1Z/AHU into 78 Bus

markd89

Veteran Member
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Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Radiator mockups

I've done some mockups..

I'd like your feedback, but I'm leaning towards building the mountings for two radiators but only using one radiator initially. I'm thinking with the TDI's low waste heat I may be OK with one radiator. One radiator simplifies things -- 1 is less than 2 -- it also means I don't have to deal with the air pocket between the radiators.

So since I'm laying groundwork for two radiators, all of the pics show that..

Here's was an idea. It didn't work because the connection between the two radiators was hitting the clutch cable, e-brake cables under the bus. It would have worked, but the radiator would have been hanging low.



Next, the layout which did fit:



I'm going to start with installing radiator#1 only, and add radiator#2 only if needed.

The annoying part is bleeding air from the connection between the two radiators. I'd plan to have a hose barb welded in to the pipe between the two 90 degree hoses. If anyone has any suggestions on how to decrease the vertical distance between the red lines, please let me know!



Here's the clearance at the rear (about 10")



I plan to tilt the radiator down at the front about 1" to encourage the air-bubbles to exit from the rear. So figure 1" less clearance at front.



Other specs... each radiator is 31" x 12". The core is 27" x 11.5".

I appreciate any comments and suggestions :)

Mark
 

Reddok

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Hamilton, Ontario
TDI
'00 Jetta TDI 01M, '02 Jeep Liberty Renegade ALH TDI swap
I tried increasing my idle, but that acutally made it worse... The engine was actually causing the body to resonate. I have a SBC motor mount in there right now - I swiss-cheesed it by drilling it full of holes and that helped a bit. I think I'm going to swap in the non hydraulic AHU front mount and see what happens.
 

markd89

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Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I tried increasing my idle, but that acutally made it worse... The engine was actually causing the body to resonate. I have a SBC motor mount in there right now - I swiss-cheesed it by drilling it full of holes and that helped a bit. I think I'm going to swap in the non hydraulic AHU front mount and see what happens.
Cool, please keep me in the loop!
 

markd89

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Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Updates:

I have the radiators in the bus now. No pics and I still need to wire and finalize the tubing.. Pics when that's done.

The Passat engine is extracted, which is a major milestone.

Jeremy, if you're watching the thread, I am saving that weighted donut resonator thing for you :)

 

Technician!

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Jackson, Michigan
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None, currently
I put a 1.6 turbo diesel in a 1975 Type 2 many years ago. Went with really tall rear tires to help lower RPM's on freeway (don't remember specs) and went with a small, front mounted radiator. Planned on making a fake "spare tire" frame around it and covering with screening, but never got that far. Had an elect cooling fan on it, and in all the years I drove it, it only had to come on twice.
 

markd89

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Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I put a 1.6 turbo diesel in a 1975 Type 2 many years ago. Went with really tall rear tires to help lower RPM's on freeway (don't remember specs) and went with a small, front mounted radiator. Planned on making a fake "spare tire" frame around it and covering with screening, but never got that far. Had an elect cooling fan on it, and in all the years I drove it, it only had to come on twice.
Cool, thanks. I'd be curious to see pics if you have any :)

I'm going with a higher 3rd and 4th gear at first, but plan to put on some tall rear tires as well. My target is 2600 rpm at 70 mph and I'll only get to 3000 rpms with the gear changes alone.

Did you get special wheels? I'd be curious about the details on the wheels and tires.

Cooling, I'm going overkill, I know. I have two radiators side by side. These are new, but made to fit a late 80's diesel VW. I'm putting two 12" fans on one of them -- 1000 cfm each fan. The other radiator I'm leaving fan-less. No scoops. I know others have cooled a gasoline engine this way and the TDI produces much less heat. My test will be the 405 hill (the Carmageddon one) when it's a really hot day ;-)

I should be getting the radiator setup finished next week and then will post pics.

Mark
 

markward

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Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
I noticed what looked like "pvc" pipe for your hose connections. In my experience, it will not hold up do to the heat. I realize it is rated probably to what you think would be enough, but it is on the edge of the spec. I could also be wrong about your setup. mark
 

markd89

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Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I noticed what looked like "pvc" pipe for your hose connections. In my experience, it will not hold up do to the heat. I realize it is rated probably to what you think would be enough, but it is on the edge of the spec. I could also be wrong about your setup. mark
Yep, thanks for mentioning this. I wasn't clear. I used the PVC for mockups. I did initially want to use PVC. It supports 450 psi at 70* F but aparently rapidly degrades as temps go up. Too bad as it's $1 for 8 feet and 1" PC fits snugly in 1.25" radiator hoses ;-)

I'm going to use aluminum tube and rubber hoses only. I thought of copper, but I think I have more risk of galvanic corrosion..

