Canadians that imported US TDI's??

slowboy · Nov 4, 2016

So i purchased my passat tdi from the US, and i am quite confused about the buy back process? From the wording if the car was not registered in the US there would be an issue with eligibility?!?!

The warranty was covered through US dealers and i had a number of warranty work done at the US dealers in the past so i am just wondering if anyone had any specifics on the buyback process for people who exported their tdis from the US to Canada.

If you are in the same position as me please chime in

Airpizz6 · Nov 4, 2016

The eligible vehicle definition in the FTC document says the car has to be 'registered with a state department of motor vehicles or equivalent agency... as of Jun 28, 2016..'. Could be argued that a DMV in Ontario is an equivalent agency, I guess. Not sure I understand the US process for US owners, let alone your case.

Rico567 · Nov 4, 2016

I think this is one of those unusual cases (similar to a thread some months back where a Dieselgatemobile was part of an estate) where more specialized authority needs to be consulted. I'd take advantage of the (free) advice available from the lawyers connected with this case. It is clearly an example where interpretation of the settlement language is called for.

HBarlow · Nov 6, 2016

I'm not an attorney and I haven't even read the settlement agreement but looking at the issue from my uninformed perspective the lawsuit(s) was filed in a US federal court and the settlement is an agreement between VWAG, EPA, DOJ, and lawyers representing American TDI owners for the stated purpose of removing CR2.0TDI cars from US highways or bringing them into compliance with the modified US standard.

Your car is not registered and operated in the US so my guess is it's not covered and therefore you're not entitled to buy back or modification.

I would assume any compensation or modification for your car would have to result from a Canadian agreement with VWAG.

Am I wrong?

slowboy · Nov 6, 2016

I don't think you need to be an American to be entitled to the agreement as I haven't seen any wording regarding that.

Canada does follow the US EPA standards so a car that is approved for US EPA is approved automatically by Environment Canada here.

When I enter my VIN into the VW US settlement site it shows it as eligible, but not eligible through the VW Canada site.

I will try to get this clarified since the wording is a bit confusing:

2.33.
“Eligible Vehicle” means Model Year 2009 through 2015 Volkswagen and Audi light-duty vehicles equipped with 2.0-liter TDI engines that (1) are covered, or purported to be covered, by the EPA Test Groups in the table immediately below this paragraph; (2) are, at any point during the period September 18, 2015 to June 28, 2016, registered with a state Department of Motor Vehicles or equivalent agency or owned by a Non-Volkswagen Dealer in the United States or its territories that (a) holds title to the
vehicle or (b) holds the vehicle by bill of sale; (3) for an Eligible Owner, are currently Operable or
cease to be Operable only after the Opt-Out Deadline; and (4) have not been modified pur
suant to an Approved Emissions Modification. Eligible Vehicle also excludes any Volkswagen or
Audi vehicle that was never sold in the United States or its territories

So in this following part I am not sure if it goes like this:
-registered with a state Department of Motor Vehicles or equivalent agency
-owned by a Non-Volkswagen Dealer in the United States or its territories

Or if the "in the United States or its territories" goes for both.

(2) are, at any point during the period September 18, 2015 to June 28, 2016, registered with a state Department of Motor Vehicles or equivalent agency or owned by a Non-Volkswagen Dealer in the United States or its territories that

Either way, I would still think that anyone who purchased a TDI from VW US and imported it, would have a valid claim with VW since it does not meet the emissions standards it was led to believe that it met. I am just not sure if this settlement covers them or not.

Anyone know how I can get in touch with the lawyers for this case??

HBarlow · Nov 6, 2016

Wishful thinking (or human greed?) is causing you to ignore the obvious reason why you are unlikely to be eligible for a handout. The lawsuit and settlement is for the purpose of bringing US cars into compliance or removing them from the highways.

The lawsuit and settlement doesn't address cars registered and driven in Canada.

You asked for opinions and that's mine. I have no interest in whether you receive a check or not.

BuyMeBackSoon · Nov 6, 2016

Why not register and see what happens?

