P204F00 fault, VW has no fix!

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
TDI
2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
I just got a call from VOA about those of us who have had the fix done and are still having problems offering to buy back the vehicle. We'll see what happens.
 

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
TDI
2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
Kerma has the real fix
Probably so

Meanwhile....

I received another call from VOA she said that the offer still stands to buyback my car. Supposedly the fix is stuck with the people in Germany and there is no ETA on it. When I pushed her she said I should be able to pick it up from the dealer acknowledging that there is currently no fix (not that there may not be one in the future) and that I am willing to drive it with the CEL. I also received an e-mail from her with her contact info in case I want to do the buyback.

At this point I will pick it up once I can coordinate that with the dealership. I will probably then work on getting a tune done to deal with the problem once and for all.
 

ssaric1.9TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Location
Atlanta
TDI
2013 VW Passat TDI, 2003 VW Jetta Wagon TDI
Probably so

Meanwhile....

I received another call from VOA she said that the offer still stands to buyback my car. Supposedly the fix is stuck with the people in Germany and there is no ETA on it. When I pushed her she said I should be able to pick it up from the dealer acknowledging that there is currently no fix (not that there may not be one in the future) and that I am willing to drive it with the CEL. I also received an e-mail from her with her contact info in case I want to do the buyback.

At this point I will pick it up once I can coordinate that with the dealership. I will probably then work on getting a tune done to deal with the problem once and for all.
Will you please keep us posted once you get the tune and let us know how it is?
 

bcasmus

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Location
Omaha
TDI
'14 Passat SEL TDI
I am having the exact same problem now with my 2014 Passat. I opted for the fix & payment in August 2017. Drove the car substantially for the first time in November and got no more than 70 miles down the road before the 200 miles till death warning came on. It was thanksgiving and nothing was open, so we opted to drive the car for the long weekend. Despite the CEL light being on, the car did restart even after 400 miles of off and on driving over 4 days. It worked fine except it DRANK fuel. I lost a minimum of 10MPG. Took it into the dealership on Monday and they put a new NOX sensor in and turned it back to me.
Fast forward to this past weekend when we drove the car out of town again, same issue. Took the car in and that is when I learned of this "pending" fix from VW. They offered me nothing - no timeline, no loaner, nothing. I'm suppose to drive from Nebraska to Galveston, TX next month non-stop and I'm thinking I'm basically doomed. Is there anyway for me to reset this piece of garbage on my own?
 

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
TDI
2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
I am having the exact same problem now with my 2014 Passat. I opted for the fix & payment in August 2017. Drove the car substantially for the first time in November and got no more than 70 miles down the road before the 200 miles till death warning came on. It was thanksgiving and nothing was open, so we opted to drive the car for the long weekend. Despite the CEL light being on, the car did restart even after 400 miles of off and on driving over 4 days. It worked fine except it DRANK fuel. I lost a minimum of 10MPG. Took it into the dealership on Monday and they put a new NOX sensor in and turned it back to me.
Fast forward to this past weekend when we drove the car out of town again, same issue. Took the car in and that is when I learned of this "pending" fix from VW. They offered me nothing - no timeline, no loaner, nothing. I'm suppose to drive from Nebraska to Galveston, TX next month non-stop and I'm thinking I'm basically doomed. Is there anyway for me to reset this piece of garbage on my own?
As all of the previous replys say there is nothing that can be done within the VW realm. You can reset the CEL but it will keep coming back. The only potential solution is to tune the ECU and see if that doesn't cause the CEL to go away. I am picking my car up tomorrow and have the tune on order to try.
 

bcasmus

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Location
Omaha
TDI
'14 Passat SEL TDI
As all of the previous replys say there is nothing that can be done within the VW realm. You can reset the CEL but it will keep coming back. The only potential solution is to tune the ECU and see if that doesn't cause the CEL to go away. I am picking my car up tomorrow and have the tune on order to try.
Which tune did you order?
 

d2freeman

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Location
NC
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE
As all of the previous replys say there is nothing that can be done within the VW realm. You can reset the CEL but it will keep coming back. The only potential solution is to tune the ECU and see if that doesn't cause the CEL to go away. I am picking my car up tomorrow and have the tune on order to try.
Keep us informed, in a few more months my warranty is gone and I will be looking for a tune as well. Let us know if it fixes any of the other "fix" issues.
 

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
TDI
2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
Their standard ECU tune, they only have 1 that I saw and they talked about. I've also ordered the DSG tune but am waiting for them to get the unit back before they can ship it to me.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You'll love the car all over again, Bill.

Funny, the EPA pushes for "fixing" the cars to run "cleaner", then in order to get the cars to even work remotely correctly they have to turn to an aftermarket tuner, and I am *pretty sure* they will be "dirtier" than when they left the factory in the first place.

And it isn't just Volkswagen. EPA pushes, the owners push back... harder. :rolleyes:

BTW, the second my SCR/DPF/EGR equipped Sprinter so much as farts, it is all getting deleted too. Not playing that game. I hope it doesn't, but I bet it will.
 

