Starting a TDI in Extremely Cold Weather

If your battery is in good shape you will be fine. The biggest help to getting a cold diesel started is to leave the starter cranking(hold the key in the crank position) until you are sure the motor is running fast enough to keep running on its own. That very 1st firing is your best bet to getting it running.

The ALH motors were tested in interior Alaska for cold weather startability - the modern CRs should be much better.

In addition to the good battery - make sure you have the SPECIFIED 5wxX oil for your car (none of that 15wxX stuff).

While there isn't provision for a "blockheater" - over several years there has been an aftermarket "Frostheater" that is an electric coolant heater, and you used to be able to find fuel powered heaters (have no idea if you can find them for the CR's - it's a whole new ballgame with regards to tight-spacing). Webasto or Esper are the brands (I think) for them.

Proper fuel (local for your conditions) and/or properly treated fuel is also necessary - If I'm roadtripping in the winter, going from warmer area to colder - make sure you fillup with local fuel before shutting down for the night. Really important when you can go 600-700 miles on a tank (like I can in my 2000 NB).

No Blockheater? Both my 2005 and 2010 have dealer installed blockheaters. The 2010 has one that must be designed by a German engineer. It has a dedicated cord with a special plug to the car and a rubber o-ring to seal it up properly when connected, plus the car has a spring loaded cover which keeps grime out of the socket when not connected. I better never lose the cord.

Haven't had to start out TDI in really cold weather all the times we've owned it, but I've had experience with a 220D, 240D and now 3 diesel tractors.

One really important thing on all the above vehicle engines was to apply about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle. You, of course, let up on the throttle once the engine gets going and is at least near or just above normal idle speed. You need this in really cold weather. Otherwise, they'll generally start and die a few times before going. Apply some throttle and glow them right, turn the key, and they'll start the normal 1/2 turn or so of the crank. Jettas always took more turns to start than any other diesels we've had. VW may have put some turns in there on purpose (in computer) to get the oil going. They're so conservative on everything (except that business of messing with the NOx testing).

I started my 2009 yesterday morning. it was -11 f.

waited for glow plugs, gave it a couple second crank, stopped, off and on, wait for glow plugs, and then cranked. took 15 or 20 seconds of cranking, slow at first, then faster.

when it did fire, the computer increased idle to around 1400 rpm for almost a minute.

(and for reference, a day after it was ten below with 30 mph winds, 30 degrees feels like springtime.)

meerschm said:

I started my 2009 yesterday morning. it was -11 f.

waited for glow plugs, gave it a couple second crank, stopped, off and on, wait for glow plugs, and then cranked. took 15 or 20 seconds of cranking, slow at first, then faster.

when it did fire, the computer increased idle to around 1400 rpm for almost a minute.

(and for reference, a day after it was ten below with 30 mph winds, 30 degrees feels like springtime.)

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Something is wrong. It shouldn't take that much cranking to start if it's cranking fast enough and the GPs are doing their job. Instead of giving it a second glow cycle, try watching the interior lights dim during the first preglow and watch for them to brighten up about 10 seconds after the GP light goes out. Then hit the starter as soon as the interior lights brighten back up, indicating that the GPs finally turned off. The GPs will be plenty hot from the extended glow time and you only have the starter load on the battery. If you crank it as soon as the GP light goes out, the GPs are still on and you will have the GP load AND starter load on the battery and it won't crank as well.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5201566&postcount=21

Thanks,

the previous time I had to start it at ten below the car was on its first winter. while I plan to keep the car and go for the fix, not sure I will have another chance to test it out. may be another 8 years.

I could also watch the voltage on my PF03.



I took a shot a bit after starting. (idle had reduced some at this point)

next one is later it the day; wanted to note the charging voltage in the cold. idle increase is from my foot.

Replacement Battery

What would be the best replacement battery for an '03 Golf? Is Bosch an option?

In the past, it has been the group 94R battery available from the dealer. Now - you still need a 94R or Group 48 (H6) battery. source / brand - really doesn't matter - but make sure it has at least 72 Amp-Hr capacity.

Wilkins said:

No Blockheater? Both my 2005 and 2010 have dealer installed blockheaters.

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I realize this is just semantics, but I'd bet you that you have coolant heaters installed. From the ALH forward, none of the blocks had freeze plugs so there isn't a way to install a traditional block heater.