Airpizz6 · Nov 6, 2016

BuyMeBackSoon said:
Why not register and see what happens?

Just enter Ontario, CA as the location. And the portal will assume you are in California and your submission will go right through. And you have the freedom to select any dealer for turn in, e.g. one in upstate NY.

HBarlow · Nov 7, 2016

What about the minor details of providing a front and back side copy of the certificate of title and a valid state registration to the claims portal?

slowboy · Nov 7, 2016

HBarlow said:
Wishful thinking (or human greed?) is causing you to ignore the obvious reason why you are unlikely to be eligible for a handout. The lawsuit and settlement is for the purpose of bringing US cars into compliance or removing them from the highways.

The lawsuit and settlement doesn't address cars registered and driven in Canada.

You asked for opinions and that's mine. I have no interest in whether you receive a check or not.

Thanks for your opinion, but it seems your statements are far from the facts.

Clearly I am not looking for a 'handout' any more than you are. I would consider us to be in pretty much in the same position, we bought a car and there is discrepancy with federal emissions requirements which means that the cars shouldn't of been sold in the first place.

The only reason I was able to import this car into Canada is because of:

bear a label showing that the vehicle or engine conformed to the emission standards of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in effect at the time of its manufacture;

Either way, I briefly went through the court documents for a better understanding:

The ultimate goal of this agreement is to compensate owners or lessees of Eligible Vehicles for any harm they suffered as a result of the emissions issues and to ensure that Volkswagen’s 2.0-liter TDI vehicles do not generate excess NOx emissions.

From my understanding I would be an eligible owner.

2.30.
“Eligible Owner” means the registered owner or owners of an Eligible Vehicle on June 28, 2016, or the registered owner or owners who acquire an Eligible Vehicle after June 28, 2016, but before the end of the Claim Period, except that the owner of an Eligible Vehicle who had an active lease issued by VW Credit, Inc. as of September 18, 2015, and purchased an Eligible Vehicle previously leased by that owner after June 28, 2016, shall be an Eligible Lessee.

A Non-Volkswagen Dealer who, on or after June 28, 2016, holds title to or holds by bill of sale an Eligible Vehicle in the United States or its territories shall qualify as an Eligible Owner regardless of whether that Non-Volkswagen Dealer is registered as the owner of the Eligible Vehicle, provided that the Non-Volkswagen Dealer otherwise meets the definition of Eligible Owner.

For avoidance of doubt, an Eligible Owner ceases to be an Eligible Owner if he transfers ownership of the Eligible Vehicle to a third party on or after June 28, 2016; and a third party who acquires ownership of an Eligible Vehicle on or after June 28, 2016, thereby becomes an Eligible Owner if that third party otherwise meets the definition of an Eligible Owner.

An owner of an Eligible Vehicle will not qualify as an Eligible Owner while the Eligible Vehicle is under lease to any third party, although any such owner, including any leasing company other than VW Credit, Inc., who otherwise meets the definition of an Eligible Owner would become an Eligible Owner if such lease has been canceled or terminated and the owner has taken possession of the vehicle. In exceptional cases, specific arrangements may be made with the leasing company, in consultation with the Claims Supervisor, such that, (1) without canceling or terminating the lease, the leasing company may be treated as an Eligible Owner and obtain an Approved Emissions Modification and Owner Restitution and (2) a lessor that takes possession of a leased Eligible Vehicle after the September 1, 2018, Claim submission deadline (or the December 30, 2018, end date of the Claim Program) may nonetheless be entitled to submit a Claim.

And I am also an eligible seller

2.31.
“Eligible Seller” means a person who purchased or otherwise acquired an Eligible Vehicle on or before September 18, 2015, and sold or otherwise transferred ownership of such vehicle after September 18, 2015, but before June 28, 2016. For avoidance of doubt, Eligible Seller includes any owner (1) who acquired his, her, or its Eligible Vehicle on or before September 18, 2015, (2) whose Eligible Vehicle was totaled, and (3) who consequently transferred title of his, her, or its vehicle to an insurance company after September 18, 2015, but before June 28, 2016.

