What Diesels are Available in North America 2010/2011???

gmcjetpilot · Jun 21, 2010

Can anyone get me up to speed on the state of Diesel's in North America.
What Diesel's are available (not SUV's) 2010 and 2011.

VW Jetta TDI Check?
Audi A3 TDI Check?
BMW 335d Check?

(Available but not in North America)
VW Scirocco TDI NOPE?
Subaru (Legacy, Outback, and Forrester ) NOPE?

HOW HARD WOULD IT BE TO IMPORT A Diesel Subaru or Sirocco?
Why not just go over, buy one, put it in a can and bring it to US.

Honda, Ford, Volvo, Acura, Toyota, Saab, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Lincoln, Lexus, Kia, Hyundai, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick????? NOPE?

WHAT THE HECK.... The Jetta and the Audi TDI seems to be the only choice. I don't get why VW does not bring the TDI Scirocco to the USA. I was really hoping for the Subaru Boxer diesel to come to USA... Seems like it is not going to happen.

Why?

MarcusW · Jun 21, 2010

I think your list is pretty comprehensive but missing the Golf TDI.

The Diesel Driver has a review of it.

Volkswagen Golf TDI Review 1 March 2010

The Volkswagen Golf, launched as the Rabbit in the United States, has been in the VW lineup since 1974, introduced as the front-wheel-drive replacement for the air-cooled Volkswagen Beetle (Käfer). The name Golf is derived …

vw4life · Jun 21, 2010

Q7
Touareg
Cayenne coming up isn't it or is it ROW only?

gmcjetpilot · Jun 21, 2010

MarcusW said:
I think your list is pretty comprehensive but missing the Golf TDI.

The Diesel Driver has a review of it.

Volkswagen Golf TDI Review 1 March 2010

The Volkswagen Golf, launched as the Rabbit in the United States, has been in the VW lineup since 1974, introduced as the front-wheel-drive replacement for the air-cooled Volkswagen Beetle (Käfer). The name Golf is derived …

Thank you. OK that is cool. I forgot about the Golf or is it Rabbit? I guess since it is in USA it's still a Rabbit? Any way that is at least an option. I would think the Gold would get better mileage being lighter?

TurbinePower · Jun 22, 2010

vw4life said:
Q7
Touareg
Cayenne coming up isn't it or is it ROW only?

OP said "not SUVs", so I feel that leaves all those out.

There are few MB diesels out there, right? Sedans, not SUVs?

[edit] Hups! I missed editing time v. Posting time.

lkchris · Jun 22, 2010

Nobody calls the Mercedes R-class an SUV.

gmcjetpilot · Jun 22, 2010

lkchris said:
Nobody calls the Mercedes R-class an SUV.

Right the E class is nice, but I should have added under $40K or +30 MPG or midsize. I think the E class is nice but that is too much size and cost.... thanks you for your input. For fun I called my local dealer and they don't know much and will not get them until Sept.

There are some nice US made diesel trucks, with the Cummings duramax engines. If I lived on a ranch needed to haul large trailers I'd have one of those.

glitdi · Jun 22, 2010

dont forget the smart though I wouldnt classify it as a car. more of an egg with wheels.

TurbinePower · Jun 22, 2010

gmcjetpilot said:
There are some nice US made diesel trucks, with the Cummings duramax engines. If I lived on a ranch needed to haul large trailers I'd have one of those.

Cummins and Duramax are two different engine brands. Cummins builds the Cummins engines (Now up to 6.7L of displacement and complicated as sin), while the Duramax are built by Isuzu (And are something like 6.6L displacement as they've been for a while).

The new Ford engines are supposed to be stump-pullers and quite durable, 6.7L of Ford-engineered diesel now that they've cancelled their contract with International (who built the robust 7.3 and the less robust 6.0).

k1xv · Jun 23, 2010

Its Cummins, not Cummings.

I have an uncle who pronounces "sandwich" as "sangwich".

sjjaskow · Jun 23, 2010

The golf and jetta get the same EPA mileage, and the DSG models are rated one mpg better on highway than the better transmissions are. While the golf probably will get a little better gas mileage it all comes down to how you drive.

lkchris · Jun 23, 2010

gmcjetpilot said:
Right the E class is nice ...

Read more carefully, as my post referred to R-class.

E-class is currently not available with diesel.

dieselyeti · Jun 23, 2010

Wow, I just took a look at the MB USA site and the E320 Bluetec is gone. What happened there? They still offer their SUVs with the diesel.

domboy · Jun 24, 2010

TurbinePower said:
Cummins builds the Cummins engines (Now up to 6.7L of displacement and complicated as sin)

Just curious... is the Cummins diesel really any more complicated than VW's TDIs?? I realize it's quite a bit bigger, but I never though that in itself made it more complicated. So please pardon my ignorance. Of course, as someone that isn't a trained mechanic, a TDI seems rather complicated to me, though less so the longer I've owned it and the more things I've learned to do as far as maintenance and repair jobs go.

lkchris · Jun 24, 2010

dieselyeti said:
Wow, I just took a look at the MB USA site and the E320 Bluetec is gone. What happened there? They still offer their SUVs with the diesel.

