Ask only for turbo experts. (BorgWarner)

Good Morning. I bought a borgwarner turbo with the reference:
RE534565
What I could tell is an S300BV139.
So it's an S300
Can you help me about this turbo? I have some questions about him.
How many BAR or PSI can it hold ???
What size of billet compressor wheel should I put ???
How many RPM can it open?
How many RPM does it power up (5500rpm or 6000rpm) ???
Can you help me in these doubts ???
Thank you so much


https://ibb.co/fko3Gc

Could you give us some more subjective and ridiculous questions to answer?

darkside's got a drag car with some sort of s300v doing 50 or 60 psi on a PD 1.9 with 1:1 or thereabouts emp:imp

it spools when it spools, iirc they were getting some significant amount of boost just clamping down the vanes and free revving with no driveline load

you don't yet know the compressor dimensions and you're already talking about mucking about with jamming in aftermarket garbage?

Build a manifold, plumb it, see what it does.

The turbo listed is an OEM specific turbo for John Deere. It could be like some of the other John Deere S300V turbos, but maybe not, there's so many flavors and combinations of S300 turbos that the only way to get a rough idea is to post the wheel measurements. There's combinations that can support only 300 horsepower and as high as 700 or more for the S300 series.

Find out the inducer and exducer of the wheels and we can provide a better answer. Also, you asked about what RPM the wheel will spool at, and then mentioned adding a billet wheel. You should know that the cast S300 OEM wheels respond very well at low pressure ratios, and that the newer billet wheels(due to different designs and heavier material) respond like a boat anchor in comparison, but perform much better on the top end.

[486] said:

Could you give us some more subjective and ridiculous questions to answer?

darkside's got a drag car with some sort of s300v doing 50 or 60 psi on a PD 1.9 with 1:1 or thereabouts emp:imp

it spools when it spools, iirc they were getting some significant amount of boost just clamping down the vanes and free revving with no driveline load

you don't yet know the compressor dimensions and you're already talking about mucking about with jamming in aftermarket garbage?

Build a manifold, plumb it, see what it does.

Click to expand...

I honestly do not understand the aggressiveness of some comments ... what is obvious to you may not be for me ... do not you think?

If everyone knew everything and did not ask questions (ridiculous in your words) there was no thread, there would be no forums .... there would be no sharing of knowledge ... If you know all about this ... I can only give you Congratulations .... But I do not know ... I do not know everything about it, I do not know everything about anything ....
I'm always learning !!!

I'm sure there's someone here who already has the perfect "recipe" ... or very close to the perfect one to use with this turbo ...
but if you think billet compressor are garbage .... I can not say anything else about this ... because there is evidence given ...

Regarding everything else you said, let me have the honesty to thank you, especially for suggesting to manufacture an exaust manifold, I would think by OEM adapted, but I accept the suggestion, I take it and ask if I make 42x3mm or 45x3mm ???

I would also like to apologize for some technical words or common phrases used by you that I do not understand the meaning because English is not my native language, and too technical words or abbreviations are sometimes difficult to understand. Thank you very much.

crazyrunner33 said:

The turbo listed is an OEM specific turbo for John Deere. It could be like some of the other John Deere S300V turbos, but maybe not, there's so many flavors and combinations of S300 turbos that the only way to get a rough idea is to post the wheel measurements. There's combinations that can support only 300 horsepower and as high as 700 or more for the S300 series.

Find out the inducer and exducer of the wheels and we can provide a better answer. Also, you asked about what RPM the wheel will spool at, and then mentioned adding a billet wheel. You should know that the cast S300 OEM wheels respond very well at low pressure ratios, and that the newer billet wheels(due to different designs and heavier material) respond like a boat anchor in comparison, but perform much better on the top end.

Click to expand...

Ohhh thanks for the explanation !!!!!!!
I did not know there were many types of S300 ... I thought it was all the same ... (I must confess that here in Portugal nobody uses this turbo ... I just bought it because I read it here in the forum that is a good option for + 400HP in 1.9 tdi PD)
Thank you very much.

yes, when I get the turbo (ebay buy) I will measure the wheels of the compressor and the turbine to get in here and ask for the best help possible ...
Also did not know that the S300 OEM compressor wheel was very good at low EMP ...
I had the idea to the contrary, that a billet wheel compressor is lighter since it is made of solid aluminum ... and so it would be better for low gas exhaust ...
For your explanation is different ... can you explain me better !? I'm enjoying learning !!!
Thanks for all.

