200k Overkill Refresh

Daysul · Apr 9, 2019

Now that I'm back to driving this car after it mostly sat for the past 5-6 years (got a new job and no longer have a company vehicle), I want to start putting some money into it.

Currently it has PP764 injectors, IDparts OMI, IDparts upper/lower Intercooler piping, ebay SMIC (I think), 3Bar MAP, ARP headstuds, VNT17( plus?), SDS Stage 2 Endurance, KermaTDI tune, 2.5in exhaust w/cat and no muffler, EGR delete, and I've been averaging 39mpg. MPG seems low, I thought I remembered it getting around 45-48mpg when I was driving it as a daily before.

As the car is sitting at 185k miles, I want to start planning for an engine overhaul at 200k. How overkill is it to purchase an engine rebuild kit at 200k? I know it's recommended for 300k... but the engine is leaking oil from damn near everywhere and I just want this thing to be like a new engine. While I'm in the process of doing this, what else should I do? Is it worth it to upgrade rod and pistons to keep the car essentially bullet proof? Cam? Cam Lifters? intake/exhaust valves? I'm not looking to race the car, but I want it to be fun and I want to do everything I can now so I don't have to tear it down again until my next timing belt change.

Engine Parts List:
Engine Rebuild Kit
High Mileage Timing Belt Kit
Coolant Hose Refresh Kit
KermaTDI Long runner Intake
VNT 17/26
Kerma Upper/Lower Intercooler Piping
Kerma Catch Can
Possibly a FMIC, I like the idea of doing a r32 bumpers/skirts with a FMIC

Anything else you recommend? Or don't recommend? I'm not tied to these parts, but I need to buy something from Kerma in order to get them to update my tune.

I was never happy with the fitment of the IDparts OMI and Intercooler piping on the turbo, so that's my reasoning for replacing those.

Aside from Engine upgrade, I'm also going to be giving the entire car a facelift. New headlights/taillights, paint, suspension, wheels and interior work. It should be a brand new car when it's all said and done!

bizzle · Apr 9, 2019

I don't have any advice, but I'm local and would be interested in the turbo and some other parts if you're going to sell them.

scooperhsd · Apr 9, 2019

I think the idea of doing an engine rebuild is WAY overkill, based on my experiance with my 2000 NB at 370K miles. Maybe some one who is more of a mechanic will have a different opinion.

Yourbuddysatin · Apr 9, 2019

Just freshen it up if that’s what you want. I wouldnt do a full rebuild as it will get expansive. Really expansive if you upgrade internals and head work. My 01 I have been building I bet I have 5k in the engine to make it bulletproof while making it a 2.0L. If you plan on making 220hp and up I’d say build it but probably not with what you have right now.

Daysul · Apr 9, 2019

bizzle said:
I don't have any advice, but I'm local and would be interested in the turbo and some other parts if you're going to sell them.

This is still 15k miles away, so it'll be a bit, but I'll try and remember to come back to this thread.

scooperhsd said:
I think the idea of doing an engine rebuild is WAY overkill, based on my experiance with my 2000 NB at 370K miles. Maybe some one who is more of a mechanic will have a different opinion.

You may be right

I'll have to talk to my buddy that would be doing majority of the work and get his opinion on it. I just want to ensure that this thing won't leak and runs like a new car again

Daysul · Apr 9, 2019

Yourbuddysatin said:
Just freshen it up if that’s what you want. I wouldnt do a full rebuild as it will get expansive. Really expansive if you upgrade internals and head work. My 01 I have been building I bet I have 5k in the engine to make it bulletproof while making it a 2.0L. If you plan on making 220hp and up I’d say build it but probably not with what you have right now.

what would you say is considered a "freshen up" as compared to a rebuild?

I'm definitely not wanting to get into head work. I'd only consider replacing internals if they were a drop in solution without machine work.

Only machine work I'd consider doing is to resurface the heads (if needed) since the car previously blew a head gasket

bizzle · Apr 9, 2019

Daysul said:
This is still 15k miles away, so it'll be a bit, but I'll try and remember to come back to this thread.