Thanks again,

Mark
 

markd89

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Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Progress...

Engine and Trans are out of the bus.

Trans is at Transaxle Engineering for 1.18 3rd and .70 4th gear, chromoly pinion nut and other upgrades as needed. Jeff at Transaxle says it should not break, except if I try to reverse up a hill. He says reverse is the weak link so try to drive so that reverse up-hill is not needed.

The engine is getting some final prep done. The rear-main seal was leaking. IDParts came through with one for $40ish. Turbo oil return line was a little beaten up so that's getting replaced too.

I've got the wiring done on the radiators. More on that and pics tomorrow. Here's where the new engine and trans are going to go :)


 

markd89

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Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Here's the radiator setup.

These are two radiators which fit 80's VW diesels. They're each 31" x 13". Each core is 26.5" x 12.5". The inlet and outlet are the outside connections.

Mounting is simple. There's a flat steel bar running beneath the radiators at the rear. At the front, a steel bar is also used but it's bent to give the radiator a rake effect - lower at the front. I have long carriage bolts which attach the bars to the bus and which can be used to adjust the height. Even in a worst case scenario, I seem to have over 9" of ground clearance which should be plenty.

The rubber hoses are Gates 21528. The U is made out of aluminum. Naturally it's 1.25" OD and I believe the bend is a 1.8" radius. For the bleed, I got parts from McMaster Carr. There's a 90 degree 1/8 NPT and then a 1/8 NPT to 1/4" barb fitting is screwed in with some teflon tape. I had a local welder Heli-Arc the 90 degree fitting into the U tube.

The fans are Chinese from ebay. They're rated 1000 cfm in pull configuration. I reversed the blades and polarity to make them push. With 13.8v across them, they seem to blow nicely. The fans mount with a zip-tie like arrangement through the core. I bought some improved mounts which came with little springs. I think this is useful as the aluminum is going to deform a little and I still want the fans to be snug.

I'm using a temp sensor in one radiator to control a relay which switches the fans on and off. I actually wired in a second relay for two more fans just in-case. I don't think they'll be needed.

There's a lot of seat of the pants science in judging what cooling is enough. I know Greenbuspilot from the Samba who has a water cooled VW engine. He has a copper Chevy truck radiator which is less square inches than my double radiators. Another guy on the Samba has a custom aluminum radiator to cool his Subaru. I have more square inches than him too. Gas puts out more waste heat than diesel so I should have plenty of margin for error.

Two radiators is a PITA because of the need to join them together and deal with the resulting air-pocket. However, I liked the idea of using a readily available cheap radiator. If I need a replacement, I can get one for $100.

I did find an even cheaper radiator. $60 shipped, but it has flattened tubes rather than round ones. I blew through it and it felt more restrictive than the round tube version. Since I'll have more plumbing than stock and double the radiators I wanted to avoid any additional unnecessary restriction so both of these are of the round tube variety.

Pics:




Close-up of the bleeder and U tube:

 
Last edited:

markd89

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Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
The engine is together and mated to the trans. Getting closer.

We tested the starter and it does properly engage and turn the engine, however the solenoid does not retract automatically. If we rotate the engine by hand just a tiny bit, the solenoid retracts.

Any suggestions on possible causes or is this not to be worried about?

Thanks,
Mark



 

markd89

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Location
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I'm looking for suggestions on what to do on one of the engine mounts.

Which mount? In FWD this is the front mount.
In a longitudinal front engine, I'm talking about the left mount and of course, longitudinal rear engine, it's the right mount.

I'm trying to retain the AC compressor, but just am not seeing good spots to attach on the engine. If I have to lose the AC, I will do that.

Any suggestions, much appreciated!

Thanks,

Mark
 

Reddok

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Feb 18, 2010
Location
Hamilton, Ontario
TDI
'00 Jetta TDI 01M, '02 Jeep Liberty Renegade ALH TDI swap
This is how I mounted mine. I was using a SBC motor mount, but have since switched to an AHU mount on that side. Not sure if the AHU has the same mounting holes on the side of the block and the one on the bottom by the oil pan that I used though.



Sorry for the upside down pic. And ignore the Jeep starter - that is the front or drivers side of the motor in the picture. This way allowed me to use the A/C. I did have to modify my lines though.
 

markd89

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Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
This is how I mounted mine. I was using a SBC motor mount, but have since switched to an AHU mount on that side. Not sure if the AHU has the same mounting holes on the side of the block and the one on the bottom by the oil pan that I used though.