What happened is there is a new body for 2010 and the diesel versions aren't ready yet. W212 has replaced W211. One HOPES they are working extra hard to avoid runflat tires, but I'm not holding my breath.

dieselyeti · Jun 25, 2010

lkchris said:
What happened is there is a new body for 2010 and the diesel versions aren't ready yet. W212 has replaced W211. One HOPES they are working extra hard to avoid runflat tires, but I'm not holding my breath.

I read a while back MB was considering a diesel S-class for the US, using the engine from the E320 Bluetec. That'd be nice, but I'd like to see a diesel C-class with their 250 CDI engine.

gmcjetpilot · Jun 29, 2010

domboy said:
Just curious... is the Cummins diesel really any more complicated than VW's TDIs?? I realize it's quite a bit bigger, but I never though that in itself made it more complicated. So please pardon my ignorance. Of course, as someone that isn't a trained mechanic, a TDI seems rather complicated to me, though less so the longer I've owned it and the more things I've learned to do as far as maintenance and repair jobs go.

I think that is a good observation. The Truck diesels are actually less complicated because they don't need meet the standard pollution standards for cars, so they have much pollution stuff. You don't hear about the big pickup truck makers, say GMC, Dodge, offering Blue Tec or TDI like system.. with the fancy separate oxidation, nitrogen and hydrogen sulfide catalytic converters.

TurbinePower · Jun 29, 2010

gmcjetpilot said:
I think that is a good observation. The Truck diesels are actually less complicated because they don't need meet the standard pollution standards for cars, so they have much pollution stuff. You don't hear about the big pickup truck makers, say GMC, Dodge, offering Blue Tec or TDI like system.. with the fancy separate oxidation, nitrogen and hydrogen sulfide catalytic converters.

Our buses had passive DPFs as far back as 2007 (And mandatory DOCs as far back as '99, if I remember correctly), and the next ones we buy will have to have an actively regenerated DPF, urea-injection for NOx control, and a sulphur reducing catalyst... just like the passenger cars.

The "big three" have just as much bolt-on emissions crap as a modern CBEA TDI does.

lkchris · Jul 5, 2010

gmcjetpilot said:
I think that is a good observation. The Truck diesels are actually less complicated because they don't need meet the standard pollution standards for cars, so they have much pollution stuff. You don't hear about the big pickup truck makers, say GMC, Dodge, offering Blue Tec or TDI like system.. with the fancy separate oxidation, nitrogen and hydrogen sulfide catalytic converters.

This is inaccurate.

ALL on-road vehicles from 2007-on in USA are required to have diesel particulate filters ... this being the reason for the switch to ULSD.

Requirement for selective catalyic reduction, i.e. urea fluid, is based on whether manufacturer can devise a system that meets rules without it. Lots of 18-wheelers are indeed using it.

http://www.detroitdiesel.com/emissions/epa2010/

gmcjetpilot · Jul 5, 2010

lkchris said:
This is inaccurate. ALL on-road vehicles (no it's by weight and class) from 2007-on in USA are required to have diesel particulate filters ... this being the reason for the switch to ULSD.

Requirement for selective catalyic reduction, i.e. urea fluid, is based on whether manufacturer can devise a system that meets rules without it. Lots of 18-wheelers are indeed using it.

http://www.detroitdiesel.com/emissions/epa2010/

So you are saying trucks must meet the same emission standards as passenger cars?

Sure there are pollution controls and standards on diesel trucks. I am sure Detroit diesel and others are looking at meeting the requirement in anticipation of stricter laws. I could be wrong, but I still have the opinion (key word opinion) that diesel powered pick-up trucks and 18 wheelers and farm equip and so on, gets a break based on weight.

The allowable amount of NOx from a big pickup truck is different. There are cars, light trucks, heavy trucks, bus, off road (farm), marine, stationary.... Fed Tier 1, Fed Tier 2 and California. SUVs, pickup trucks, and minivans are treated differently under certain standards.

Tier 2 is for heavy duty and all the Dodge Cummings Pickups are above 8500 GVWR. So yes I think a diesel heavy pickup is under different standards than a VW TDI.

TurbinePower · Jul 5, 2010

But the emission control schemes are just as complicated; the truck standards may be higher, but their baseline emission profiles were much higher, too.

gmcjetpilot · Jul 5, 2010

TurbinePower said:
But the emission control schemes are just as complicated; the truck standards may be higher, but their baseline emission profiles were much higher, too.