Most of the cast compressor wheels on the S300 family turbos have been designed to perform well off idle. The one on my 5.9 liter Cummins spools very well off the line, but the billet wheel that I had would light harder once it actually started to make boost, and pulled hard to the end of the 4000 rpm tach. There's so many

If you do swap for a billet wheel, I'd stick with an OEM forged machined billet wheel. Again, inducer and exducer size will allow us to tell if it's similar to a lot of the standard BW turbos. Pictures will also help, I can show them to my buddy who helped design the newer BW SXE turbo and see what'll swap over. I'll dig some info from him for you to read up on.

crazyrunner33 said:

Most of the cast compressor wheels on the S300 family turbos have been designed to perform well off idle. The one on my 5.9 liter Cummins spools very well off the line, but the billet wheel that I had would light harder once it actually started to make boost, and pulled hard to the end of the 4000 rpm tach. There's so many

If you do swap for a billet wheel, I'd stick with an OEM forged machined billet wheel. Again, inducer and exducer size will allow us to tell if it's similar to a lot of the standard BW turbos. Pictures will also help, I can show them to my buddy who helped design the newer BW SXE turbo and see what'll swap over. I'll dig some info from him for you to read up on.

Click to expand...

this would simply be .... excellent .... magnificent ...
at the moment I can only put the photos, exteriors because I have not received the turbo (ebay buy)...

But it is possible to see in the part of the turbo exaust that has an AR of 128 (I do not know if this is too much if it is little or if it is simply awsome)

I just have these photos that I leave in the links ...


https://ibb.co/frkQhH

https://ibb.co/guVxwc

https://ibb.co/dr1gNH

https://ibb.co/iQeCUx

https://ibb.co/hYafGc

https://ibb.co/g85Ebc

https://ibb.co/eo8aGc

https://ibb.co/nwUzbc

DCautosport said:

I honestly do not understand the aggressiveness of some comments ... what is obvious to you may not be for me ... do not you think?

Click to expand...

Apologies, I'm something of a tremendous dick sometimes when basic questions come up that can have a million answers all dependant on little details

you say nothing of your engine, everyone running these seems to have ported heads and aftermarket cams and springs
maybe you're running a less well flowing engine, you will be running higher PR for same mass flow, so your turbo will act different than anyone else's, spooling later and surging earlier
maybe you choose to run an air filter and muffler, or have a lighter car and shorter ratio transmission, yours will spool much later than someone running it in a heavy car with no air filter, no muffler and long gears

aftermarket billet wheels are easy to get mixed up in the hype, they are made in single piece runs which means you can get very dumb geometry choices pushed through the manufacturing process, like a 20mm hub on a 110mm inducer, or a 60mm inducer on a 65mm exducer with a 7mm tip height, which means that the surge line will be nearly flat with a max PR of something like 2 or 3

I also apologize for not putting more details. But I did not think that the answer had so many variants because of so much ... But sometimes it is very difficult to expose our ideas in a simple Post, moreover in a language that is not mine that I use in technical words.
Thank you also for the things you wrote me !!!
But if understood correctly, the car having the air filter having muffler will spool later. right?
But did not realize why, if the car lighter and with a shorter transmission ratio will spool later !? Should not it be sooner? I wanted to mount the PD engine in a Golf MK2 or a Seat Ibiza 6K2 because it would be lighter ... But now I was confused with what you said ...
The idea is to make a car to make 0-400 0-800 and something like 0-2Km (something like 0-1 / 4 of mile 0.5 miles and something like 1 mile).
In Portugal devoting a car to Drag is very difficult, because we have some very good companies here in the increase of performance. It is no wonder that the European Record of drag 0-1 / 4 miles is Portuguese (9.60 seconds), so it is very difficult to compete with these results.
So I really enjoyed doing an excellent project to at least do a good race street car. I intend to do everything along this current year, the base will be an ARL engine, with porting in the head. an excellent Camshaft I do not know yet which but I thought of something of 300º and 10.25 of Lift ... something really show !!! reinforced valve springs, also do not know which, but the idea will be to make the maximum rpm possible. Then the turbo is the foundation piece of this setup, with a 76mm Donwpipe and remaining exhaust line at 70mm, a large intercooler maybe the entire front of the car. And in the injection I still do not know if Firad + 160% or Dssr + 180% but something around it !!! and of course an excellent ecu map ...
Afterwards want Water-Methanol and Nitro but only later.
I wanted to reach the target of + 400hp WITHOUT nitro!!!
I wanted to do 6500 rpm (I know the PD engine is a lot, but why is that?) What's the reason it will not handle 6500rmp?
Why PD engines do not do 6500rpm's but the VP do?
This is a targets, trying to make the maximum RPM possible in PD I know it will be something around 5500, but I wanted to go beyond ...
All help, and opinions are welcome...

