Ethanol Not As Green As Intended
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Powder Hound
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I think that if you figure a little, you can see that yourself. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a decision the farmers would be pressed to make.
It looks like there are a lot of facets that didn't go the way they were sold as going. What's the solution? Or rather - solutions? I don't think anyone really knows.
It looks like there are a lot of facets that didn't go the way they were sold as going. What's the solution? Or rather - solutions? I don't think anyone really knows.
Lug_Nut
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This isn't really news to some.
actually, it's not news to many.
actually, it's not news to many.
gulfcoastguy
Veteran Member
I would rather the emphasized biodiesel instead. The typical crops used are a lot easier on the soil and usually require less fertilizer, pesticides, and water. It also has a much better energy in/ energy out ratio. I'm not completely opposed to ethanol if they were to reduce the percentage to 5% or less.
kjclow
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The issue isn't which crop they are raising nor it's need for fertilizer. The issue is that a lot of this land has never been tilled and never should have been. They are tilling up hills and valleys that are natural water run offs. Once planted, the water will generally run along the rows, which concentrates the power of the flowing water.
40X40
Experienced
I was unable to enroll land into CRP unless it had been cropped. The rules have changed incrementally over the decades. Different soil types are paid at different rates... YMMV.
Ethanol has completely (or nearly so)substituted MTBE.
Bill
Perfectreign
Veteran Member
FWIW, I tried a few tanks of E85 on my Avalanche.
My mileage dropped as expected, since the energy is less.
what I wasn't prepared for was the increased cost.
Around here, ethanol (E85) is about 15% cheaper than gas. Yet I was getting about 30%less mileage.
The economy just doesn't work out.
My mileage dropped as expected, since the energy is less.
what I wasn't prepared for was the increased cost.
Around here, ethanol (E85) is about 15% cheaper than gas. Yet I was getting about 30%less mileage.
The economy just doesn't work out.
DPM
Top Post Dawg
it's not about the economy, surely?
gulfcoastguy
Veteran Member
Both of my parents were raised on farms. They and their parents knew about contour farming, terrace rows, and how to reduce topsoil erosion. I'm also certified in construction type storm water erosion control and live down not all that far from the dead zone. If they were to reduce the mandated percent to 5% or less instead of 10%, the incentive to plant marginal land would disappear. As to today's farmers part of the problem seems to be part time farmers who plant a single crop that is handled by just themselves and heavy machinery. They actually spend the majority of their time at a day job to stay afloat down here. Compared to Iowa most of our land is marginal land.
kjclow
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I grew up in Iowa and Nebraska. My Uncle and Grandfather farmed the small family farms. Grandad tilled probably 60 acres of his 125. My uncle tilled probably 100 of his 125. My cousins are now farming that same land, plus a lot more. I think together they have about 600 acres and till about 500 of that. I saw the demise of the small family farm into the corporate farm where they took out the houses, outbuildings, trees, fences, and feedyards and then put that all under the plow. Many places in central Iowa are now planted from ditch to ditch in full sections (640 acres or 1 square mile). They created black snow and many of the issues that became your dead zone.
john.jackson9213
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This whole ethanol fuel thing is about buying votes in farm states. Not anything else. Just a transfere of money to factory farms and companies like ADM.
LarBear
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The road to a really really warm place is paved with the best of intentions. Good intentions and the price in your hand will get you a cup of coffee or tea or a pint of stout (preferable), and the good intentions are purely optional.
Pat Dolan
Veteran Member
It is such a shock to hear that the one country that supposedly believes in "free markets" bases its entire agricultural policy around politically motivated subsidies. It is more of a pity that a country with enough education and communication can destroy markets, soil, aquifers and the future by playing some massive market interference with farm subsidies.
I guess when you can let your entire economy be driven by pure fictitious and fabricated speculative transactions, and completely abandon the work and values that created all of the wealth in the first place, it sort of makes sense.
I guess when you can let your entire economy be driven by pure fictitious and fabricated speculative transactions, and completely abandon the work and values that created all of the wealth in the first place, it sort of makes sense.
kjclow
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That's been going on since at least 1935. Once they finally figured out a lot of the issues behind the dust bowl, the federal government started to pay farmers for not farming portions of their land and to plant natural grasses and wind screens. This probably reached its extreme in the 80s when the price of grain and meat was so low that many farmers couldn't afford the fuel or seed to replant.
Added comment: The Canadian government does the same thing. I spend a lot of time west of Toronto and know of a few farmers up there that have been paid not to plant to tobacco.
Added comment: The Canadian government does the same thing. I spend a lot of time west of Toronto and know of a few farmers up there that have been paid not to plant to tobacco.
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aja8888
Top Post Dawg
Pat, this (ethanol) too, shall pass when the next president gets into office and the oil companies are selling more and more refined products overseas. But we have a new 'deal" to take up our time (and our hard earned dollars): "Obamacare" and its imminent failure. The only one that wins in this new game is the insurance companies.
As we all know, ethanol is not really about "saving the environment" or "reducing our dependence on foreign oil", or even making "less expensive fuels".
Pat Dolan
Veteran Member
That has nothing to do with soil conservation or even agriculture itself. That is out of profound respect for the health damage done by tobacco. THAT is health care - what medicine practices is SICK care.
kjclow
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What I was told was that the Canadian government subsidized the tobacco to the point that it was much higher on the market than any other source. They determined that it was in the farmers best interest to pay them not to plant. At least the communication to the level of the guy on the tractor had no indications that this was being done as a humanitarian effort.
Pat Dolan
Veteran Member
The programme was called the "Tobacco Transition Programme" and was not payment to grow, but payment to sell off their quota (was supply managed) and assist to grow alternative crops. Not just for Canadian health policy reasons, but in concert with an international treaty based on health benefits of reducing that drug use. Unfortunately, was abused by some tobacco growers who took the money but back doored the deal and continued to grow.