Yea that I was underestimating the pollution control on the big diesels. I thought they were really using a BIG-LOOP-HOLE to make them 1970's simple to save cost. I see they are implementing stricter standards on the big D's and all the same technology to keep soot and NOx down is being used on them as well.

I have not been driving the highways a lot in the last 10 yrs but I remember 18 wheelers blowing bellows of black smoke out the stack when they put the hammer down. I don't recall seeing that as much now that I think of it.

TurbinePower · Jul 6, 2010

gmcjetpilot said:
Yea that I was underestimating the pollution control on the big diesels. I thought they were really using a BIG-LOOP-HOLE to make them 1970's simple to save cost. I see they are implementing stricter standards on the big D's and all the same technology to keep soot and NOx down is being used on them as well.

I have not been driving the highways a lot in the last 10 yrs but I remember 18 wheelers blowing bellows of black smoke out the stack then they put the hammer down. I don't recall seeing that as much now that I think of it.

Some of that reduction is just better maintenance of the older trucks, and the steady cycling of the fleet. There aren't many trucks from even the 80s left on the road, as a percentage of the entire fleet.

gmcjetpilot · Sep 16, 2010

Just to tickle the thread. I read all the post, many correcting me... ha ha

.
I acknowledge all the corrections above:

TDI Gulf, check
Cummins not Cummings
Big Diesels have advanced pollution control
There are other diesels available in SUV's and large pickup trucks
Big Diesels (Buses, 18 Wheelers) are not really more complicated than little diesels (just bigger)

North America for some reasons continues to not attract existing diesels avaiable in Europe. I should not whine, at least we have the TDI VW and Audi. The one I really miss is the Subaru TDI Boxer engine.

bhtooefr · Sep 16, 2010

gmcjetpilot said:
HOW HARD WOULD IT BE TO IMPORT A Diesel Subaru or Sirocco?
Why not just go over, buy one, put it in a can and bring it to US.

Try to register it.

For that matter, if Customs knows it's a car, they'll open the can, and then give you a choice: you pay to have the car shipped back, or they crush it.

If you go through a registered importer, pay about $60,000 to get the car certified to US standards.

The other option is, pick a car, and 25 years later go to Europe, buy a 25 year old example, and ship it over. Then, anything goes. (The way it works, it's actually 25 years after the calendar year in which the car was made. So, you could get a car made December 31, 2009, and bring it over on January 1, 2034, whereas a car made January 1, 2010 would have to be brought over on January 1, 2035 or later.)

VLS_GUY · Sep 16, 2010

I have been told by BMW employees (engineers) at Port Hueneme we will
get the 320d and perhaps the 535d. Hopefully the Mazda 3 and 6 will have diesels as well.
The car I would like to but isn't goona happen: the MB E220 CRD.

gmcjetpilot · Sep 17, 2010

bhtooefr said:
Try to register it.
For that matter, if Customs knows it's a car, they'll open the can, and then give you a choice: you pay to have the car shipped back, or they crush it.

If you go through a registered importer, pay about $60,000 to get the car certified to US standards.

The other option is, pick a car, and 25 years later go to Europe, buy a 25 year old example, and ship it over. Then, anything goes.

Interesting insight. Thanks for answering. There are many older diesels, Isuzu (Small pickup), Benz (300TD Wagon), Buck (skip unreliable gas adaptation), VW (Diesel Bug, rabbit), Volvo, Peugeot, Saab. I think all of these had diesels imported way back. They would be fun to play with, cheaper to buy, wide open to Veg Oil injection or Home Brew Diesel fuel..... However they are older, bigger, older, old cars that would need work, no doubt. The mileage is OK, but a gas civic would give the big diesels a run for the money MPG wise. However you would be in a tank. Even with out air bags the old Benz or Volvo were safe cars. As far as new diesels, we are limited. Which is not all bad. The new Turbo Diesels are better.

VLS_GUY said:
I have been told by BMW employees (engineers) at Port Hueneme we will get the 320d and perhaps the 535d. Hopefully the Mazda 3 and 6 will have diesels as well.The car I would like to but isn't gonna happen: the MB E220 CRD.

New Benz Diesel? Great. Mazda DIESEL? Cool ZoomZoomZoom. I will believe it when I see it of course. There was talk of the Subaru diesel coming to North America. For luxury diesel there is the BMW 335D, twin turbo diesel, that's here and now. I checked it out, about $50,000 base price (typically closer to $60K). The cool thing about the BMW is free(?) routine maintenance program, for the whole warranty period, four years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. That is nice. Is it worth well over double the VW or about double the Audi TDI?

German_1er_diesel · Sep 17, 2010

Well, if they bring a 320d it'll be way cheaper.
Here's the German 3-series price list:

The 320d is nearly 2000€ cheaper than the cheapest 6-cylinder gas model. The super-frugal 320d ED edition costs the same as a normal 320d.

What Diesels are Available in North America 2010/2011???

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