I'm in no rush. When you do your timing belt, I have the metalnerd kit I could rent out to you instead of buying it. I don't know what a fair price would be, but probably around $50-60 bucks or less if more people in our area decided they wanted to take me up on the offer.

bizzle · Apr 9, 2019

Daysul said:
what would you say is considered a "freshen up" as compared to a rebuild?

I'm definitely not wanting to get into head work. I'd only consider replacing internals if they were a drop in solution without machine work.

Only machine work I'd consider doing is to resurface the heads (if needed) since the car previously blew a head gasket

Freshening up would be the seals that you can get to without unbolting anything major, ie, leaving the head on the block. Valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, and rear main seals would need some unfastening but those aren't what I'm talking about. That said, any time I've prematurely replaced a rear main seal I seem to cause more problems than I started with or had a symptom that made me think I should have left well enough alone.

Yourbuddysatin · Apr 9, 2019

Daysul said:
what would you say is considered a "freshen up" as compared to a rebuild?

Like bizzle said above. All new gaskets and seals. Maybe rod and crank bearings. Def a new oil pump and chain though.

I'm definitely not wanting to get into head work. I'd only consider replacing internals if they were a drop in solution without machine work.

Even stock bottom end parts aren’t drop in. Always have to plastic gauge and check clearances.

Only machine work I'd consider doing is to resurface the heads (if needed) since the car previously blew a head gasket

I’m 99% sure that is not a possibility seeing as the head is flat and without combustion chambers.

I messed up my answers and left them in the quote sorry.

vtpsd · Apr 10, 2019

Replace leaking oil seals belts, and other external items.

It would be a big mistake to rebuild a good running, factory assembled ALH. You will not improve the engine, and you will likely worsen its condition. Rebuilds are rarely if ever as well put together as a factory engine.

Daysul · Apr 12, 2019

bizzle said:
I'm in no rush. When you do your timing belt, I have the metalnerd kit I could rent out to you instead of buying it. I don't know what a fair price would be, but probably around $50-60 bucks or less if more people in our area decided they wanted to take me up on the offer.

Thanks for the offer, fortunately a good friend of mine is a VW mechanic, and also drives a 02 TDI!

bizzle said:
Freshening up would be the seals that you can get to without unbolting anything major, ie, leaving the head on the block. Valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, and rear main seals would need some unfastening but those aren't what I'm talking about. That said, any time I've prematurely replaced a rear main seal I seem to cause more problems than I started with or had a symptom that made me think I should have left well enough alone.

hmm.... that's kind of what I was afraid of, but also why I wanted to ask. Thanks

Yourbuddysatin said:
I’m 99% sure that is not a possibility seeing as the head is flat and without combustion chambers.

I messed up my answers and left them in the quote sorry.

Hopefully that's not something I'll have to worry about then! I get what you're saying about drop in, and that's not what I meant. I meant I didn't want to do anything that required additional work/machine work. "If you go with this cam, you have to port your heads and upgrade blah blah blah"

vtpsd said:
Replace leaking oil seals belts, and other external items.

It would be a big mistake to rebuild a good running, factory assembled ALH. You will not improve the engine, and you will likely worsen its condition. Rebuilds are rarely if ever as well put together as a factory engine.

Thanks for the heads up! Sounds like I'm just going to focus on finding the leaks and only replacing those seals.

Yourbuddysatin · Apr 12, 2019

Why don’t we look at it this way. What is your bottom line end result of what you want with the car? There are so many avenues to go down but all with different out comes. So if it’s stock you want to stay and stock yucky 90hp or a nice 160-180hp everyday runner? You have a lot of info to go off now to maybe curve your directions. I have to say once you make your decision we will all have great advice for a good end result.

