Which clutch setups will for sure hold Stage 2 + nozzles on an ALH?

Sorry I know this has been asked again and again, but to be fair there do seem to be some newer "quiet" clutch options out there that don't show up much in my searching. I know the South Bend Stage 2 clutches will hold a Malone Stage 2 ALH (with nozzles) but pretty much everything else seems hit or miss or borderline.


Sachs VR6/G60: rated for 300ft-lbs but the forums are filled with stories of this clutch failing prematurely under much less than that. Plus it is a known rattler.

Luk 17-050: no official rating but it seems to hold good power for some people.. IDParts estimates 260 ft-lbs which puts it on the hairy edge. Attractive because of price. DMF a bit off-putting.

Sachs Quiet Clutch: Rated for 275ft-lbs which means it should hold but only about 10% margin. If you get a "weak" one you could slip it.

IDParts Quiet Clutch: no official stats but presumably same as Sachs Quiet Clutch.

Valeo VR6/G60: 230 ft-lbs. No stronger than stock apparently.


Anything I'm missing, or wrong about?

I have the vr6/g60 combo in my wagon with malone stage 3. Pretty heavy driving and sometimes towing very inappropriately heavy trailers. No issues, 125k miles and counting.
It does make some noise, I dont really care. Its a daily beater with 400k miles.

I also have the vr6/g60 combo.
I’m currently running Malone stage 3 with sprint 520’s.

I do have the slight rattle but used to it.

I have currently on the car 416,xxx miles on it, was an auto ow a manual.

Swap done at 121,xxx miles on odo.

Taught 3 kids to drive the stick in my car.

Clutch currently has approximately 295,xxx miles on it and can still spin wheels in second.

It’s my daily driver I do 110 miles a day, half of it in stop and go traffic.

I'd step up to a south bend to future-proof the car. Drive-ability on them is still great.

Owain@malonetuning said:

I'd step up to a south bend to future-proof the car. Drive-ability on them is still great.

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Unfortunately, below is my pricing reality in Canada. The SB is just *so* expensive compared to the others. It's a bit frustrating that there isn't a good middle ground with reasonable torque (~290-300ft-lbs), low rattle, and reasonable price (< CAD$600 incl taxes/ship) for those of us with modest power aspirations. The Sachs VR6 would fit the bill if it weren't noisy and a bit inconsistent in performance.

Clutch/Torque Rating/Price
Luk / 260 / $345.00
Sachs VR6/G60/ 300 / $493.68
South Bend/ 330 / $877.20
IDParts Quiet / 275 / $416.16
Sachs Quiet / 275 / $569.84

I suggest taking a look at Bully clutch here in Canada. I've installed a few and have had no problems with them, the higher stages can be noisy. I currently have a Valeo in my daily with 1019 dlc and vnt17, but with no tune.

A LUK 05-101 should do it. Fitment will be some issue, as even the 240mm 6-spd won't fit...

I have stage3+11mm pump+bigger nozzles and the VR6/G60 combo. No issues.

VR6 clutch is the way to go as I heard a lot of recommendations of this clutch for serious power.


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Also thank you OP for bringing this up because I might buy a Mk4 wagon


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I'm running RC Stage2, with PP205 nozzles, and my auto to 5 speed conversion was with a SMF VW clutch. As long as I don't abuse it, it runs fine. Estimating 153 HP and 240 lb-ft torque.

So I ended up going with the IDParts Quiet Clutch which has been shown to hold RC3 + nozzles and should hold Stage 2 on the ALH no problem. I just didn't want the noise and uncertain performance of the Sachs VR6/G60 (I know, some people love it, but the forum is littered with posts of this setup not holding even modest power), and I couldn't justify the extra $500 for the SBC Stage 2. Worst case scenario I downgrade to Stage 1.5 if the clutch slips but I doubt that will be necessary. I am awfully gentle on clutches.

Ok sounds good! Keep us posted how you like it after its installed. I would like to know because I am going to buy an MK4 ALH wagon as my backup car for work purposes if my MK6 JSW breaks down etc.


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I have a SB Daily Driver 2, a Stage 4 Tune, and over 70,000 trouble free miles on the clutch. Granted, I don't pound the clutch on a regular basis either.

calimustang said:

Ok sounds good! Keep us posted how you like it after its installed. I would like to know because I am going to buy an MK4 ALH wagon as my backup car for work purposes if my MK6 JSW breaks down etc.


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Will do. At first glance it is unmarked and unbranded so I'm a bit worried it's a Made in China product, which doesn't necessarily mean it's bad but we'll see. I guess I had assumed that it was a rebranded Sachs but that doesn't appear to be the case. My guy also had to warm up the flywheel with a heat gun to get it installed which he said he'd never had to do before. Again, not a huge deal but doesn't give a good first impression.