Yup, just nitpicking semantics. The freeze plug block heaters also heat the coolant. You'll find a plethora of references to the frostheater as a block heater.

Also, while there may not be freeze plugs (or core plugs if you must), there probably is a threaded port somewhere that will accept an oem heating element.

RalphVa said:

Haven't had to start out TDI in really cold weather all the times we've owned it, but I've had experience with a 220D, 240D and now 3 diesel tractors.

One really important thing on all the above vehicle engines was to apply about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle. You, of course, let up on the throttle once the engine gets going and is at least near or just above normal idle speed. You need this in really cold weather. Otherwise, they'll generally start and die a few times before going. Apply some throttle and glow them right, turn the key, and they'll start the normal 1/2 turn or so of the crank. Jettas always took more turns to start than any other diesels we've had. VW may have put some turns in there on purpose (in computer) to get the oil going. They're so conservative on everything (except that business of messing with the NOx testing).

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Tdi's are drive by wire so applying part throttle doesn't work in this situation .

Great check list, thank you for all of your time and efforts! :{)

I happened to watch a bunch of cold start videos on youtube (addictive stuff) and noticed that Dodge pickups are pretty bad at starting in cold weather!!
In some videos you can even see green grass around the truck so it's not even very cold, but still they are very unhappy.
Why is that?

nokivasara said:

I happened to watch a bunch of cold start videos on youtube (addictive stuff) and noticed that Dodge pickups are pretty bad at starting in cold weather!!
In some videos you can even see green grass around the truck so it's not even very cold, but still they are very unhappy.
Why is that?

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Rather than having glow plugs directly in the cylinder heads, Cummins engines use a grid heater in the intake plumbing. This grid heater heats the air going into the engine as opposed to the glow plugs, which provide a hot surface directly in the cylinder to facilitate combustion. Heating the air is less effective at facilitating combustion than the hot surface is, hence the extra effort required to get them going in the cold.

Oh, I see, it's the old "hold a burning paper at the intake" trick. But fancier!

Edit: Now that I think of it they probably unplug the gridheaters or glowplugs in many of those videos.

MacGyver said:

Run appropriate oil too. Like the Petro Canada 0W30 stuff. You don't wanna be trying to pump 15W40 dino around at -30*C in these engines...

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I must be noted that 15w40 dino oil is not suitable for any TDI after '99 under any circumstances, let alone in extremely cold weather. And it is probably a bad idea for any TDI pre '99 as well, even in the summer.

I have an 01 Cummins and would have to say they start better than a Powerstroke in the cold. I can't comment for a Duramax in that year range. Both Powerstroke and Duramax use glow plugs like our tdi's. Cummins uses a grid heater which is just a heating element mounted right before the intake manifold splits to the 6 individual cylinders. It heats the air entering the cylinders, not a heating element in each individual cylinder.

My two friends have 7.3L Fords and they start getting harder to start below freezing. My Cummins has always started without being plugged in even in the -F temps. A little slow to come up on idle when really cold but always fired the first time. Powerstroke also uses a high pressure oil pump to fire their injectors so when cold the oil is thicker. Look up HEUI if you want to read on it.

Glow plugs need replaced after time as well. The grid heater on my Cummins is oem, but also doesn't see the extremes of being inside the cylinder.

-didn't see the previous posts for some reason but still my reply...

....on the WW II Russian front, a bonfire under the exposed (shrouding removed) aircraft engine allowed USSR aircraft to take off for missions - - - (while the Luftwaffe
was essentially unable to get airborne.

The temperatures were unbelievable during this conflict.

ez

ezshift5 said:

....on the WW II Russian front, a bonfire under the exposed (shrouding removed) aircraft engine allowed USSR aircraft to take off for missions - - - (while the Luftwaffe
was essentially unable to get airborne.

The temperatures were unbelievable during this conflict.

ez

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Yeah, I'm sure that's common practise around the world in cold places, my dad was a logger and had to start the day by making a fire to warm up the chain and chain oil, otherwise the risk of it breaking was pretty big.

