Mechanic Charging me $1440 for replacing bad ECU

Long story short, my VW Jetta tdi year 2000 died on the road and found out that it was a bad ECU. I had the mechanic (not dealership) change out the ECU with a used working one and he claims that he had to get it reprogrammed with my alarm for it to work (he had another place do that).
He calls me up, and lets me know that he was able to get the car running but its technically still not running okay (limp mode) but turns on. By the end of the conversation he says that the current bill is at $1440 and he also said that he lost some money in trying to get it to work.
My question is, Is this even a reasonable amount to pay for an ECU swap that was purchased used?
His rate is $125 an hour.

UPDATE:


receipt by Lex Mark, on Flickr



Also I never told this guy to change out the solenoid valve, he just went ahead and purchased it and installed it without my approval

That's kind of messed. It's pretty uncommon for the ECU to actually die. Shouldn't be more than a couple of hours labour to swap it either.

Yes, it does need to be programmed to the car, but if he's charging you a ton of labour because he had to figure that out my guess is your original ECU was fine.

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Buying a new ecu from the dealer would probably have been cheaper than paying this clown to learn on your car

Sent from my mobile look-at device

\/\/0J0 said:

Buying a new ecu from the dealer would probably have been cheaper than paying this clown to learn on your car

Sent from my mobile look-at device

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so should I try to argue that that bill is pretty unreasonable? My thought as well, I'm not paying this guy to learn.

LexTDI said:

so should I try to argue that that bill is pretty unreasonable? My thought as well, I'm not paying this guy to learn.

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Usually mechanics charge by the book hour (hours the "book" says it should take a competent mechanic to do the work) so hopefully you can use that as a basis on how long the job should have taken...not just the time some mechanic claims they spent on your car.

Hopefully that helps.

Andrew

PS - AND limp mode to boot....***!....He ought to be paying YOU for his incompetence.....ugh

Andyinchville1 said:

Usually mechanics charge by the book hour (hours the "book" says it should take a competent mechanic to do the work) so hopefully you can use that as a basis on how long the job should have taken...not just the time some mechanic claims they spent on your car.

Hopefully that helps.

Andrew

PS - AND limp mode to boot....***!....He ought to be paying YOU for his incompetence.....ugh

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Yeah I know what you mean by the rate, but for some reason I can't find anything on ECU replacement and reprogramming. I honestly doubt it would take more than 3 to 4 hours to replace the ecu.

Hour job, TOPS. Mechanic has no idea what he is doing which begs the question of why he is replacing the ECU in the first place.

Electrical diagnosis by the hour is the typical charge. I've been there before. No book rate on that.

We charge one hours time to recode an ECU. Book time for replacement of actual ECU, and diag time is straight time. If it was the ECU diag time would not be long. It either communicates or not, and if not check power and grounds.

Used ECUs are pretty cheap, 150ish or so. I could see a bill for $600 happening pretty quick, but that would be with a running car to show for it. tow it out of there with your original ECU and take it to someone that has more of a clue and can reprogram in house. If they get uppity offer to pay 2 hours diag, but no more as they did not fix it.

A good shop will admit defeat and write it way back as compensation. If they treat you right, call it a well learned lesson, and find someone that knows the car to fix it properly.

ECU failures are rather rare.

pdq import repair said:

We charge one hours time to recode an ECU. Book time for replacement of actual ECU, and diag time is straight time. If it was the ECU diag time would not be long. It either communicates or not, and if not check power and grounds.

Used ECUs are pretty cheap, 150ish or so. I could see a bill for $600 happening pretty quick, but that would be with a running car to show for it. tow it out of there with your original ECU and take it to someone that has more of a clue and can reprogram in house. If they get uppity offer to pay 2 hours diag, but no more as they did not fix it.

A good shop will admit defeat and write it way back as compensation. If they treat you right, call it a well learned lesson, and find someone that knows the car to fix it properly.

ECU failures are rather rare.

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I've updated the post with a receipt of the parts and labor. This guy is charging me $600 bucks for an ecu USED!

turbocharged798 said:

Hour job, TOPS. Mechanic has no idea what he is doing which begs the question of why he is replacing the ECU in the first place.

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That is what I'm starting to see now that I got the receipt for it.

FWIW, if they're talking about the fuel shutoff solenoid on the injection pump, it's $56.95 on our site, not $171. Even our jobber parts supplier shows $127 list. I typically pay about $150 for a used ECU, but in fairness you can't always find them that cheap. ECU swap takes about 10 minutes, if you're slow. Reprogramming shouldn't take that long, either. All you're really dealing with is the immobilizer, IIRC.

I've seen some outrageous charges, but this one tops the list.

I highly doubt that both the N109 fuel shutoff and the ECU went bad at the exact same time. So he was playing part swap and you're paying for it??????

