Dieselgate, The Canadian Edition

crashtested

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Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Location
Nelson, BC
TDI
2016 Q5 TDI Technik, 2014 GSW CL 6MT (RIP), 2004 Jetta GLS 5MT (sold), 2010 GSW HL 6MT (buy back)
Any direct indication of when we might hear something?
 

Lister

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Location
Vancouver
TDI
2005 Z4, 2007 Audi A3 RIP, 2013 Jetta Dirty Diesel, 2013 BMW 328i
Any direct indication of when we might hear something?
I feel that, and this is my opinion, that the judge didn't like the end result of the agreement, and he would like VW to "try again."

I am not saying that we will get full purchase, but I think we may be getting more than what was tentatively agreed upon by VW and the CA.

I just want this put to bed so I can get my cheque, or direct deposit.
 

JohnNS

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Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Location
Nova Scotia
TDI
2009 JSW
Let's just remember, that the government washed their hands off it and chose NOT to get legally involved. Think about it ... which political party would voluntarily gave up an opportunity to show the bad guys how strong our consumer protection laws as well as environmental laws are?? None, that is if they believed they can get the right conviction or settlement for the affected consumers. It would be an election talking point for x number of years .... but they gave up this opportunity and left it with Ontario judge? Yeah, ok, I get it.

People keep saying the government "washed their hands" of it and didn't get involved...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-deal-canada-1.3903045

"Meanwhile, the federal Competition Bureau said it has reached a consent agreement with Volkswagen Canada and Audi Canada for an additional $15-million penalty."

http://www.autofocus.ca/news-events/news/vw-could-face-prosecution-by-canadian-government

"Environment and Climate Change Canada may recommend charges be laid by the PPSC under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, based upon the findings of their investigation currently underway, reports Automotive News Canada."

Just because you either miss the news or nothing has come out doesn't mean there's nothing being done.
 

JohnNS

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Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Location
Nova Scotia
TDI
2009 JSW
It's got nothing to do with the marketing label, and everything to do with breaking the law. It wouldn't change anything if they marketed the car on any other attribute.

Apparently the feds had an issue with the marketing and slapped a 15mil fine on them. (see above link)
 

mxs

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Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Location
Ontario
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
Where did I say full purchase price in my last post?
You didn't per say, but your reply was end of string regarding how taxes should be part of the settlement as well etc. You will not get the tax back, unless you are getting back the full purchase price, essentially reversing the original transaction you stepped into with VW .... and that chance is so slim that it's a waste of time to discuss.
 

mxs

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Location
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TDI
2010 Golf TDI
People keep saying the government "washed their hands" of it and didn't get involved...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-deal-canada-1.3903045
"Meanwhile, the federal Competition Bureau said it has reached a consent agreement with Volkswagen Canada and Audi Canada for an additional $15-million penalty."
http://www.autofocus.ca/news-events/news/vw-could-face-prosecution-by-canadian-government
"Environment and Climate Change Canada may recommend charges be laid by the PPSC under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, based upon the findings of their investigation currently underway, reports Automotive News Canada."
Just because you either miss the news or nothing has come out doesn't mean there's nothing being done.

Yes, because this really proves how the government went vigorously after VW on behalf of the consumers.

They are taking their sweet time investigating, eh? And I am sure they will continue to investigate long time after you have your cheque from VW ....

Imagine the EPA and DOA, would have said the same thing south of the border. If you want to take a stand that's how you do it. Not claiming on-going investigation (not sure what they investigate, when EPA and DOA did all the heavy lifting ...) and letting the legal lifting be done by class action lawyers with the same government not being present at the same table ....
 

mxs

Veteran Member
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Location
Ontario
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
Apparently the feds had an issue with the marketing and slapped a 15mil fine on them. (see above link)

And that somehow proves, that the consumers were rushing to buy TDI's because of the "CleanDiesel" label? I don't think so .... but it was a low hanging fruit for the CPA to lay a meaningless fine to me as a consumer waiting for the settlement.

The same government which approved the cars for use on Canadian roads, trusting whatever the manufacturers say on paper?

No, they really are not as serious about it as you think they are.
 