Your buddy satan

[486] · Apr 12, 2019

you can get more modern 'sputter' bearings from darkside that got some whiz-bang coating on them for less money than that kit
oil pumps almost never wear out
kerma's intake manifold kinda sucks compared to the later 8v manifolds VW made (BRM, iirc?)
if you're going with a small turbo, go with something that is off the shelf and make a manifold rather than overpaying for some bolt-on hybrid thing that'll die a quick death

your #2 and 3 rods are pretty much guaranteed to be bent, every single ALH I've had apart has been so
may as well get some chinese rods and a set of pistons with the oil channels in them since you'll be replacing those two rods anyways (save the straight two for someone else to use) and the pistons will have cocked wear to them

deck the block and head both while they're apart, it just makes for better head gasket sealing

oh and check for a hot brake after it sat for that long, doesn't take much to make the rear discs drag on these

Daysul · Apr 15, 2019

Yourbuddysatin said:
Why don’t we look at it this way. What is your bottom line end result of what you want with the car? There are so many avenues to go down but all with different out comes. So if it’s stock you want to stay and stock yucky 90hp or a nice 160-180hp everyday runner? You have a lot of info to go off now to maybe curve your directions. I have to say once you make your decision we will all have great advice for a good end result.

Your buddy satan

Priorities:

Reliability - It's my Daily commuter, but not my only car if something happens
MPG - Again, its my commuter. As long as I'm at or above 40mpg, I'm happy
Performance - Currently have VNT17Plus, PP764, SMIC, Clutch etc. Looking to step that up
Leak free - I really want to get rid of these small oil leaks, and if I could get rid of the cloud of white smoke that happens every time I cold start, that would be my dream. It's slightly embarrassing when it happens at work.

[486] said:
you can get more modern 'sputter' bearings from darkside that got some whiz-bang coating on them for less money than that kit
oil pumps almost never wear out
kerma's intake manifold kinda sucks compared to the later 8v manifolds VW made (BRM, iirc?)
if you're going with a small turbo, go with something that is off the shelf and make a manifold rather than overpaying for some bolt-on hybrid thing that'll die a quick death

your #2 and 3 rods are pretty much guaranteed to be bent, every single ALH I've had apart has been so
may as well get some chinese rods and a set of pistons with the oil channels in them since you'll be replacing those two rods anyways (save the straight two for someone else to use) and the pistons will have cocked wear to them

deck the block and head both while they're apart, it just makes for better head gasket sealing

oh and check for a hot brake after it sat for that long, doesn't take much to make the rear discs drag on these

Thanks for the heads up on the BRM intake option vs the kerma intake.

Would I be able to reuse the same manifold from my VNT17Plus for a VNT17/26? Does anyone sell them without the manifolds?

Thanks for the advice on the rods, I'll definitely check them when the time comes, and order them if needed.

Yourbuddysatin · Apr 15, 2019

Daysul said:
Priorities:

Reliability - It's my Daily commuter, but not my only car if something happens

MPG - Again, its my commuter. As long as I'm at or above 40mpg, I'm happy

Performance - Currently have VNT17Plus, PP764, SMIC, Clutch etc. Looking to step that up

Leak free - I really want to get rid of these small oil leaks, and if I could get rid of the cloud of white smoke that happens every time I cold start, that would be my dream. It's slightly embarrassing when it happens at work.

You have a threshold of power to relatability. I’d keep the 17plus. Maybe get a little more of an aggressive tune. I know Malone does good customer tunes.

MPG will be determined by mods and keeping your foot out of it. There is a threshold there also that power will over take the good mileage.

Performance maybe get in touch with whoever you got the tune from and see if there is a little more power with your set up. Also the guys from Finland make some serious power with larger turbos and bit larger injectors but 10mm pumps!!! Crazy!

If you have the ability pull the engine out or atleast pulll the front end and see all of what’s leaking then go from there. As for white smoke probably look into a catch can. Drain the intercooler of what oil is probably in there and clean all the intercooler piping. Maybe even compression check to make sure the rings are good. If so probably have to deal with the little bit of white smoke on start up. Sometimes white smoke is from more fuel such as larger nozzles on cold starts.

I’m sure someone else has good info. Maybe even better than mine!

Rrusse11 · Apr 15, 2019

Daysul,
Your white smoke on startup is likely fuel related. I'd be suspicious
of the pop pressures on your nozzles. My Wuzetem .230s, similar
size to your 764s, even at 10F, need NO throttle to fire right up.
If you're pumping like a gasser to get her going, springs in the injectors likely need adjusting. Insusfficient atomisation is my
internet diagnosis, FWIW, plus the fact that you've got a Kerma tune.
A catch can is a good addition though, I've been pleasantly surprisedwith mine.
My $.02.

