if you were going to install gauges whats your top three most important gauges?

im going to get some gauges put in my automatic tdi with various mods......im thinking three gauges will do it...whats the top three to do gauges out there?

From most important to least, in my opinion:

1. Boost pressure gauge.

2. Exhaust gas temperature (EGT) gauge.

3. Oil temperature gauge.

i like the boost gauge and the temp gauge ive heard both are very useful...but why do i need the exhaust temp gauge for go faster?

thanks for your feed back

most important is the egt guage and do i pre turbo..that tels you how hard you can keep running your engine and when to back off..espsecailly when you start doing crazy injectors and pumps..boost guage is also a really good one, to see the load you are getting..and i like a oil pressure guage..those would be my top 3 ..if i was gonna do 2 more it would be oil temp and volts...that what i can keep a idea whats going on.. im going to do the 3 in the cubby hole with the block off din plate..and i want to run the 2 others in custom made pods that go on either side of the instrument cluster..i think i saw that custom home made setup on vw vortex or was it here?..any one know the one i'm talking about ?..and if you do .do you know where to find it again?..thanks
deo
\x/ hillfolk!

Pyrometer for EGT's
Boost
Oil Pressure
Oil Temperature

I purchased the following five VDO Vision Series gauges from www.eGauges.com : 800-303-6211
See also http://www.egauges.com/vdo_bld.asp?Series=Vision

They are listed in order of priority and how they're positioned closest to the driver (thanks to drivbywire for help with the engine and gauge install):

1. Electrical 250*F. to 1650*F. Pyrometer: 2 1/16" Part No: 310-153 @ $153.75 and includes the expensive $87.00 gauge, plus stainless steel braided lines and wiring kit. Sensor mounted (as a Turbine Inlet Temperature sensor - TIT) in the Exhaust Manifold between the #2 & #3 exhaust ports so it will provide and ACCURATE EGT before the turbo.

2. Mechanical 0 to 30 PSI Boost only (no Hg. vacuum): 2 1/16" Part No: 150-104 @ $29.25 - need to also order tubing & wiring kit, since VDO generally does not include any accessories with their gauges. Boost Sensor is mounted on the top portion of the Intake Manifold right above the #2 & #3 intake ports, but before air from the 4 cylinders combines into one bottle neck. In essence, the sensor taps into the Intake where the upper intake neck mounts to the main portion of the manifold. A small see-through Fram Fuel Filter is used as an expansion chamber to prevent Boost Gauge rattles by breaking up the sound waves derived from the high-spinning turbine blades.

3. Electrical 0 to 100 PSI Engine Oil Pressure: 2 1/16" Part No: 350-106 @ $27.38 - need to order separate wiring kit and sender. Sender is mounted on the left side of the OEM Oil Filter Cannister towards the bottom. A small plug will need to be removed for the sensor to easily be fitting as close to the engine's oil galleys or oil pump as possible. Pressure reading is before oil travels through the filter.

4. Electrical 0 to 300*F. Engine Oil Temperature: 2 1/16" Part No: 310-106 @ $27.38 - need to order separate wiring kit and sender, with sending unit being the exact same M14 X 1.5mm threads the OEM Oil Pan Drain Plug is. Naturally, sensor takes the place of my OEM Drain Plug; I've ordered a couple of sensors as spares just in case there is a problem down the road.

5. Underhood Hour Meter to measure time on new engine: 2 1/16 Part No: 331-151 @ $27.75 - no kit needed, just run positive wire to Injection Pump's Shutoff Switch and the other lead to a safe ground.

Steve

It has been my experience that you only need an 80 psi oil pressure gauge because there is a relief valve built into the filter bracket that opens at something like 76 psi. I have never seen it go above that (approximately).

It has also been my experience that the drain plug sensor has too few threads and that the oil pan threads can be stripped out pretty easily (and which the dealer did for me, but it coulda been anyone.)

[ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: VelvetFoot ]</p>

The Oil Pressure Relief Valve on my new engine appears to open at almost 80 PSI. I'm glad things just barely worked out with the 0 - 80 gauge and surprisingly, purchasing the 0 - 100 unit wouldn't have been a bad idea either. Sending unit replaces a small plug at the bottom left-hand side of the Oil Filter Canister, where it measures pressure right after the Oil Pump, but before flowing through the Filter Cartridge and onto the turbo.

The new engine's main journal bearings seem to be nice and tight, resulting in very good oil pressure in the 70 PSI range when crusing at 80 MPH.

Oil pressure at an idle with temps at 220*F. are in the 18 - 19 PSI range.

I watch the EGT's now like a hawk and use it as a barometer for when it's safe to turn the engine off. It's amazing that EGT's can drop from 1,000 PSI fairly quickly, but the oil temperature remains at 220*F. - not budging an inch during the cooldown process. Conversely, EGT's rise in a hurry under engine load or during acceleration, with 650*F. being the average exhaust temp when cruising at 80 MPH on flat ground with boost in the 3 - 4 PSI range.