The ECU swap is easy, pull wipers, pull cowl, remove ECU. 15 min assuming the wipers aren't seized on. and why limp mode now? did he get the wrong ECU?

and even the fuel shutoff, 1 hour charge to replace?? it takes 30 seconds to remove, it's literally staring you in the face when you remove the plastic engine cover.

in any case, on labor - it shouldn't be more than 1 hour total. on parts, $300 tops. But the shut off valve AND ECU replacement at the same time (and separate labor charges for both!!!!!) means to me they failed to perform the line that says "diagnose no start"; yet you're still paying for 'diagnosis'.

most shops I've seen waive the diagnostic fee if you have the work performed by them. I've only ever seen a diagnostic charge when you decline the work. this guy is taking you for a ride.

I just saw the invoice.....appears you didn't sign it.....DON'T sign it and you'll have greater leverage in negotiating this down to a more reasonable level....remember you said you are still in limp mode!

This is crazy! Im I hope you are able to fight it, or at least chew him down considering the car isnt even fixed. With things like yelp, facebook, and social media.....shops need to realize that screwing someone over like this can be suicide. I would have posted a picture that shows the shop name...

Andyinchville1 said:

I just saw the invoice.....appears you didn't sign it.....DON'T sign it and you'll have greater leverage in negotiating this down to a more reasonable level....remember you said you are still in limp mode!

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Little known fact: If you do not sign the repair order BEFORE work is commenced, you have not technically authorized any work to be done, at least in Idaho, but suspect everywhere else too. This premise has stood the test in court more than once.

You could, in theory, just ask for your keys and take your car claiming no authorization from you.

I admit we rarely get the prior authorization here, but most of my customers are long time repeaters. I don't recommend you just take your car away, rather talk with the owner and agree to pay a reasonable charge for diag, have them remove the parts and give you back your originals and go somewhere else. No need to go off on the guy and storm out, it will only make both of you furious and do no other good. Present a reasonable face, stay calm and state the facts plainly and in normal voice and you will get better response. If I were the owner in this case I would probably write the whole thing off as goodwill and get on with life. Hours spent arguing are not chargeable hours and only creates bad feelings.

You can present the question to them if they discovered the fuel shutoff issue after the ECU replacement or before. I suspect the real issue was not the ECU. Have they tried plugging your original back in after the fuel shutoff replacement? I see no explanation on the repair order. There should be code numbers, or note of no communication with the module, or some reason to suspect the ECU. I tell my guys to write a novel explaining what they do so we are covered and in the future when we work on the car we can detail exactly what has been done in the past, they are happy to as their memory can be as good as mine and the story never changes once written down.

good luck

Dave

"it takes 30 seconds to remove, it's literally staring you in the face when you remove the plastic engine cover."

Ok, let's just say it takes 30 seconds to replace. But what about the time to order the part and receive it, move the car into the shop, remove the cover, get the tools, take the 30 seconds to replace it, inspect it for problems, clean up spilled fuel, test it, check for leaks install the cover, clean the tools and put them away, drive the car out, do the paperwork. Too many people only look at the time to R&R and don't consider the entire job. Doesn't the mechanic deserve to be paid for all of that time as well?

This may help you in terms of negotiating ECU costs...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=475764

whitedog said:

"it takes 30 seconds to remove, it's literally staring you in the face when you remove the plastic engine cover."

Ok, let's just say it takes 30 seconds to replace. But what about the time to order the part and receive it, move the car into the shop, remove the cover, get the tools, take the 30 seconds to replace it, inspect it for problems, clean up spilled fuel, test it, check for leaks install the cover, clean the tools and put them away, drive the car out, do the paperwork. Too many people only look at the time to R&R and don't consider the entire job. Doesn't the mechanic deserve to be paid for all of that time as well?

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HI,

You make good points here...

I personally do not have a problem with paying a reasonable amount or even an agreed to amount that may be a little on the higher side (assuming the extra is to make sure things get done right the first time and it was mutually agreed to) but I'm not sure that exactly happened in this situation (I don't have all the details about what what was said , implied etc...but it seems to me the OP was shocked when he got a bill so I think not a lot of something went on (whether it be communicating / agreeing etc..).

I realize parts are marked up (typically in our area parts are doubled....wholesale VS retail) and mechanics need to make money BUT I would take issue if I thought I was being gouged and or the estimate given was grossly low and a shop tried to "force" me to pay something grossly out of line with respect to the original estimate and / or what is reasonable and customary ( in our area, the company I use is allowed a 10% overage above the estimate before they have to call the customer to get approval for the overages before continuing work).

I try to be a fair / good customer but I would expect to be treated fairly as well.

I hope this works out for the OP / mechanic but from the info I see / have I think the mechanic is a little out of line here...(plus the car is still in limp mode despite being asked to pay an amount that could be 1/2 or more of the cost of another used running Jetta).

Just my 2 cents.

Andrew

Millennium Falcon said:

This is crazy! Im I hope you are able to fight it, or at least chew him down considering the car isnt even fixed. With things like yelp, facebook, and social media.....shops need to realize that screwing someone over like this can be suicide. I would have posted a picture that shows the shop name...

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I just found their google review page and holy crap, these guys are scam artist. Everything that I stated here has happen to people before. The only reason that it was taken here was because my Dad thought it was a good place.
reviews by Lex Mark, on Flickr

Andyinchville1 said:

HI,

You make good points here...

