Upgraded timing belt tensioner on 1Z engine

patricktdi

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Location
Canada
TDI
1992 audi 80
Good morning forum,
Names Patrick, I’m a first timer around here.
Please forgive me if posting in wrong spot etc.
I have a 1992 Audi 80 1.9 tdi with a 1Z engine I believe.
I have 2 problems to sort out.
First is that since this is a eurpean vehicle imported from Germany, getting parts is miserable in Canada. I cross over to a 97 Jetta with a 1Z. Unfortunately they are not EXACTLY the same.
How do I tell exactly what model engine I have ? Everything is in German in this car.
I’m trying to buy timing Belt parts. The 97 Jetta uses a tensioner with a drive dog to lock. My Audi has the same style tensioner but instead of a drive dog it has a flat bar with a slot sticking out the hooks on a post coming off the engine. Can I use either tensioner in my car or do I need the right one? I’m assuming both are compatible but I can’t be sure until my car in a million pieces ...

Also Curious if I can post pics to help you out.

Thanks y’all
Patrick
 
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Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
I have never used any tools on my 1.9 1Z tentioner. Just a long flat bar with a small rag over the end, inserted against the arm and pulley and then lift it back.
 

patricktdi

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Location
Canada
TDI
1992 audi 80
Thanks for the reply, but I am referring to the SYLE of tensioner. One has a tab on the back that clicks into a hole in the motor cover. The other style has a 4” piece of flat bar sticking out the side with a slot in it. It hooks on a post coming out of the motor.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
We got very few cars in the US with the early longitudinal mounted TDI engines. In fact prior to to 2004 there were only four cars imported with the engine in that configuration, the four 1998 Passat TDI demo cars that toured the US prior to VW's (poor) decision to not import the B5 TDI.

At any rate I don't believe we got any that have the tensioner you're talking about.

This is the style of tensioner that we commonly use on the 1Z/AHU engines in the US. The metal finger fits into the hole that you mentioned. The part number for this one is: 028109243E, 028109243F



I think the one you're talking about is this one? The part number on this particular one is 028109243B but it could be others as well.



Based on what I can find this tensioner is specific to Audi and was not used on any of the tdi cars brought to the US in the 90's. I would guess if you cannot adapt that first style tensioner to your car that you will have to order these from someone abroad, that is unless you can get your local Audi dealer to order them in for you, which would likely be expensive.

If it were me I would order in four or five of these from the EU, depending on how long you plan on keeping your car. That is if I couldn't adapt the VW AHU/1Z tensioner to your engine.

If you have your engine timing components dismantled you could snap a few photos and link to them here so we could see what's going on.

As for the belt you might be able to use the same as the Mk3 or B4 US tdi but I can't say that for certain until I see pictures of your engine. As far as telling what engine you have there should be a flat surface just below the coolant flange mounted on the cylinder head that has the engine code information. It's the flange that points to the driver fender, not the one that points back toward the passenger cabin. Use a wire brush on that flat area and you should be able to make out the three digit code.

For parts that need to be identified but are in German online translator is your best friend!!

One final thought, as far as I know the earliest TDI engine was from 1993, in the VW Golf, in Europe. I have to wonder whether the engine in your car is actually a TDI engine or whether it's the earlier IDI engine. If your car is a type 8C then there were both IDI and TDI engines, but when the TDI actually started getting installed is something I cannot say.

Hope this helps


Steve
 
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Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
OHHHHHH, for some retarded reason i read in my mind as a belt tensioner, and did not see timing belt.

YES, get the right tool. 100% worth it. i have made 2 of them from scrap parts and it did not work nearly as well as the right tool.
Sorry, DONT TAKE A FLAT BAR TO IT LOL
 

patricktdi

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Location
Canada
TDI
1992 audi 80
Steve Addy,

Everything you mentioned is bang on. I purchased the standard North American tensioner but I have the 2nd one like you posted. Looks like I’ll be ordering a complete kit from eBay uk.