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: Turbo Steve ]</p>

P.S.

Overtightening of the Oil Pan Drain Plug threads is common because VWAG suggests only 14 - 16 ft. pounds and this isn't much.

I've purchased a couple of extra $10.00 Oil Temperature Sensors which are copper. These magnetic M14 X 1.5mm Sensors also double as Drain Plugs just in case I ever need to replace a well-worn sending unit.

the top three look pretty aparent...so my next question is where can i get a 1,2,3pod pillar for my 2000 bora and or the din blocking style pod w/2or 3

Boost
EGT
Oil sump temperature

After that:

Coolant temperature
Oil pressure

-mickey

www.egauges.com Everything you need, including pods.

-mickey

I had never dealt with E-Gauges before until Mickey pointed me in their direction. Service was excellent and they know exactly what supplementary items you'll need with each gauge.

Keep in mind that VDO is a superior product to Autometer and that VDO generally does not include a multitute of extra items with each gauge. Autometer sometimes does include the full kit, but not always.

I have an (extra) new VDO 0 - 30 Boost gauge for sale if anyone wants it for $29.99 including shipping to your front door.

rabittree, this the post you're talking about?
Custom Gauge Setup. I have kept this one on hold for when i get a couple more gauges, i love the look

Hmm...I'd want EGT, Boost, and Transmission temp, but maybe that's from hanging out on the TDR site reading the woes of those owning auto transmissions behind a Cummins. Is the VW auto that bulletproof???
Rodg

Out of curiousity, how good of cooling does a VW auto transmission have?

Anyone know, Pete?

Since heat is the #1 destroyer of automatic transmissions, you can never have enough cooling power.

Steve, just like you can never have enough air flowing through the intake - sorry couldn't resist

===

About the gauges. . . I got thinking last night driving home - Boost,

do we really NEED that guage? EGT, oil temp, maybe oil pressure . . .

Boost is ECU limited regardless of the engine design as long as the engine can reliably determine boost, ie don't even think about messing with where the IAT/MAF is plugged in. It'll show you stuff but it won't tell you if the engine is gonna blow unless you have modified the engine to the point where the computer doesn't know what is going on. By the time you see the boost on the gauge - too late.

Sure the gauge is pretty damn cool to watch and all that - but it doesn't give you anything more than Vag-Com can give you, although it does give it to you all the time - but . . . conditions aren't gonna change much and if you don't have a vag-com, money invested in making your own or buying Uwe's is much better spend than on a boost gauge.

Oil Temp, that is something you can't get off of the computer and something that should be monitored that can't be other wise.

EGTs - very important if you have more than one mod. Critical almost. esp now that I have seen heat deformation on an inconel turbine out of a TDI . . . .

Heck Cylinder head temp probably is more improtant than Boost.

What it comes down to though:

What do YOU want? And What do you NEED?

thanks pcolatdi!!! that was exactly the post o was thinking of!..cool i thought it was on vortex..ha and heck i even did a search here too but nothing turned up.
thanks again
Deo
\x/ hillfolk!

GeWilli:

My boost runs so low that it pretty much is just an indicator of a major problem about to develop with the turbo.

If your pressures went wild, you'd at least have a little warning to hopefully save your engine, but EGT and Engine Temperature, as you mentioned, should take-up more of the driver's viewing time.

Is this the site you are talking about? This seems like the best install place, although it is not in direct eyeline. autofacture

mies that is the exact one,thanks.

just for looks i like the air and fuel ratio gauge. does that work in a tdi?

Gewilli, just to clarify TIT not EGT is the way to go. TIT is the only thing that will prevent those melted turbine wheels you talk about

If I had to choose it would be:

For a chipped car:
-TIT
-Oil Temp
-boost

For a chipped car with .205's:
-TIT
-Oil Temp
-Boost

Beyond .205's including the 11mm:
-TIT
-Oil temp
-Boost


Oil pressure is controlled mechanicly with a pressure relief spring thuys it's nothing you can control so why monitor it.

Boost you can control, with your foot that it. So yes I see a reason to watch this and in the long run it can be a good indicator of a dirty air filter when you start seeing higher TIT's with the same level of bbost pressure

Oil temp in my opinion is an excellent way to to determine when it's safe to push the car when starting off in the day. Also it can tell you when your truly approaching the heat absorbtion limits of the internal cooling system (oil). Again You can control oil temperature byt simply backing off the power.

If you want to get crazy with gauges hook up an EGT in addition to the TIT so you can read the temp drop accross the turbine. Also hook a a P/R gauge to read in real time how hard the turbo is pumping and the efficiency.