Lister

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Vancouver
TDI
2005 Z4, 2007 Audi A3 RIP, 2013 Jetta Dirty Diesel, 2013 BMW 328i
And that somehow proves, that the consumers were rushing to buy TDI's because of the "CleanDiesel" label? I don't think so .... but it was a low hanging fruit for the CPA to lay a meaningless fine to me as a consumer waiting for the settlement.

The same government which approved the cars for use on Canadian roads, trusting whatever the manufacturers say on paper?

No, they really are not as serious about it as you think they are.
Well the judge seemed to have an issue with this settlement, or he would have stamped his approval on it, and we would all be off to the races.

I agree that discussing the what ifs isn't fruitful, but it does pass the time away while we wait for this fiasco to be concluded.
 

JohnNS

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Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Location
Nova Scotia
TDI
2009 JSW
Yes, because this really proves how the government went vigorously after VW on behalf of the consumers.
They are taking their sweet time investigating, eh? And I am sure they will continue to investigate long time after you have your cheque from VW ....
Imagine the EPA and DOA, would have said the same thing south of the border. If you want to take a stand that's how you do it. Not claiming on-going investigation (not sure what they investigate, when EPA and DOA did all the heavy lifting ...) and letting the legal lifting be done by class action lawyers with the same government not being present at the same table ....
And that somehow proves, that the consumers were rushing to buy TDI's because of the "CleanDiesel" label? I don't think so .... but it was a low hanging fruit for the CPA to lay a meaningless fine to me as a consumer waiting for the settlement.
The same government which approved the cars for use on Canadian roads, trusting whatever the manufacturers say on paper?
No, they really are not as serious about it as you think they are.
If you listen closely you can hear the sound of the goal posts moving. :)
 

crashtested

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Nelson, BC
TDI
2016 Q5 TDI Technik, 2014 GSW CL 6MT (RIP), 2004 Jetta GLS 5MT (sold), 2010 GSW HL 6MT (buy back)
You are kidding, right?
Ummm no.

I'll admit that I visit this post more then a few times a day but I also skim along over a lot of the C R A P.

Not sure why the judge would ask for what he did w/o giving some sort of date for his decision.
 

Pachena

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Location
Greater Vancouver
TDI
2013 Passat Highline - w Tech, Sport
It's got nothing to do with the marketing label, and everything to do with breaking the law. It wouldn't change anything if they marketed the car on any other attribute.
Misrepresentation is also against the law.

It would be different lawsuit.

Like Hyundai misrepresenting fuel economy on some of their vehicles
 

Pachena

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Location
Greater Vancouver
TDI
2013 Passat Highline - w Tech, Sport
Not really, as you get a tax credit on the residual value of the car when you trade it. What you say only applies if you don't buy another car, or sell privately.
As I understand things, the above statement regarding a tax credit is only true if I trade in my vehicle for another VW or Audi, at least as far as the settlement goes.

For most of us who trade or run it into the ground, it doesn't apply. Moreover, running it into the ground and taking the fix-it compensation is still possible with your TDI. Buyback or trade, are only two of the 4 options, the other 2 being keep, fix and be compensated, and do nothing.
I don't know what most of the approximately 105,000 will do. In the US, there are lots of TDI's accumulating in some large parking lots (Silverdome, Norton AFB, Port of Baltimore, etc) from folks getting rid of their TDI's. I expect a lot of buybacks/trades north of the border as well.

For me, I want rid of the vehicle as soon as a fair settlement is determined (even though it would fit into my plans a lot better if I waited a while longer before turning it in).

I've learned my lesson, and VW will never get another dime of my money, so that pretty much rules out trade-in, leaving only the buy-back as an option.

So, I'm saying I'll be out those taxes.

Where there might be a case is for VW to top up the offer to compensate for the reduced tax credit due to reduced market value at trade, as tax law says the tax credit is on fair market value which dieselgate depressed. VW will presumably argue though, that this is what the $5500 compensation in my case, is at least partly for.
When I factor in taxes I've spent, along with the extra costs such as my snows, other set of wheels, floor mats, etc — I don't know if the $5500 even quite covers it. It might, but barely.
 