From the way its worded in the rest of the document, they want the non-vw dealers to be in the US and territories.

2.33.
“Eligible Vehicle” means Model Year 2009 through 2015 Volkswagen and Audi light-duty vehicles equipped with 2.0-liter TDI engines that (1) are covered, or purported to be covered, by the EPA Test Groups in the table immediately below this paragraph; (2) are, at any point during the period September 18, 2015 to June 28, 2016, registered with a state Department of Motor Vehicles or equivalent agency or owned by a Non-Volkswagen Dealer in the United States or its territories that (a) holds title to the vehicle or (b) holds the vehicle by bill of sale; (3) for an Eligible Owner, are currently Operable or cease to be Operable only after the Opt-Out Deadline; and (4) have not been modified pursuant to an Approved Emissions Modification. Eligible Vehicle also excludes any Volkswagen or Audi vehicle that was never sold in the United States or its territories.

I will try to get some clarification from Elizabeth J. Cabraser's office which is the Class Counsel.

Airpizz6 · Nov 7, 2016

You cannot be both an 'eligible owner' and an 'eligible seller' for the same vehicle unless you sold it to yourself. And the claim deadline for 'eligible sellers' is long past.

The real question to me is whether that vehicle is ineligible since it was not registered in the US at any point between Sep 15 and Jun 16. If it was maybe....

IndigoBlueWagon · Nov 7, 2016

Why did you purchase a vehicle in the US? Did you buy it here and subsequently move to Canada, or was there another reason?

slowboy · Nov 7, 2016

Airpizz6 said:
You cannot be both an 'eligible owner' and an 'eligible seller' for the same vehicle unless you sold it to yourself. And the claim deadline for 'eligible sellers' is long past.

The real question to me is whether that vehicle is ineligible since it was not registered in the US at any point between Sep 15 and Jun 16 of this year. If it was maybe....

Oops! I just realized the difference between the eligible owner and seller

Yep that is exactly what I want to clarify regarding the registration issue

I left a VM with the law firm awaiting a response

IndigoBlueWagon said:
Why did you purchase a vehicle in the US? Did you buy it here and subsequently move to Canada, or was there another reason?

There was about $5k difference in the price between Canada and the US dealers at the time due to the exchange rate. Got it through Chris Farnham which was great to deal with and was a member on the fourms. RIP

Now the tables have turned Canadian cars are cheaper than US cars with todays exchange rates and it looks like US buyers are now buying from Canadian dealers

delta18 · Nov 7, 2016

HBarlow said:
I'm not an attorney and I haven't even read the settlement agreement but looking at the issue from my uninformed perspective the lawsuit(s) was filed in a US federal court and the settlement is an agreement between VWAG, EPA, DOJ, and lawyers representing American TDI owners for the stated purpose of removing CR2.0TDI cars from US highways or bringing them into compliance with the modified US standard.

Your car is not registered and operated in the US so my guess is it's not covered and therefore you're not entitled to buy back or modification.

I would assume any compensation or modification for your car would have to result from a Canadian agreement with VWAG.

Am I wrong?

This is not the case as far as VW is looking at it though, otherwise they would consider my car (Canadian purchased TDI, registered in the US) eligible for the settlement but they do not.

slowboy - you may wish to check out my posts both in a thread I started on the issues that those of us with imported TDI's are dealing with (on both sides of the border) and some comments I posted in the Canadian TDI thread. I would suggest you also get in touch with the Canadian lawfirm handling the case in Canada (Sutts, Strosberg). I had some conversations with them regarding my case and it would appear that unlike the US class action they appear to be considering US market TDI owners with vehicles registered in Canada part of their class.

It is only those of use with Canadian VWs in the US who seem to be SOL.

slowboy · Nov 7, 2016

delta18 said:
This is not the case as far as VW is looking at it though, otherwise they would consider my car (Canadian purchased TDI, registered in the US) eligible for the settlement but they do not.

slowboy - you may wish to check out my posts both in a thread I started on the issues that those of us with imported TDI's are dealing with (on both sides of the border) and some comments I posted in the Canadian TDI thread. I would suggest you also get in touch with the Canadian lawfirm handling the case in Canada (Sutts, Strosberg). I had some conversations with them regarding my case and it would appear that unlike the US class action they appear to be considering US market TDI owners with vehicles registered in Canada part of their class.