While your at it hook up a coolant pressure gauge and a coolant inlet and a coolant outlet gauge. This way you can measure the temp of the coolant going into the engine verses the coolant going out and determine the work load on the engine.

Of course while you have all these gauges how are you going to drive the car? Pretty soon your going to need an oiler to ride along with you in the passenger seat to monitor the cars systems .

DB

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by GeWilli:

EGTs - very important if you have more than one mod. Critical almost. esp now that I have seen heat deformation on an inconel turbine out of a TDI . . . .
<hr></blockquote>

You have seen this? Not refering to the famous Turbo Steve engine are you, now you are supposing that it had heat damage as well? Too funny. You and Pete are getting your money's worth on that engine to support every flaky idea you have. Forget the EGT, you will never get the auto to the point where you need it. BG has taken this engine further than anyone else, he has an EGT guage, it's never been a concern.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by valois:


You have seen this? Not refering to the famous Turbo Steve engine are you, now you are supposing that it had heat damage as well? Too funny.

You and Pete are getting your money's worth on that engine to support every flaky idea you have. Forget the EGT, you will never get the auto to the point where you need it. BG has taken this engine further than anyone else, he has an EGT guage, it's never been a concern.<hr></blockquote>

Rene I suppose that you looked at this stuff under an SEM and even performed the spectroanalysis to detemrine the melting points of the particular alloy we observed. But then again what does a materials engineer know about anything (I am not regferring to Gewilli or myself).

I suppose that air leak you keep describing in Turbo Steves engine is the cause of the 50 micron particle(s) getting through and smashing the compressor blades also? I talked to Turbo Steve about that and it turns out there was a small tear in the Piper Cross panel about 1" in length inside the stock airbox. I am still trying to figure out how the multitude of particles can be attracted to that little 1" crack in the elements seal despite all that low restriction surface area, Don't worry We have the torn filter element along with all the other Frankenstien mods so We know what was going on in this engine.

DB

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Drivbiwire ]</p>

Pete as I told Gewilli, you cannot use this engine as evidence of anything, you have absolutely no idea what was done to it, your suppositions as to excessive boost are ludicrous, attepting to use it as a control study is about as funny as the cam pictures.

TIT - EGT whatever I meant TIT

and Valois - acutally yeah we have documented proof of heat damamge to a turbine and yeah it is the famous grenaded engine. And well the few people that have seen the images and actually have been told what was actually done to the engine completely - makes sense.

Yes the Turbine exhibits heat damage. And I think BG is doing a couple things differently than Steve did. I still won't make the images public but I'll email you the link valois.

I maintain that the TIT is a better gauge of things . . . but hey what ever - it isn't my car

Facts are the facts, if the turbine melted it melted and we are going to find out why.

DB

Here's the bombfire additive cocktail I was and still am adding to Amoco's PowerBlend this fall:

* 4-oz of SoyShield BioDiesel #139 Additive
* 4-oz of inexpensive synthetic 2-Cycle Injector Oil (100% ashless) to lube the pump
* 8-oz of Power Service's Diesel Kleen
* 3-oz of AMSOIL's Cetane Boost

With temps dropping below freezing this week, I am also incorporating 8-oz's of Power Service's Arctic Express AntiGel into the mix as well. This is PS's product with very high concentrations of antigel chemicals and is a little hard to find at most retailers.

Steve, comment: PS Diesel Kleen already boosts cetane by 6 points. What do you hope to achieve by adding Amspoil Cetane Boost other than watch $$$ go down the drain??

Also, PS Diesel Kleen also DOESN'T have the antigel like Supplement does. And with your adding Arctic Express, are you planning to drive up to Alaska which you haven't told anyone about?? Maryland doesn't get THAT cold. Be nice to your car, but don't waste your money.

Double dose on the PS Diesel Supplement and you won't lose ANY benefit of all the above you're currently adding COMBINED.


Respectfully

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: tdimeister ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Turbo Steve:
Here's the bombfire additive cocktail I was and still am adding to Amoco's PowerBlend this fall:

* 4-oz of SoyShield BioDiesel #139 Additive
* 4-oz of inexpensive synthetic 2-Cycle Injector Oil (100% ashless) to lube the pump
* 8-oz of Power Service's Diesel Kleen
* 3-oz of AMSOIL's Cetane Boost

With temps dropping below freezing this week, I am also incorporating 8-oz's of Power Service's Arctic Express AntiGel into the mix as well. This is PS's product with very high concentrations of antigel chemicals and is a little hard to find at most retailers.<hr></blockquote>

Steve why don't you just use 16oz of straight power service? All that stuff is not really doing anything except requiring you to burn less diesel as a function of displacing diesel fuel from the tank.

At least its' safe to say you won't hurt anything with all that stuff in the tank

DB