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
TDI
2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
You'll love the car all over again, Bill.

Funny, the EPA pushes for "fixing" the cars to run "cleaner", then in order to get the cars to even work remotely correctly they have to turn to an aftermarket tuner, and I am *pretty sure* they will be "dirtier" than when they left the factory in the first place.

And it isn't just Volkswagen. EPA pushes, the owners push back... harder. :rolleyes:

BTW, the second my SCR/DPF/EGR equipped Sprinter so much as farts, it is all getting deleted too. Not playing that game. I hope it doesn't, but I bet it will.
Yep when I had my '05 F350 PowerStroke dually the first thing I did to it was to do a cat-back delete and install a MBRP dual exhaust (2 - 5" pipes instead of 1 3" pipe) followed by a DiabloSport tune.

Imagine my love when my MPG went up by 2 MPG on the highway while at the same time gaining 100 HP and 250 Ft/Lb of tire burning umph!
 

bcasmus

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Location
Omaha
TDI
'14 Passat SEL TDI
I spoke to VW of America Thursday about a pending fix on these cars. The lady I spoke with was extremely helpful and stated that VW is expected to announce the first full week of March the fix. Nontheless, I've gone ahead and also opted for engine and DSG tuning.
 

Tektdi

New member
Joined
Jan 10, 2017
Location
NY
TDI
Passat TDI SEL 2014
I suspect that this is some sort of software issue owing to differences between the 2015 motor and the 2013-2014 motors. Hopefully the software update fixes this. If it's causing too many problems and people start turning to aftermarket vendors for even dirtier flashes the EPA will probably start aggressively going after the aftermarket tuners.

But honestly if they're still offering you the buyback you might as well just take the big payout and then buy the same car over, the buyout they offered me is more than enough to go buy a newer model with a lot fewer miles on it and still keep a whole bunch of money. It's almost enough to buy two! If you keep an eye on VINs you can probably buy back your actual car when it hits a dealership. I found a 2015 TDI SEL near me for $9000 less than the settlement offer and so far it doesn't seem like anybody with a 2015 is reporting this issue.
 
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TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
TDI
2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
I just wanted to update the group. On 3/1 I used my VCDS to clear all of the codes and then installed KermaTDI's tune. Since then I've put a little over 600 miles on the car and no CELs have been thrown.

I've noticed that it is much easier to spin the wheels now ;) and more mid-range power when I go to pass on the highway. Also it now easily gets over 40MPG at 75MPH when I'm on the hilly interstate here in PA.

Looks like a good option for those that want to take it.
 

ssaric1.9TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Location
Atlanta
TDI
2013 VW Passat TDI, 2003 VW Jetta Wagon TDI
Thank you for the update. Since I deleted the CEL on the 13 Passat back in the beginning of January wife drove it for almost 4k miles and CEL light has not come on. I like the idea of the tune and that just might be the next thing to do. More power and better FE
 

d2freeman

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Location
NC
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE
Did the tune help with the "after fix" stumble issues during the first few miles when cold?
On mine this occurs when the warm-up starts and last for about 2 miles then everything is fine.
 

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
TDI
2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
It seemed to, at least in my case. I haven't noticed the stumbling that was present before.
 

jrm

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Location
Oregon
TDI
2013 Passat SE with nav (totaled)
curious on this tune as well as the post fix has mine running very oddly, one week I will average low 30's MPG and the next week with the same commute I can see high 40's and it gets better mpg in town than the highway on most days??!!
 
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TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
TDI
2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
The tune seems to be great. I don't notice any stumbling or hesitation that others are experiencing. Yesterday I had it on the interstate and was about 40 miles down the road the the computer was reading an average 48+MPG on my trip1 computer. I don't recall ever seeing it that high, and I was not babying it at all.
 

Flyboy777

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Location
Huntsville, Ontario
TDI
2012 VW Passat TDI W DSG
Ok Thanks for everyone’s input on this. I am still within warranty with this one so prefer to keep it stock but this SOUNDS LIKE IT HAS THE POTETIAL OF BECOMING A big hassle. I am thankful for this site because it turns up common problems. I just got the no start countdown last night saying 350 Km to no start (that is 200 miles for my American friends). When I shut down it had 4codes but now there is just one: P204F SCR NOX CATALYST EFFICIENCY BELOW THRESHOLD BANK 1. My handheld DTC reader shows: REDUCTANT SYSTEM PERFORMANCE BANK 1. I certainly do not want to take this in repeatedly to ultimately be told no fix. When I query the dealer (Barrie VW) the service advisor had not heard of this problem. It does not inspire confidence. Part of me wants to get whatever replaced new before my warrantee (emissions) runs out at 196,000 km. (I’m at 180,000 now). In my 2012 dsg Passat there is no countdown so there is no threat of a no start. I would eventually like to do the tune to get rid of the cold stumble start as it is annoying at a stop sign. I will wait till my warrantee runs out in 1/2 year. I’ll probably go to the dealer and leave it with them but I am bracing myself. I love the mileage of this car and the torque but if they can’t fix it I’m going to rip all this crap off and enjoy lots of power and better mileage and say screw it. Any updates on this all has gone quiet on this issue. Any fix yet? Thanks once again everyone.