Sorry for the upside down pic. And ignore the Jeep starter - that is the front or drivers side of the motor in the picture. This way allowed me to use the A/C. I did have to modify my lines though.
Thanks for posting this.

My plan is to carry almost the entire weight of the engine on the two mounts - one on each side. The engine side right I have under control with the stock hydromount setup.

For engine side left, if I'm understanding your mount correctly, it looks like there's only two smaller bolts (plus the hidden one you mentioned) holding things up.

I'm just a backyard mechanic, but my gut is saying that thicker bolts and thicker metal should be used here to handle the weight and the torque.

Am I misunderstanding something or will this really hold up?

Thanks again,

Mark
 

Reddok

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Location
Hamilton, Ontario
TDI
'00 Jetta TDI 01M, '02 Jeep Liberty Renegade ALH TDI swap
Thanks for posting this.

My plan is to carry almost the entire weight of the engine on the two mounts - one on each side. The engine side right I have under control with the stock hydromount setup.
This is the way mine is set up.


For engine side left, if I'm understanding your mount correctly, it looks like there's only two smaller bolts (plus the hidden one you mentioned) holding things up.

I'm just a backyard mechanic, but my gut is saying that thicker bolts and thicker metal should be used here to handle the weight and the torque.

Am I misunderstanding something or will this really hold up?
That bracket on the engine is 1/4" plate and the bolts I believe are 2 x M10 and 1 x M8. More than enough for even a modified TDI in a 4000lb vehicle. 10,000km without a problem so far.
 

markd89

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Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
We mocked up the engine mounts and talked to the welder. The mounts should be done next week. The engine left side mount, we're using three bosses including one up behind the oil filter. I'll post pics when done :)

Next up is plumbing the intake system. There's going to be a lot going on in a cramped space. I have some pics of what others have done so I have some idea of what I'm looking for.

I'm thinking about what would be the easiest way to mock this up so I'm not buying lots of silicone joiners and pipes I don't need. I'm thinking about getting a bunch of PVC and using that. Any other ideas?

Thanks,

Mark
 

markd89

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Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I know it's conventional to use aluminum for the intake plumbing, but I'm wondering whether exhaust steel tubing or copper plumbing tube might work just fine.

I'm figuring that corrosion won't be an issue as there'll be some blow-by which will coat the inside of the tubing with oil.

What's the down-side?

Thanks,

Mark
 

markward

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Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
Steel is actually easier to deal with because you can find someone that welds steel easier than an aluminum welder. My pipes are stainless steel. I purchased a couple 180 degree mandrel bends and used sections of the bends to make up the pipes.

Aluminum is lighter and probably disipates the heat better than steel. You can use mild steel for getting the system up an running. It is cheaper than aluminum or stainless. You can always change it out later if you decide to do so.
 

kooyajerms

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Aluminum is lighter and probably disipates the heat better than steel.
+1

I believe that's the main goal of using aluminum for the IC pipes. Fast heat dissipation. I like my cooler air temps. I'd also not like the idea of mild steel rusting and flaking off bits into my engine.
 

markd89

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Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Cool, thanks for the input. I guess I'm going to see what I can do with the existing tubes I saved from the Passat. I'll get silicone joiners and aluminum tubes to fab up whatever's missing.

News: The engine mounts are coming along well. This is going to be very heavy-duty. I'll post a bunch of pics Monday or Tuesday when it's all complete.
 

markd89

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Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I'm looking for advice for a thermostat cover - i.e. the flange that covers the thermostat. I'm told that a large number of VW and Audi covers will fit.

I found an aluminum one from an earlier VW, but it is so close to the AC compressor it is almost touching. See the pic below.

I'm looking for a recommendation on one that will either just give me more space between the the AC compressor, or, even better, make a sharp turn to the right in the picture (heading towards the flywheel side of the engine).

I appreciate any advice!

Thanks,

Mark

 

Diesel Mania_26

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Aug 11, 2010
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Acton, Ontario
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03 Golf, 03 Jetta Wagon, 75 Westy (undergoing TDI conversion)
I would be very interested in a replacement for this part that is NOT made of 'Bake-a-lite'.... my 98 TDI elbow just cracked this mornign leaving me stranded...

this is the engine I plan on putting in my 75 Westfalia this winter and would be nice to find a solution for this that didnt crack all the time...
 

markd89

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Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
Engine mounts are done.

