1Z wiring is (relatively) simple and many have done it themselves -- ask here in the forum and you'll get more info.

I paid to have a plug-n-play wiring harness made for me. This was made from the wiring harness pulled from the Passat. At the time, I was working a lot and it made more sense to have it done than spend a week working on it.

There's two people who do wiring specifically for a bus/vanagon application if you want to hire it out. I'd suggest being very specific with what you want and the delivery date to avoid any midunderstandings. I'd suggest talking to both via phone and see which one seems like a better fit for you if you go that way. Mine ended up working "pretty well" but was not perfect -- one of the oil pressure signals wasn't present and my OBD2 is not powered when the engine is off. Minor, but not perfect. YMMV.

David Marshall at www.fastforward.ca
Justin at www.greaseworks.org

As far as what to pull off the car, you need the ECU, wiring in the engine bay, wiring to the accelerator, brake and clutch areas. I also pulled the fuse box, but that was not needed for how my harness was built.

Once you've separated the wiring in the engine bay from the engine and traced wires back into the car, it's pretty easy to see what wires are going elsewhere into the dash to do other things. Better to pull more than less ;-)

Mark
 
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markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
More on DBW:

I used a microswitch for the clutch pedal. I'll try to find a pic.

For the brake pedal, I used the master cylinder to trip a relay. The MC has two switches on it for redundancy, so there's a free one there as long as you're OK losing that redundancy.

The MC is used to switch a DPDT relay. The relay is needed because there are two signals needed by the computer - there is a brake light signal and a brake pedal signal. They need different things simultaneously. The brake light switch gets +12V when the brake is pushed and GND when it is not pushed. The Brake Pedal switch is open when the brake is pushed and GND when brake is not pushed.

For the cruise control on-off, resume, CEL, GLO, etc. I made custom switches and lights. It's probably possible to graft on a cruise contol stalk and do it that way which would be better.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Minor updates:

Oil supply line for turbo:

The oil supply for the turbo is a hard line which reaches behind (i.e. flywheel side of engine) and connects to the oil filter housing. In the stock configuration, the hard line is supported by an attachment to the rear (flywheel side) of the engine. However, we had to bend the line to get clearance and could not use that attachment.

I know from people on the Vanagon coversion forum http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/TDI-conversion/ that without the support attached, the oil line will eventually fatigue and break, leaving you without a turbo and possibly worse.

The solution is a braided line. I ordered one from Matt Whitbread and it should be here in a couple of days. Other reputable sources: Franko6 and Kerma.

Updated Software:

Mark Malone sent me updated software. He took out a little fueling which has reduced smoke to an acceptable level. I would sometimes apply a smokescreen to the car behind when accelerating in second gear. It still smokes a little, but it's acceptable now. I'm running an IQ of about 7.2 on the DLC1019 nozzles from Kerma.

Also in the tune is a new idle -- 975 RPMs. This makes a BIG difference in vibration and I'd highly recommend it. VCDS lets you adjust the idle in adaptation +/- 25 RPMS. I've found the 975 to be a good spot.
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Ugh, the Kennedy Stage 2 Pressure plate has been an ongoing source of frustration. My left leg can handle the extra push, but the cable, linkage, etc. is strained.

It's taken frequent readjustments and some creativity to give me enough travel on the clutch arm to disengage the clutch while still allowing the throwout bearing to be disengaged when the clutch is not pushed.

If I had a hydraulic setup, this would probably be a non-issue.

I'm running a slightly detuned Malone Stage 2 Tune. Malone Stage 2 is rated at 228 lb/feet of torque, so I should be seeing a little less than that.

Kennedy's Stage 2 Pressure Plate is rated for 273 lb/feet which is more than I'm going to have. I'm satisfied with the power as it is.

If I had to do it over, and I may be doing that before long, I'd go with a Stage 1 Pressure Plate. It's good for 223 lb/feet and is supposed to need much less oomph. I'm thinking I'd have much less trouble with it.

http://kennedyenginc.com/228mmClutches.aspx
 

markd89

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Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Now running a new clutch and a new KEP adapter plate. This was a job it would have been nice to avoid, but the results were worth it:

We wanted to do this without removing the entire engine and trans. It was possible, but not easy.

The steps were:

1. Drain trans oil.
2. Remove trans nose cone.
3. Loosen engine mounts and move engine/trans as far back as possible.
4. Remove trans.
5. Then repeat in reverse order. I'm told with a non-091 trans, this can be even more difficult due to how the shift rods in the nosecone can get confused.

Kennedy swapped out the incorrect adapter plate for the correct one. I had to pay shipping x2, but am happy to have the right part. The correct one is on top and has the hole to check the timing hole on the back of the custom flywheel.


The Kennedy Stage 2 pressure plate was removed. It needed constant adjustment and I was not happy with it. I sent it back to Kennedy for a post-mortem, but no response. It's been replaced by a LUK clutch from van-cafe.com -- This won't work for a 300lb/ft monster engine, but for my Stage 2 Malone it seems to be fine. It's much less pedal effort and the adjustment seems to be sticking fine.

It'd still be nice to have more travel on the clutch, and I have a solution that works. The LUK clutch is super easy to push, even easier than stock. This let us run a shortened clutch arm. What you're seeing here is an arm for a late model bug (which also has a 20mm hole). It's been shortened by removing 1.75" from the middle. It works, but 1.5" may have been better as the spring doesn't sit exactly perfectly. It's working well, however.

This was welded by an old pro. He said he heli-arc'ed it.

 
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vwa1

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Location
SW Iowa
TDI
1982 Rabbit Turbo Diesel. I think it counts! Please don't banish me to the Vortex!
I agree. I plan to keep it about 70mph anyway as it does tend to get hairy going faster than that. I just want to build the capability to go faster so I could go faster occasionally and so I'm not winding it out too much in normal driving.
When I was young and not quite as bright, I got my old '79 Westy up to 90 mph going down the biggest, steepest, longest hill in the county. It remains to this day the single scariest thing I have ever done in a vehicle. :eek:
Damn, I need to throw a TDI in that thing instead of just letting it sit.
 

amosdoodle

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Location
Raleigh NC
TDI
2002 Jetta wagon 1986 Vanagon TDI
TDI in a Bus

That is why I am swapping the TDI in mine. Don't want to feel bad driving the bus every day. Much more efficient and bio friendly.:)
 
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