Daysul · Apr 16, 2019

Yourbuddysatin said:
Daysul said:

Priorities:

Reliability - It's my Daily commuter, but not my only car if something happens

MPG - Again, its my commuter. As long as I'm at or above 40mpg, I'm happy

Performance - Currently have VNT17Plus, PP764, SMIC, Clutch etc. Looking to step that up

Leak free - I really want to get rid of these small oil leaks, and if I could get rid of the cloud of white smoke that happens every time I cold start, that would be my dream. It's slightly embarrassing when it happens at work.

Click to expand...

You have a threshold of power to relatability. I’d keep the 17plus. Maybe get a little more of an aggressive tune. I know Malone does good customer tunes.
MPG will be determined by mods and keeping your foot out of it. There is a threshold there also that power will over take the good mileage.
Performance maybe get in touch with whoever you got the tune from and see if there is a little more power with your set up. Also the guys from Finland make some serious power with larger turbos and bit larger injectors but 10mm pumps!!! Crazy!
If you have the ability pull the engine out or atleast pulll the front end and see all of what’s leaking then go from there. As for white smoke probably look into a catch can. Drain the intercooler of what oil is probably in there and clean all the intercooler piping. Maybe even compression check to make sure the rings are good. If so probably have to deal with the little bit of white smoke on start up. Sometimes white smoke is from more fuel such as larger nozzles on cold starts.
I’m sure someone else has good info. Maybe even better than mine!

I'm usually pretty good about keeping my foot out of it, I'm typically sitting in traffic so I can't drive it hard if I wanted to! Part of my hate for the 17plus probably has more to do with the supporting mods that are connected to it haha. The IDparts OMI and Intercooler pipes fitment was **** from the very beginning, even with reclocking the turbo

just ordered This catch can, we'll see how much it improves after I empty any oil thats built up in the IC.

Rrusse11 said:

Daysul,
Your white smoke on startup is likely fuel related. I'd be suspicious
of the pop pressures on your nozzles. My Wuzetem .230s, similar
size to your 764s, even at 10F, need NO throttle to fire right up.
If you're pumping like a gasser to get her going, springs in the injectors likely need adjusting. Insusfficient atomisation is my
internet diagnosis, FWIW, plus the fact that you've got a Kerma tune.
A catch can is a good addition though, I've been pleasantly surprisedwith mine.
My $.02.

Click to expand...

I definetely don't pump the pedal, or even have to touch the pedal when starting the car.

just ordered This catch can, we'll see how much it improves after I empty any oil thats built up in the IC.

Rrusse11 · Apr 16, 2019

Here's mine, <$40. The real improvement seems to be keeping the
compressor blades cleaner. Turbo after ~ 2 months is more responsive.
Plus it's got to be keeping oil out of the whole intercooler path.
No more puff of black smoke on tip in of heavy throttle.
And I've been able to lower my IQ without smoke at WOT.
Judging from the state of the tubing, I've not got much blowby on
the rings. I've yet to empty the can, it's got mebbe a tbsp of oil so far.
Surprisingly worthwhile mod IMO.

Nero Morg · Apr 16, 2019

You got a link on where you got that? I bought a universal catch can, but it's far too big to fit in the engine bay. Whoops!

Yourbuddysatin · Apr 16, 2019

Daysul,

I bought a lot of my parts from darkside. My turbo inlet pipe fit great and the upgraded side mount kit they sell did too.The 17plus is comparable to a vnt17/22 isn’t it? If so you are good to 200hp I believe. But if you ask me going to a gtb style turbo is your best bet for a good turbo and room to make more power.

Rrusse11 · Apr 17, 2019

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Bill...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Breeze-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Nero,
Bought one of these, some hose and a handful of quality hose clamps.
Jeff of RC recommended I put one together, key is being sure to get
3/4" braided PVC hose, and a couple of PVC plumbing fittings.
A foot of flatbar to make a hook that slides in to my battery holder,
The can has a pair of tapped holes on the lid for attachment.

Like I said above, I've been pleasantly surprised how much better
the turbo spools. Jeff warned that the air side of the turbo gets
carboned up and eventually out of balance, shortening life of same.

Your Mileage May Vary

200k Overkill Refresh

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