It is only those of use with Canadian VWs in the US who seem to be SOL.

Thanks so much for your input! I will definitely read up on more of your posts. I think I had come across some of them when I was searching for answers.

I just called Sutts, Strosberg and left a message as well so we'll see what they think.

slowboy · Nov 7, 2016

So I called the 1-844-98-CLAIM as well and got lot of conflicting answers, some told me to just upload documents selecting the state I purchased from and they will fix it later. Some told me they are not equipped to check titles from abroad. And some told me that in the FAQ section of the site it says it must of been registered in the US

Your vehicle does not need to be currently registered to be eligible. In order for the vehicle to be eligible, it must have been registered in the U.S. at some point between September 18, 2015 and June 28, 2016, but the registration need not have been in your name. In order for you to be eligible, you must have registered the vehicle in your name at some point after September 18, 2015.
If you are a non-Volkswagen Dealer in the United States or its territories, you may provide a title or bill of sale in place of a registration.

I also called and left a message for the Class Counsel at 1 800 948 2181 hopefully they can give me a definite answer

Reactorface · Dec 22, 2016

separate action

[FONT=&quot]FYI. from V.W.class action lawyers

For those who may have been deemed ineligible for the current class action settlement due to importing an affected vehicle from the U.S. into Can. there will be a separate “action” for those who come forward. Call 1-866-881-2292 or 1-844-425-2934.[/FONT]

norcorider · Dec 23, 2016

slowboy said:
So i purchased my passat tdi from the US, and i am quite confused about the buy back process? From the wording if the car was not registered in the US there would be an issue with eligibility?!?!
The warranty was covered through US dealers and i had a number of warranty work done at the US dealers in the past so i am just wondering if anyone had any specifics on the buyback process for people who exported their tdis from the US to Canada.
If you are in the same position as me please chime in

I am in same boat as you. We have a separate thread going as well on same.
I called VWClaims US and after long conversation was told to not submit claim in US as it will be rejected cause my car was not registered in US on sep 2015. They told me to pursue VW CA to have my VIN added in Canadian settlement. I escalated matter to VW settlment team Canada and received a call today that I am not eligible in canada either as per the eligibility criteria defined by court. The only option we have is to object the settlement.

I will call the VW class action lawyers as advised by ReactorFace

IndigoBlueWagon · Dec 23, 2016

slowboy said:
There was about $5k difference in the price between Canada and the US dealers at the time due to the exchange rate.

Seems you've already been compensated.

Reactorface · Dec 23, 2016

norcorider said:
The only option we have is to object the settlement.

I will call the VW class action lawyers as advised by ReactorFace

you can't object the Action unless you are eligible for inclusion into the Action

DaleT · Dec 23, 2016

Norcorider, you said there was a thread about imported vehicles. Would you mind posting a link?

Until today I was under the impression my Touareg was covered for the scandal with VW Canada...because that's what they told me at the same time as I registered with them. They also sent me the $1000 loyalty cards. Now I find out that US vehicles registered in Canada are somehow out of the loop.

I'm really confused. Don't the governments of the US and Canada want these over-polluting vehicles either fixed or off the road? If so, how can VW say they're not going to be responsible for these vehicles because of where they live?

I'll be calling the attorney number given here after the holidays but it makes sense for those in the same boat to stay in touch.

norcorider · Dec 23, 2016

DaleT said:
Norcorider, you said there was a thread about imported vehicles. Would you mind posting a link?