Update: Clutch is now installed and the pedal feel is very light and smooth. We decided to go with an INA throwout bearing instead of the unbranded/unmarked one in the kit - the INA looked a touch sturdier. I've only driven it for 10-15 min and I think I felt it slip slightly going into 2nd when I got on the accelerator a bit early after a shift (engage point is higher than my previous clutch) but I'll give it some time to break in before I cast judgement. It really does feel light and feathery though - I was expecting it to be a bit "beefier" but hopefully that's no indication of its holding power .

I am considering a sach quite clutch, 1019 nossels, a re built vnt15 and a stage 2. Hoping that combo will hold. How is yours doing McGuillicuddy?

Imo, just get the stage 2 endurance. Or the stage 3. Both are easily steerable daily driver clutches
The price is nearly the same. No reason to go with less.

I might scale back to 520 instead of 1019. The cluch(sach quite) with flywheel is 300usd vs (south bend stage 2)550usd. All the car will ever be is tuned with a nossel upgrade just want to make sure the clutch will hold. Any other opinions/experiences out there?

When I upgraded, I originally had a stage 2 tune with 0.205 nozzles and a stock everything else. Valeo clutch (which was only a few months old) started slipping as soon as the tune was done. Trust me, you don't want to do the job twice. I went with a stage 3 endurance, but that's only because the stage 2 endurance was out of stock at the time. Pedal resistance is definitely increased.

tdidreams said:

I might scale back to 520 instead of 1019. The cluch(sach quite) with flywheel is 300usd vs (south bend stage 2)550usd. All the car will ever be is tuned with a nossel upgrade just want to make sure the clutch will hold. Any other opinions/experiences out there?

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Hi

I have dlc 520s and plan on switching to 1019s soon (maybe bigger but at least 1019).

I'm wondering if we are both in " the grass is greener on the other side " way of thinking ?

For what it's worth when I upgraded the injection pump to 11 mm and got the bigger injectors my fuel economy went up ....

Maybe I'm getting greedy and hoping for another mileage bump because I often hear of people doing 75 mph and still getting better gas mileage than me cruising at 62 mph ....

For what it's worth you can have monster horsepower and efficiency and not have to upgrade a clutch necessarily .... just don't push it hard or too hard.

Andrew

Nero Morg said:

When I upgraded, I originally had a stage 2 tune with 0.205 nozzles and a stock everything else. Valeo clutch (which was only a few months old) started slipping as soon as the tune was done. Trust me, you don't want to do the job twice. I went with a stage 3 endurance, but that's only because the stage 2 endurance was out of stock at the time. Pedal resistance is definitely increased.

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Hi

Just curious but how much harder do you think the pedal was on the stage 3 endurance vs the stock clutch?

I'm having a stage 3 daily put in the car here shortly and was wondering what I should be expecting .... course I wonder if there's much difference between a daily and then endurance as far as pedal pressure needed to work the clutch

Thanks
Andrew

Definitely at least double effort. My dad has a stock clutch, and a friend of mine has a stage 2. Both feel the same, but mine is definitely double. You get used to it though.

Andyinchville1 said:

Hi

I have dlc 520s and plan on switching to 1019s soon (maybe bigger but at least 1019).

I'm wondering if we are both in " the grass is greener on the other side " way of thinking ?

For what it's worth when I upgraded the injection pump to 11 mm and got the bigger injectors my fuel economy went up ....

Maybe I'm getting greedy and hoping for another mileage bump because I often hear of people doing 75 mph and still getting better gas mileage than me cruising at 62 mph ....

For what it's worth you can have monster horsepower and efficiency and not have to upgrade a clutch necessarily .... just don't push it hard or too hard.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Do you have a tune? What clutch do you currently have?

For what it’s worth... I’m running vr6/G60 single mass setup with sprint 520’s and a Malone stage 3.
clutch setup has over 320,xxx miles on It and I taught 3 kids on my car on how to drive a stick.
Car currently has 444,xxx miles on it . It started out as an automatic so it has the 11MM pump.
I have the occasional rattle in neutral.

Vr6/g60 in both of ours. Vnt15, 11mm pump and .216’s tuned by Mike @ tdtuning. I tow and romp on it occasionally, clutches are holding up good and the pedal is non fatiguing

csstevej said:

For what it’s worth... I’m running vr6/G60 single mass setup with sprint 520’s and a Malone stage 3.
clutch setup has over 320,xxx miles on It and I taught 3 kids on my car on how to drive a stick.
Car currently has 444,xxx miles on it . It started out as an automatic so it has the 11MM pump.
I have the occasional rattle in neutral.

Click to expand...

Is there an echo in here (post#3):

That was back in April of 2019....just wanted to update the mileage

tdidreams said:

Do you have a tune? What clutch do you currently have?

Click to expand...

I have a stage 1 Malone tune and stock clutch (it started making occasional "noise" probably about 15K miles ago .... got progressively worse to the point I stopped driving the car (at about 400K miles) until I got a replacement clutch (used Stage 3 Daily from RacerXtdi) .... Car is scheduled to get its "new" clutch this upcoming week.

Andrew