I had to test my Skoda today, it was -16C and that damn thing only glowed the plugs for 2-3 sec. I wasn't ready to turn the key until a sec or 2 later
It fired right up and idled very steadily and without smoke.
I bet the cool crowd of youtube has unplugged their grid heaters for the show

I like the idea of a grid heater, simple design and no broken plugs that can fall in to the cylinders...

nokivasara said:

I had to test my Skoda today, it was -16C and that damn thing only glowed the plugs for 2-3 sec. I wasn't ready to turn the key until a sec or 2 later
It fired right up and idled very steadily and without smoke.

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I envy you. It's -16C in Slovakia as well, but when mine started up it was making a hell of a noise, and after a minute I shut it back off. I just stuck a space heater in the engine bay to warm things up and then I'm going to try starting it again and check timing with VCDS and in the meanwhile check if there's not water in the fuel filter frozen or something. :-(

It is the feast of Epiphany today, but looks like we aren't going to church.

freedomlives said:

I envy you. It's -16C in Slovakia as well, but when mine started up it was making a hell of a noise, and after a minute I shut it back off. I just stuck a space heater in the engine bay to warm things up and then I'm going to try starting it again and check timing with VCDS and in the meanwhile check if there's not water in the fuel filter frozen or something. :-(
It is the feast of Epiphany today, but looks like we aren't going to church.

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Ouch, hope you get it going!
We had - 28°C this morning. The block heater is a nice thing to have, I won't start it without heating but I'm sure it would start OK.

Waiting for the battery to fully recharge while letting that space heater warm things up. It has been a bit hard starting all winter, I should have investigated sooner on a "warm" day when its just 1C or -1C...

Hmm... didn't help, wasn't warm enough for VCDS to check timing, and when I put it into reverse (to be able to pull the other car out) the engine immediately died. Neighbor helped me pull/push it out of the way, and in warm weather I'll look at it again. In 2012, during another big, though even colder, freeze, the timing belt tensioner came undone (largely because it was the wrong one, put in by previous owner). I trust the mechanic who fixed it put in the right one, but I don't trust that he used a torque wrench to tighten it down, because I did catch him tightening something else without a torque (he claimed his muscles could feel the right torque...).
Now when I popped the upper timing belt cover and push down, i can press the timing belt a few mm away from the idler pulley/roller on the top. I seem to recall the belt being tighter when I've checked it in the past. Looks like my Octavia is going to be out of service till things warm up in March here. :-( At least the wife's Alfa Romeo is working...

I have an 09 Jetta that has started very readily and reliably down to -25f so far. I turn on the key, wait for the glow plug light to go out, and turn the key. Has started everytime with no fanfare and no strange noises or misfires, It does seem to idle just a little rougher for a few seconds at first but that is all.
I park my poor little Jetta next to my neighbor's Dodge pickup that he has stretched a cord out to and it has been plugged in overnight every night since like November. I don't have anything I could plug in if I wanted to.

ZigZag said:

Nice work on the checklist ...

Too bad they never made a TDI Champ... or a TDI Cub perhaps.

[ April 07, 2001: Message edited by: ZigZag ]

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They sure as hell DID! The Mk1 (A1) Rabbit and Jetta IDI TDIs were just that - incredibly simple, cheap and reliable.

AND: you could solo it from the front seat!

Smurfer Girl's B7 (her other car is a blue NA Miata) is over here, and at -33 this morning, it would not go. Nothing to plug in, so I will have to deal with that before she takes it home. Very surprised, as our ALH has started down to -42C unplugged when newish (as is the B7). Weakness seems to be in battery, so I will use a silicone pad (preferred) or blanket (if there is room in the box) and think about an oil warmer. Since it will be a buy-out car I will not bother to rig a proper circulating heater, even thought that is by far the best thing to do.

BTW: my old 6.5 is good to -18 unplugged (has been that way since new) but the D-Max I drove in Winnipeg last month (mostly -30 overnights) went just fine unplugged. Quite impressive.

Pat Dolan said:

They sure as hell DID! The Mk1 (A1) Rabbit and Jetta IDI TDIs were just that - incredibly simple, cheap and reliable.

AND: you could solo it from the front seat!

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Not disputing the reliability and simplicity of the idi vw's (I have one in a volvo), but an IDI TDI is a bit contradictory.

turbobrick240 said:

Not disputing the reliability and simplicity of the idi vw's (I have one in a volvo), but an IDI TDI is a bit contradictory.

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oops, I forgot to edit out the "TDI" that just automatically pops out of my keyboard when I think diesel.