Here it is http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=456857&page=3

DaleT · Dec 23, 2016

Thank you

Falccros · Feb 9, 2017

ONT owner with US VIN sportwgon tdi

I only found this forum after long battles - I first battled VW Canada to get the "customer loyalty" please be patient $1000 credit (500MC/500dealership credit) from VW Canada. That eventually took sending a registered letter to the CEO of VW Canada, after months and dozens of phone calls! But, we go that and spent it ASAP

We have a 2011 Jetta tdi sportwagon we bought at an Ontario (non VW specific dealership) that was originally from upper state NY and brought in legally, and sold legally in Ontario.

We were unable to register for the VW Canada settlement (due to the US VIN). Again I battled my way up the corporate ladder until VW Canada simply said they would not see my vehicle as part of their claim. I then called the lawyers group for the VW Canada class action suit. They took my info and advised: we should file a complaint that has to received before March 4th for the current settlement (although the vehicle really is not included and is labelled a "moving vehicle" (having crossed borders prior to, and sale prior to, the EVENT)). They said if enough of us loudly protest the judge MAY see fit to include us in this settlement. If not, the next best option is that they will take on another class settlement action on our behalf. The best we can do is complain loudly, hope for an understanding judge, and get the word out to other owners!

In the meantime I have contacted the local dealership re trade in value, and have alternatively been told to sit tight, or as of late, nothing at all.

I have found no information on Ontario legislative law re the "fix", and if we can keep the car and if VW's fix will make it legal to plate etc., nor have I heard anything more about the fix and where VW is with it, and its legislative binding in various jurisdictions!

I will update, as my story continues! Kudos to those of you have posted so much earlier!

FALC

bluetoy · Feb 9, 2017

Falccros said:
I have found no information on Ontario legislative law re the "fix", and if we can keep the car and if VW's fix will make it legal to plate etc.,

Your car will pass any current etest in Ontario. Unless they change the laws to banish VW tdi's there is no reason to think you cannot continue on as if nothing happened. This whole thing about being forced to sell your car back to VW is nonsense. You do not have to get your car "fixed" and you do not have to sell it back, and since there is no settlement there is nothing to do until after march 31/17. Worry about it then.

Vlad · Mar 14, 2017

TDI expat

Anyone have any updates regarding TDIs bought in the US and imported to Canada. Like some other unfortunate expats, I am stuck in a limbo state and trying to get any answer is impossible. Usually end up talking to a "Supervisor Donna" from South Carolina who will look into it and get back to me. So far, nothing ...

pikawel · Mar 17, 2017

Vlad said:
Anyone have any updates regarding TDIs bought in the US and imported to Canada. Like some other unfortunate expats, I am stuck in a limbo state and trying to get any answer is impossible. Usually end up talking to a "Supervisor Donna" from South Carolina who will look into it and get back to me. So far, nothing ...

Also curious about US originating vehicles which go to Canada and come back.

Falccros · Mar 18, 2017

We have a US tdi bought in Canada and registered here and are in the same boat.
March 30 the Ontario Superior court is ruling on the settlement for Canadians (seperate from the settle for Canadians in Quebec). Our car is not included because it a "moving vehicle" [one which crossed the border]
We are filing an official legal objection to the settlement saying that we should be [ergo so should all cross border vehicles] included by one or the other, or a combo of both, countries' settlements.
The lawyers do not think that it will have much luck as an appeal because the judge may not be able to rule on the fairness to owners who are not included as it does not apply to them!
Will post an update when we hear back from the courts!

uchu · Mar 18, 2017

Falccros said:
We have a US tdi bought in Canada and registered here and are in the same boat.
March 30 the Ontario Superior court is ruling on the settlement for Canadians (seperate from the settle for Canadians in Quebec). Our car is not included because it a "moving vehicle" [one which crossed the border]
We are filing an official legal objection to the settlement saying that we should be [ergo so should all cross border vehicles] included by one or the other, or a combo of both, countries' settlements.
The lawyers do not think that it will have much luck as an appeal because the judge may not be able to rule on the fairness to owners who are not included as it does not apply to them!
Will post an update when we hear back from the courts!

The hearing in Ontario is scheduled for March 31 (March 22 in Quebec).

pikawel · Mar 22, 2017

Falccros - looking forward to what you find!

Canadians that imported US TDI's??

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