No Relay Clicks or Cranking When I Turn The Key

Hi again everybody,

I have a starting issue. As the title says, don't hear the relays firing and no crank.

I had run it earlier in the day and then I came back and it would crank not fire. I played around with a few things including opening the fuel filter drain and got it going. Turned it off and on twice and figured it was fine. Came back out 10min later get a crank and no fire. I tried cranking a lot thinking I might have a fuel leak or something then it slowed and stopped cranking. I thought it was the battery dying by now even after boosting and charging though I get no cranking nor can I hear the fuel pumping. The keys work, the horn, dashlights, etc. Did I burn something out with all the cranking? Could a bad starter cause this? Wouldn't I still hear the fuel pump priming and relays firing even if the starter was bad?

I shorted the clutch position sensor leads after pulling the connector from the petal because I thought the clutch felt looser but no luck. I also swapped the horn relay with the other 53 relay which is in the starter circuit I believe, both are good. Tried to check any fuses that I knew would be relevant (the 110Amp above the battery) and some small fuses left of steering wheel. Is there a list of the ones I need to check somewhere? What's the other relay for on there and those two 15amp fuses on top of the relay panel?

Anyone have a good schematic for the starting circuit?

What else should I try?

Manual transmission btw

Thanks in advance guys,
Joe

That 2001 has no fuel pump from factory, unless you installed one.
Start at your battery, fuses on top including the connections. That relay was a good try.
How about them fusses. Pull them and test for continuity . Grounds. That's where I would start.
Cheers

I would maybe have the battery load tested.
No clicks at all tells me the solenoid isn't getting power unless the clicking isn't audible.

Muzy is right, no fuel pump other than the IP.
Run the fuse checks as he stated and the 109 relay is possible.

Crank no start leads to the ASV, however, No crank leads to battery, starter solenoid, relay 109 and any other relay that actuates the starter.

A bad battery is possible, and as mentioned above grounds. A broken ground wire to the engine block is very likely to cause similar issues.

Start with low hanging fruit, fuses grounds, load test battery to ensure its health etc.

Charge battery and allow to rest for several hours (some say 24 hours). Check voltage; it should be 12.5 - 12.7. Check voltage draw-down when you crank; shouldn't dip below 10v. Need to hear what you get here before trying to move on with this. BUT, do NOT crank for more than 10 continuous seconds, and allow a couple of minutes between cranks.

And to clarify... there are no relays in the starting circuit other than the starter solenoid itself. Nothing else to click when you turn the key.

Vince Waldon said:

And to clarify... there are no relays in the starting circuit other than the starter solenoid itself. Nothing else to click when you turn the key.

Click to expand...

Fuel cutoff solenoid?

Change out the 109 relay, old failure prone unit is black new replacement is grey.

Check the trigger wire that is attached to the top of the starter. It is a single wire that plugs in. It comes from under the battery tray and that happens to be the place where it can chafe and give you no crank no start problems.

Hi again guys,

Thank you for clarifying some of my misconceptions about relays and pumps.

I got a multimeter and did some testing and here's where I'm at now.

No voltage to the starter motor, solenoid gets it. Haven't checked the signal line yet will do tomorrow.

I have an old 109 relay (black) in there. Went to my 2001 parts car and it appears it does not have a 109. I see a 180, a 100, and the usual two 53's. If that car had it's relay updated what would the number be on the new 109? Still a 109? Just grey?

Also while mucking around checking stuff I got my girlfriend to operate the keys and I noticed that the injector pump actually does make clicking noises so I may not be too bad off.

Guess I gotta check the signal wire if that's getting voltage then I got a bad solenoid and if not then is it likely that 109 relay?

Thanks for the informed advice as usual guys.

Not entirely sure what this means No voltage to the starter motor, solenoid gets it. but...

This needs to go back to basic troubleshooting. There should be 12v at the 13mm connection on the back of the starter(this wire runs back up to the battery with no fuses, if it does not have power check over your battery connection), as well, that thick wire runs into the back of the main starter motor, make sure its in good condition, they go bad over time. When you turn the key to the 'start' position, the 12v trigger wire to the solenoid should be 12v.. or have power. If that wire DOES NOT have power when the key is in start position you have a power issue. If it DOES, you have a starter problem. Unlike most electrical circuits in these VW's, this circuit to the starter is still very basic.

until you get the car turning over relay 109 means nothing, and the fact that the IP is clicking, that system is probably fine.

Replace that black 109, I can't believe it's still in there.

Steve, what I meant was that the line from the battery to the solenoid is good but that nothing is getting to the actual starter motor past the solenoid. I have yet to confirm if that's due to nothing coming in on the signal wire.

Was that 109 relay a recall thing? I assume the dealer is the only place to get one?

No recall as far as I know. The grey one says 109 on it also. They are just different color.

http://www.idparts.com/relay-109-a4b4a3-p-350.html

Thanks for the link Jarhead.

An update: No voltage on the signal line so the starter and solenoid are likely good. Seeing as I do have voltage at the Clutch Position Sensor and shorted it does that mean the problem is with the ignition switch? The key goes in and turns fine.

Is there anything else between the CPP and the starter signal line that might be bad? A fuse I've missed? Where does the other end of that signal line go? It disappears into some plastic bundle there at the starter. If I knew where it ended up I could check it for continuity.

Anyone got a schematic for this circuit?

Thanks in advance again guys.

No schematic, but pull the battery and the battery tray. That wire goes under it and it tends to chafe right there.

Hi again,

So I pulled out the signal wire and found it had been rubbed open a bit and figured it was shorting against the solenoid case. I made sure it wasn't touching where it was exposed and still no signal makes it there so that doesn't appear to be the only problem.

I traced it back and it does indeed go under the battery tray but then disappears into a bundle which looks like it's heading for the dash in the car. Is the key and ignition the next stop for this wire? I'm not sure where it ends up.

I'd like to just short the signal line to the battery to force it to start, will that work? Or will I need a resister or something as well to ensure I don't damage that circuit by shorting it directly to the battery?

Thanks again for all the help.

CrossCountryJetta said:

Hi again,

So I pulled out the signal wire and found it had been rubbed open a bit and figured it was shorting against the solenoid case. I made sure it wasn't touching where it was exposed and still no signal makes it there so that doesn't appear to be the only problem.

I traced it back and it does indeed go under the battery tray but then disappears into a bundle which looks like it's heading for the dash in the car. Is the key and ignition the next stop for this wire? I'm not sure where it ends up.

I'd like to just short the signal line to the battery to force it to start, will that work? Or will I need a resister or something as well to ensure I don't damage that circuit by shorting it directly to the battery?

Thanks again for all the help.

Click to expand...

If you apply 12v to that solenoid connection on the starter it will turn the engine over, try not to run yourself over if you're going to do this.

Yup, that will work. But considering that it was shorted to ground, likely something in the path (not sure if fused or not . . . ) failed due to the overcurrent condition. Follow the voltage, young Paduan, and all will become clear where it ceases . . .

Ha ha, yeah for sure. Definitely wouldn't wanna leave it in gear.

So I gave it a try and I got some arcing. Looks like there's a short somewhere else in that circuit too.

I started looking at picking up another old jetta as opposed to pulling this one all apart tracing wires, such a pain when you don't know where they begin and end

Hey FYI . While I was checking relays under dash of my 02, when I pulled relay 53 upper left
(There are 2 of them) . My car was dead on the ignition. Turned the key and nothing. Not even a light on the dash.
Cheers