I personally do not have a problem with paying a reasonable amount or even an agreed to amount that may be a little on the higher side (assuming the extra is to make sure things get done right the first time and it was mutually agreed to) but I'm not sure that exactly happened in this situation (I don't have all the details about what what was said , implied etc...but it seems to me the OP was shocked when he got a bill so I think not a lot of something went on (whether it be communicating / agreeing etc..).

I realize parts are marked up (typically in our area parts are doubled....wholesale VS retail) and mechanics need to make money BUT I would take issue if I thought I was being gouged and or the estimate given was grossly low and a shop tried to "force" me to pay something grossly out of line with respect to the original estimate and / or what is reasonable and customary ( in our area, the company I use is allowed a 10% overage above the estimate before they have to call the customer to get approval for the overages before continuing work).

I try to be a fair / good customer but I would expect to be treated fairly as well.

I hope this works out for the OP / mechanic but from the info I see / have I think the mechanic is a little out of line here...(plus the car is still in limp mode despite being asked to pay an amount that could be 1/2 or more of the cost of another used running Jetta).

Just my 2 cents.

Andrew

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I never agreed for him to purchased a new fuel solenoid valve nor did he ever tell me that it was bad, the mechanic just bought it and installed it, that is why you see a price for the labor and part. As for the ECU he claims to have purchased it from ebay I can't even find one remotely close to that price range USED for that matter. I called him today and he tries to tell all the things that he did to get the ecu "fixed". Then he said that he could not talk anymore as he need to go take care of some other things note the conversation only lasted 5 min.

whitedog said:

"it takes 30 seconds to remove, it's literally staring you in the face when you remove the plastic engine cover."

Ok, let's just say it takes 30 seconds to replace. But what about the time to order the part and receive it, move the car into the shop, remove the cover, get the tools, take the 30 seconds to replace it, inspect it for problems, clean up spilled fuel, test it, check for leaks install the cover, clean the tools and put them away, drive the car out, do the paperwork. Too many people only look at the time to R&R and don't consider the entire job. Doesn't the mechanic deserve to be paid for all of that time as well?

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It does not matter I did not approve of it to be changed.

LexTDI said:

The only reason that it was taken here was because my Dad thought it was a good place.

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Sometimes Father does not know best.

Next time do your research before taking a vehicle to a new-to-you repair shop or stick to a trusted TDI guru from the list here. Shouldn't have any nasty surprises that way...

Good luck getting this mess straightened out!

251 said:

Sometimes Father does not know best.
Next time do your research before taking a vehicle to a new-to-you repair shop or stick to a trusted TDI guru from the list here. Shouldn't have any nasty surprises that way...
Good luck getting this mess straightened out!

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Thanks, all other good know places admitted defeat.

Andyinchville1 said:

This may help you in terms of negotiating ECU costs...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=475764

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well he purchased it from ebay, and I could only find ecu's costing on the range of $150 to $250 max but $600!

LexTDI said:

well he purchased it from ebay, and I could only find ecu's costing on the range of $150 to $250 max but $600!

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Did you search eBay using the 'Sold Listings' option in an 'Advanced Search'? Only items that actually were sold show up and it should go back 2 or 3 months. I assume the shop in question has done the work more recently than January so it should be easy to find an ECU that sold for $600 on eBay.

Check out eBay #331908796096 - it's a remanufactured ECU that sold for $650.00 plus $50 shipping on February 23, 2017. Does this fit the timeframe of your repair?

Hope this helps you out!

I just did a quick wrecking yard search and found 3 pages of ECUs listed for your car ranging in price from $70. to $250.00 with most of them in the 125-150 range. There was one for $300, it was the highest of all.

Rip off merchant, done ecu swap on 2002 1.9Tdi Jetta in the uk for £90 sterling (approx $110), ecu was £40 ($49), whole change took approx 30 mins incliding reprogramming immobiliser.

251 said:

Did you search eBay using the 'Sold Listings' option in an 'Advanced Search'? Only items that actually were sold show up and it should go back 2 or 3 months. I assume the shop in question has done the work more recently than January so it should be easy to find an ECU that sold for $600 on eBay.
Check out eBay #331908796096 - it's a remanufactured ECU that sold for $650.00 plus $50 shipping on February 23, 2017. Does this fit the timeframe of your repair?
Hope this helps you out!

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actually I just spoke to him and he manage to clear up the price. For the ECU he purchased it for around $250 with his markup its around $325. However that $350 ( $675 - $325) he claims is from the immobilizer.

pdq import repair said:

I just did a quick wrecking yard search and found 3 pages of ECUs listed for your car ranging in price from $70. to $250.00 with most of them in the 125-150 range. There was one for $300, it was the highest of all.

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Yeah, he called back and said that he bought it for $250 with his markup is $325. The rest $350 ($675 - $325) from the immobilizer?

Just to be clear I'm not even sure what part is the immobilizer is it a chip that is sync with the key to turn on the car?