I’m impressed how you knew my engine with longitudinal!!!!! How did you know ?
It has many service advantages in maintainence compared to my AAZ

The car does have a computer, check engine light, and a tdi logo on the back.

Still not sure how to post pictures.

Bought car at 285k and now at 375k. Timing belt should be done every 60k correct?
What’s about the roller and tensioner?

Much appreciate.

Patrick
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
I see no reason why the US tensioner couldn’t be used. If the tab just locks into a hole, drill a hole in the backing plate, if you have the room.

-Todd
 

patricktdi

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Location
Canada
TDI
1992 audi 80
I have about 3 inches between the timing assembly and the rad fans.
It looks like the rad assembly will come out with not too much grief.
I think I’ll just get the complete proper kit. Getting fed up with making custom parts or modifying Jetta or golf ones to “work” haha
With my luck the roller and belt might be different a tad too.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
I have about 3 inches between the timing assembly and the rad fans.
It looks like the rad assembly will come out with not too much grief.
I think I’ll just get the complete proper kit. Getting fed up with making custom parts or modifying Jetta or golf ones to “work” haha
With my luck the roller and belt might be different a tad too.
Patrick
I know these things because I've spent a lot of time with my head in parts catalogs and just reading, not that it's done me much good, it's all just hobby here, but I have been a big follower of the 'B' chassis cars for many years, starting with the B1/B2 Audi / VW and continuing on with the Audi B3 and separate VW B3 and B4. I know some things about the B5 VW (very close to your engine setup) but not a lot.

At any rate, there is scant information in the parts catalog relating to the early 90's Audi diesel powered cars, in fact I can't even find a possible engine code, but since these engines are basically just the AHU / 1Z turned 90 degrees, many of the things you might need can be acquired from the Mk3 Jetta TDI or the B4 Passat TDI despite the fact that the engine sits differently.

Having said that I think you need to explore further to make sure that your VW AHU/1Z tensioner will not work. I would not be surprised to find a slot in the front of the engine (and metal cover) that would allow the use of that tensioner. But if it does not you should order them up from abroad, at least 2-3 so you have them if necessary.

Aside from the difference in tensioner I will say that the timing belts and upper belt roller will likely be identical with the US Jetta / Passat. In this I have to agree with Todd. The core engine itself is no different than the AHU/1Z so the belt will be the same 137 tooth belt. I have no reason to believe that the roller won't be the same either. There would be only one situation where that's not the case and that would be if you have a timing belt driven water pump, which I doubt you do. A photo will prove that one way or the other.

And the reason I can say that the parts are likely the same with some certainty is because there is an example I can look at that will shed some light on parts you may need to buy. That car, although not really imported into the US, is the 1998 Passat TDI. There were four of these brought to the US as demo cars and then VW pulled the plug on importing the model. The parts catalog still shows everything for these 98 tdi cars even though we never got them.

The 1998 Passat shares the same longitudinal engine layout with the Audi and was equipped with the AHU, AFN, AHH and AVG TDI engines (maybe others too), so we know that most likely they're identical to what Audi was installing in their cars (that were being sold in Europe). They are several years newer but the engine tech is likely the same.

When I compare part numbers between the 1998 Passat tdi and the 1997 Jetta tdi or 1997 Passat tdi I see the same items being used, the same tensioner, roller and timing belt. So aside from the fact that your car used the Audi-only tensioner I would expect that most everything else will work. In fact if you could find a part number on your timing belt or the tensioner roller somewhere I'm sure it would the same as the cars we get here in the US.

Somewhere there is instructions on posting photos in the forum, off hand I don't recall where that is. If you have an image hosting account somewhere you can just link to those photos in this thread.

Since your car is closer to the 1998 Passat TDI you might find some information of value in the B5 forum. One of those four 98 Passat TDI's is owned by a member of that forum, JFettig (IIRC) and there are numerous photos of the engine in that car that should look pretty familiar. I will say though he has a very off water pump on his car, but I don't know what is engine code is. He's also modified that car heavily but there's a quite long thread in that forum that discusses his car.