Engine Mount Porn Pics Galore!

We used the front Trans mount to hold the engine in place at 15 degrees while the mounts were fabricated. This will be removed shortly. We'll be using only the rear mounts to carry the engine.






We have a support bar which runs under the engine. This bar has 1/4" plates on each end and is comprised of 2" square tube 1/4" thick.




It bolts to the frame on the bus. The frame was reinforced with 1/4" plates on each side of the frame (so 4 plates) total for reinforcement.



The left (driver's) side engine mount is the stock (non-hydraulic) rubber mount which attaches to the engine using the stock arm type mount.




A small ear on the support bar holds the bottom of the left side mount.



The right side mount is trickier. We connect to the engine using a specially fabricated mount. We're getting three horizontal bolts and one vertical bolt.



This mount connects to the top of a hydraulic mount. The bottom of the mount is captured by a long ear from the support bar. This ear is reinforced by two triangles and all is 1/4"



There's a lot of weight pushing on that long ear, but it's reinforced and 1/4" thick. I think it will be OK.




Next up is mocking up the intake components. I'm also still looking for a better thermostat cover which points more towards the flywheel or at least gives me more clearance from the AC compressor.

Mark
 

Diesel Mania_26

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03 Golf, 03 Jetta Wagon, 75 Westy (undergoing TDI conversion)
maybe I missed it in the thread here - but did you HAVE to place the engine at a 15deg angle?

what was the restricting factor there? was it the height clearance to the top of the engine bay?

which way is it angled towards? its difficult to tell in the photos there - I assume its pointing towards the passenger side of the bus...?

and how did you put it at 15deg? you mentioned you used the trans mounts to place this at a 15deg angle while the other mounts were fabricated.... how did you measure that angle?

just curious - I am a couple months away from doing the same thing and starting to line everything up.

good work!
 

markd89

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Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
maybe I missed it in the thread here - but did you HAVE to place the engine at a 15deg angle?

what was the restricting factor there? was it the height clearance to the top of the engine bay?

which way is it angled towards? its difficult to tell in the photos there - I assume its pointing towards the passenger side of the bus...?

and how did you put it at 15deg? you mentioned you used the trans mounts to place this at a 15deg angle while the other mounts were fabricated.... how did you measure that angle?

just curious - I am a couple months away from doing the same thing and starting to line everything up.

good work!
Stock, these engines are leaning 15 degrees to the left (turbo side). The Kennedy adapter I used has the option to lean at 15 or 50 degrees. 50 degrees is used in a Vanagon application to fit under the engine lid. You can also lean at 50 degrees on a bus application but then you need to change out the oil pan and oil pickup. This was the easiest way to go.

I'm not sure if the engine would have fit without leaning. It might have.

By attaching the engine to the trans using the 15 degree marking on the Kennedy plate, then bolting the trans in place, we were assured that the engine was leaning 15 degrees relative to the body.

We compressed the engine mounts using jacks before welding things in place. If we had just measured up and welded, when the weight was released onto the engine, it probably would have dropped an inch or something as the rubber compressed.

FYI: So far, no cutting has been needed on the bus. Vertical clearance is OK. Clearance to the fuel tank, etc. and the frame below it is close but seems OK.

BTW - not sure I mentioned in this thread but I'm not using the $250 IMI Starter. I'm using the stock TDI starter with a $0 adapter from westyventures.com

Mark
 

Diesel Mania_26

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03 Golf, 03 Jetta Wagon, 75 Westy (undergoing TDI conversion)
thx Mark,

I had thought that KEP provides a high torque starter that fits pretty good as well?

IMI which one is that?

$0 adapter from Westyventures?? never seen that ... I will have to see if I can find it.
 

markd89

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Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
KEP sells the IMI one. I bought it and it looks nice. I heard that some of them have reliability issues so I went with the TDI starter instead. I'll be selling my IMI at some point.

Westy Ventures adapter $65 is 3/4 of the way down this page:

http://westyventures.com/parts.html
 

markd89

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Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
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1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
I'm revisiting my mounts. I've used the wrong one on the "front". I'm thinking I can pull the "rear" mount and put it on the "front"

I'm proposing to use one of these on the front:



The correct way to do it, of course, would be to use these but then I'd have to engineer the cup into my mountings.




So my question is would I be OK to use a Rear Mount in the Front?

I'm concerned that I'm going to be pulling on something that should be pushed or vice-versa. However the two mounts shown seem to be constructed the same, with the only difference being that the rear one has an integrated cup.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark
 
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