Scotsman

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2016
Location
Ontario
TDI
Golf, Touareg
Last mile in a marathon

This is like the last mile in a marathon! No experience of course but can imagine. Too tired to continue and too tired to stop. Once I get the 2011 Golf sorted, got to through the process for a 2014 Touareg. Come on Judge!!!
 

cuestalf

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
Location
Canada
TDI
2012 GSW TDI 2.0L
Taxes

If, for some reason, the judge declares that full value should be returned/paid back to TDI's owner, doesn't it mean that government should return the taxes component paid to VW when those cars were bought?
I don't think JT will be happy with that. At this point, maybe the judge only wants to question or make small modifications to the settlement before OKing it.

When a TDI was bought from VW, before Sept 2015, it was a fraudulent transaction. VW is responsible for that. And judge is making sure VW pays for that. But everything else that the selling dealer makes buyer buy from them (warranty extension, rust prot, paint prot, tinted windows, etc...) are not VW Canada responsibilities. All of those "add-on" are legit and, if ever, dealers are the one on the hook for that.
VW Canada is not VW Dealer, in fact Dealers are another victim in all of this problem.
 

ecode

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Location
Toronto
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
If, for some reason, the judge declares that full value should be returned/paid back to TDI's owner, doesn't it mean that government should return the taxes component paid to VW when those cars were bought?
I don't think JT will be happy with that. At this point, maybe the judge only wants to question or make small modifications to the settlement before OKing it.
Just correcting this, the judge can't declare anything.... he can reject the settlement and state reasons (maybe owners not getting full price is one of his reasons), but can't actually make the settlement do anything.
 

Swatch

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Montréal, Québec
TDI
BUYBACK : Golf Sportwagen TDi 2010
Just correcting this, the judge can't declare anything.... he can reject the settlement and state reasons (maybe owners not getting full price is one of his reasons), but can't actually make the settlement do anything.
I tend to agree with you on that. But all this process hasn't been explained. I asked the lawyers what would be the real effect of my objections (I sent 3 objections) and didn't have any answer.

So, if the judge has to accept or reject the settlement without any modification, why were we able to sent objections? This part of the process is not very clear and is very confusing IMO.
 

ecode

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Location
Toronto
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Mk6 Wagon
Interesting, has anyone else in Canada seen these problems? I have definitely had much worst mileage recently and then my turbo died. My car is basically undrivable right now.
Also, if the car is undrivable what happens to the buy back, anyone know?
Completely different fix, and completely unrelated to Canadian cars... UK cares about CO2, we care about NOx....

Define 'basically undriveable'.... I have not heard of ANY issues of that magnitude in the US or Canada....
 

NSTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Nova Scotia
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15 Passat
For kicks, I entered my VIN in the CBB calculator again, with 135000 KM's, its the same $17,013; with 150,000 its a bit higher at $17,013 (it was $16,910); at 170,000 its a bit higher too at $16,125 (was $15,829). The old numbers were at Feb 25/17.

I guess they have gone up in value a bit?;);) Must be that judge's work.:cool::cool:
 

vwrust

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Location
Ottawa
TDI
Golf 2010
Completely different fix, and completely unrelated to Canadian cars... UK cares about CO2, we care about NOx....
Define 'basically undriveable'.... I have not heard of ANY issues of that magnitude in the US or Canada....
I was told by the VW mechanic at the dealer that the 'turbo died' and it would cost $3000 plus to fix. I decided to skip it as I am hoping for the buy back ASAP. As it is now, if you engage the turbo by putting your foot down too hard on the accelerator (and that is hardly down at all) then the glow plug light starts flashing and the car loses all acceleration. So, in order to drive it you have to be very careful to never accelerate with ANY speed. If you muck up then you have to stop and restart the car. If that happens twice in a row then the CEL light goes on. If you are able to drive it very gingerly for a while the CEL light will go back off and you can continue with a no acceleration car. I can get it up to 80 km/hr but this is a very slow process.

So, the car is undrivable as having a no acceleration can be very unsafe in certain situations and it is extremely frustrating. At this point I have parked the car and I drive it once a week a short distance as I don't want it to stop working all together. I just thought it was interesting that the UK paper mentioned both decreased mileage and turbos dying which I have seen in my car.
 

NSTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2002
Location
Nova Scotia
TDI
15 Passat
I was told by the VW mechanic at the dealer that the 'turbo died' and it would cost $3000 plus to fix. I decided to skip it as I am hoping for the buy back ASAP. As it is now, if you engage the turbo by putting your foot down too hard on the accelerator (and that is hardly down at all) then the glow plug light starts flashing and the car loses all acceleration. So, in order to drive it you have to be very careful to never accelerate with ANY speed. If you muck up then you have to stop and restart the car. If that happens twice in a row then the CEL light goes on. If you are able to drive it very gingerly for a while the CEL light will go back off and you can continue with a no acceleration car. I can get it up to 80 km/hr but this is a very slow process.

So, the car is undrivable as having a no acceleration can be very unsafe in certain situations and it is extremely frustrating. At this point I have parked the car and I drive it once a week a short distance as I don't want it to stop working all together. I just thought it was interesting that the UK paper mentioned both decreased mileage and turbos dying which I have seen in my car.
I would suggest not driving it at all. The turbo may blow up and you won't be able to drive it to the dealer. Just keep the battery charged and hope you can return it for the buyback soon. Drive it very lightly on the way to the dealer.
In the US, all it needed to be was able to drive into the dealer's premises, hopefully that holds true here.
 

Swatch

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Montréal, Québec
TDI
BUYBACK : Golf Sportwagen TDi 2010
For kicks, I entered my VIN in the CBB calculator again, with 135000 KM's, its the same $17,013; with 150,000 its a bit higher at $17,013 (it was $16,910); at 170,000 its a bit higher too at $16,125 (was $15,829). The old numbers were at Feb 25/17.

I guess they have gone up in value a bit?;);) Must be that judge's work.:cool::cool:
Nothing changed in my case, same value.
 

ecode

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Toronto
TDI
Mk6 Wagon
I would suggest not driving it at all. The turbo may blow up and you won't be able to drive it to the dealer. Just keep the battery charged and hope you can return it for the buyback soon. Drive it very lightly on the way to the dealer.
In the US, all it needed to be was able to drive into the dealer's premises, hopefully that holds true here.
Nothing changed in my case, same value.
The mileage category breakpoints all went up 4000km this month. Values of those categories didn't change, but the breakpoints did.

If you are in the high mileage category, you'll see daily changes in the numbers since the calculation uses 'days in service' in it.
 

Torqlvr

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Location
Ontario
TDI
2012 Passat
Buyback vs Repair uptake in USA

I don't know what most of the approximately 105,000 will do. In the US, there are lots of TDI's accumulating in some large parking lots (Silverdome, Norton AFB, Port of Baltimore, etc) from folks getting rid of their TDI's. I expect a lot of buybacks/trades north of the border as well.

FYI
Re: USA buyback/repair

"Breaking down that figure, approximately 238,000 vehicles have been bought back, with an additional 6,200 having undergone repairs."

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/...repaired-more-than-half-of-2-0-liter-diesels/
 

Pachena

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Location
Greater Vancouver
TDI
2013 Passat Highline - w Tech, Sport
Interesting, has anyone else in Canada seen these problems? I have definitely had much worst mileage recently and then my turbo died. My car is basically undrivable right now.
Also, if the car is undrivable what happens to the buy back, anyone know?
Per the Settlement Site FAQ:
25. CAN I RECEIVE BENEFITS IF MY VEHICLE IS NOT OPERABLE?
In order for eligible Settlement Class Members to receive a Buyback, Trade-In or Approved Emissions Modification from the Settlement, their Eligible Vehicle must be operable—i.e., can be driven under the power of its own 2.0-litre TDI engine—when brought in to a Volkswagen or Audi dealership to participate in the Settlement. A vehicle is not considered operable if, among other reasons, it had a branded title of “Dismantled”, “Junk”, “Salvage” or “Mechanically Unfit” on September 18, 2015, or was acquired from a junkyard or salvage yard on or after September 18, 2015.
A colleague with a 2012 Passat TDI had a NOx sensor go on his car... too expensive a repair before the buyback according to him -- so he's got less than 50 KM left before the vehicle won't start (according to the count down warning!).
 
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