Flyboy777
 
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BarryMunson

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Location
Cleveland Ohio, U.S. of A.
TDI
2014 Passat tdi SEL
I have noticed comments about this problem popping up when it gets cold. I have had my DEF control module out and checked some connectors with an electric meter. I found the DEF injector feed line heater open circuit (meaning bad). I decided to test if the ECU sees this open circuit. I reset fault codes and unplugged the injector line heater connector. Taking OBD readings again after doing this, I found no indication on my scanner that this was unplugged. This leads me to believe that the ECU does not monitor the injector line heater. So, you can have a bad injector line heater and never know. Not even the VW technicians would know unless the perform an actual ohm reading of that heater. Now, that being said, it stands to reason that you can ADblue cel issues when cold weather hits and never have a resolution from VW dealership. Someone jump in here and comment if they can verify that VCDS can look at this injection line heater because my scanner does not see it through the OBD codes I get.
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Might itmonitor the current when it activates, and detect it then? It's not like the heater will be used much in warm weather . . . .

And frankly, not exactly sure why you are worrying about it . . .
 

BarryMunson

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Location
Cleveland Ohio, U.S. of A.
TDI
2014 Passat tdi SEL
Might itmonitor the current when it activates, and detect it then? It's not like the heater will be used much in warm weather . . . .

And frankly, not exactly sure why you are worrying about it . . .
The heater is a resistive element. It has a resistance when you measure a resistive element. The ECU may measure current when it is active but that does not change the fact that the heater is bad. There will be no current traveling through an open circuit.

I see that you are from Texas. You may not have a concern in your warmer weather but up here in Ohio we get below freezing pretty often. IF the injection delivery line is not heated then flow will be impeded with cold DEF fluid trying to travel through it. Now I don't know what the viscosity characteristics are of Urea but It must get much more viscous when cold.

And, there are a number of complaints about their cars throwing codes like P20EE in when cold weather hits.
 
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tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Congratulations on missing my point, which was that the fault may well be detected when the ECU powers the heater, and sees zero current flow.And that that won't be happening *now*, since it is too warm.

And again, no code means no warranty claim at this time. Wait, let it code, and get it replaced, snd stop screwing with it needlessly . . .

(And my other home is in northern MI, which makes Ohio look like the tropics, so you can jettison that at this point as well . . .)
 

Jordanrctm

New member
Joined
Jun 13, 2018
Location
Devers, Texas
TDI
2014 Passat TDI
I have had my 2014 sel tdi (post emissions update) in for an injector miss that the dealer can’t find after a week. In the winter I had the injector knocking when cold, stumble upon acceleration. After I got it back, the adblue in 200 miles countdown came on with the CEL. The dealer had filled it up right before I left. The light was off the next day. 2000 miles later it is back on with the code P204F and 20553. It is 90 degrees here in Texas.
So now to a dealer with pictures of the dash, codes, and freeze frame data. Hope the message and lights do not go out or they will claim no problem found.
 

IISIlKYII

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2020
Location
Lawrenceville
TDI
2013 Passat SEL
I have the same code and the SAME exact random 200miles displayed.
Basically cleared code, drove it for 40miles or so on highway and it is going through the readiness again resetting itself. Will be contacting Volkswagen tomorrow to see if there’s an official software update to resolve this issue.

Note : as blue was 75% filled . Light came on AFTER driving roughly over 200 miles or so. 264 miles prior day. So this seems to fit in line with long runs or extended mileage. The countdown ad blue has not come on just by making quick low mileage runs.
 

Catbacker

New member
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Location
Salina, KS
TDI
'12 Jetta 6MT Sedan [03 ALH]
Resurrecting this one as my 13 NMS just gave me the 200 mile warning today during my 40 mi commute (one way). Hopped in at lunch and no more def countdown. Same P204F CEL. Anyone have any recent updates?
Anyone actually get bricked out of their car?
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
It will stop running when it hits zero and is turned off. Then no restart. If under the extended emissions warranty the whole system will be replaced under warranty. Should get a loaner too if covered and takes more than 3 hours IIRC.
 

AverageAndy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Location
Phoenix, AZ
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2013 Golf TDI 6MT, 2013 Jetta TDI 6MT (R.I.P.)
This has happened to me twice. Both times when driving up to Flagstaff -low outside temps (30'sF), longer drive (>150miles), high altitude (>6000ft). Both times DEF tank is >50% full. First time I drove to my destination, then next day it started and after driving a bit MIL turned off. Second time kept driving, turning car off and on for a couple of days and >200miles of driving since the warning. The MIL did not turn off, but I did not get bricked out and when I got home, I used a universal scanner to clear code. It hasn't happened since then, but I also haven't gone up north to snowboard since🏂

FYI, I have had the "fixes" of both the software update type and replacing the heater before it happened a second time.
 
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