As for the space limitations on the front of the engine you should be fine with just removing the coolant fans in order to change the timing belt. It doesn't take much space and I don't think the front engine mount is in the way so it should be pretty easy chore!

Hope this helps and sorry for being long-winded. Oh yes, timing belt at 60k, tensioner and roller usually at the same time but I have skipped a belt change sometimes too. The tensioner / roller makers have said there's no reason to change one out unless you believe that they're starting to fail. A new one is not a guarantee that it won't fail. Also be sure that the tensioner is of good quality. I think everyone here uses a Litens brand tensioner which is what the factory installed. And I'm going to agree with Todd about the tensioner, I would bet there's a hole behind the metal timing belt inner shield that the finger from the VW tensioner will fit into. I will snap a photo showing where it is likely to be, you can pull back the shield and see for yourself.

Steve
 
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Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Here's JFettig's 1998 Passat TDI engine bay, however it does have a lot of mods. It should look pretty familiar.

The thread that talks about this rare B5 Passat is here if you want to see it. This link will dump you out at the most recent page.

PS - Col Sanders (prior B4 tdi owner) just finished an Audi A4 tdi conversion, so his would also be similar as well.

Steve

 
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Col Sanders

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Location
Illinois
TDI
97 B4 Green And it's Possessed 2001 Audi A4 AFN SWAP
Steve is a wealth of info on all things TDI. He helps me immensely. No more B4 here. I drive my A4 TDI with a AFN engine. Probably looks like your engine. Shoot Frans at Dutch Auto Parts. com a message. Go to his web site, he will know exactly what you have and need. I purchased all my parts for the conversion from him. Steve kelp me on track all the way through my conversion. Some things on yours are EU only. Water pump, serpentine belt tensioner etc. Have fun, Col.
 

0die

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Location
corpus christi, tx
TDI
1996 Passat wagon B4V
I have an early VIN# 1996 Z1 Passat....

what I have found is that there are 2 different styles of tensioner on that Z1. For the Passat (US spec at least) there was a 1996 mid-year tensioner change...early VIN #s have the "non automatic" tensioner (you manually set the tension, it does not have an internal spring to maintain correct tension).

late 1996 VIN #s got the newer style auto tensioner...

BUT.....the tensioner mounting stud is also different...one was a single size (10mm I believe) and the other was 10mm/8mm (different size on each end)...or something like that

You can use either tensioner on the Z1, but you need the stud to match as well...the block already has the hole for the tab on the newer tensioner.

I just changed my stud and tensioner to the newer style.

Now if that also applies to your 1992 Z1 AUDI I don't know...but I'm guessing you have the older style manual tensioner and when you try shopping 1997 Z1 parts you get the newer style tensioner...If that is the case just go to a VW dealer and order the newer tensioner stud and you should be set with the upgraded tensioner.
 

iluvmydiesels

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
as long as you can 'snap off' timing belt cover, and w/o moving anything at the radiator, slide the cover out. it should in the center have some plastic? screw, or fastener, i end up discarding that. slide cover out easily.
like todd posted (up^) if you can find some way to 'notch' or drill in -inner (metal) timing cover, (std tensioner, like in pic in post above^^) perhaps there is a picture in the shop manual, its always good to have one. (bentley).
other than that, should have at least 2 oil seals ready, i prefer silly-cone, the one takes a special o-ring. a third *may be needed, come in handy. depending on the crank one's condition. this one needs a gasket. -other parts may come up, such as valve cover gasket, pan gasket, etc.
other than that, assorted tools, if you so happen to have the ability, & guts to be able to do your own t-belt. i dont know if on this site theres an 'official' timing thread, (mechanical, that is). the other thing is the vcds, to finish, fine tune job(pump),(-electrical, ecm).
gl. got some pics of that set-up?
i believe theres info on posting pics. perhaps in general topics, try search.

-almost forgot the water pump, and such things as new coolant. use only the right stuff. mines red, VW stuff. belt(s) and such, <serpentine & perhaps a v-belt, if you have one.
 
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