DCautosport said:

But did not realize why, if the car lighter and with a shorter transmission ratio will spool later !? Should not it be sooner?

Click to expand...

turbo spools later as there is less load on engine until you're going very fast, spend 2 seconds in a gear and you're out of revs before the turbo is even making full boost, spend 10 seconds in a gear and the turbo is doing all it can by the time you're at the rev limiter

DCautosport said:

Why PD engines do not do 6500rpm's but the VP do?

Click to expand...

I don't really pay attention to PD motors, but I think it is likely something such as the tandem pump not liking the RPM, or possibly the injector bodies do not handle as high of peak injection pressure
possible solutions is a different fuel pump capable of putting 7+ bar of fuel into the rail directly without tandem pump, and even bigger nozzles

Can you share info about the camshaft? Who makes it?
I am searching something good also and NPS doesnt offer it anymore.

Macradiators.com said:

Can you share info about the camshaft? Who makes it?
I am searching something good also and NPS doesnt offer it anymore.

Click to expand...

Contact them.
https://veicomer.com

They can help you.
Fast delivery, and good quality.

S300 would be way too big for a 1.9. S200 maybe better.

Im have a s200v with 52/74 7+7 efr comp its for sale all new rebuild

Efr is ~52.2/70. S356v is quite good on 1.9 as known by several engines. For sure you cant compare it to some tiny gtb2260 or so what comes to spooling. but it allows you get real power out from the engine. S360v may have surge issues.

So much S300V turbo experts over here...

S300BV is usually smaller compressor inducer than "legendary" S356V. If i have to guess this turbo is with 50mm inducer. If i am right it spools very nice with big loads and makes something like 380-400bhp max. With nice spool i mean something like 3bar@3000rpm.

S200V is not so much faster to spool and most cases original compressor wheel is just too tiny for anything.

Why do not just use gtb2260vk and change mixer attachments. There were cw, turbines light weight etc. shown close to 500HP??

Its out of 325hp JD tractor engine so i presume it has bigger than 50mm inducer? And since real bw proffesional is now here would you release full specs of that turbo since that is what this thread is about.

Yucca said:

So much S300V turbo experts over here...

S300BV is usually smaller compressor inducer than "legendary" S356V. If i have to guess this turbo is with 50mm inducer. If i am right it spools very nice with big loads and makes something like 380-400bhp max. With nice spool i mean something like 3bar@3000rpm.

S200V is not so much faster to spool and most cases original compressor wheel is just too tiny for anything.

Click to expand...

No need to be offended.

Quoting boost@RPM, once again, demonstrates a misunderstanding of "spool". You are conflating "boost threshold" (boost@RPM) and "turbo lag" which is purely a time in msec. or sec. to a given boost pressure on a load-step largely independent of RPM.

We don't have the benefit of the map of the actual S356V in question, but we do have an S300 57.1/84 mm comp wheel map that should be pretty close to make some comparisons. A smaller inducer will shift the surge and choke lines to the left slightly.

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/files/pdf/dimensional_reference/airwerks/S300GX.pdf

Sure, you can certainly get 400 HP (~44 lb/min with good lambda). You can certainly run the sucker to 52 PSI boost (PR=4.6). You can certainly get X bar boost at some low RPM to show how good it "spools". But none of those points will fall anywhere near where a 1.9 8V PD TDI's aspiration curves lie that's not either in surge or poor efficiency (I peg this criteria at 70% minimum and I also defy anyone that can show me an 8V PD not dropping off significantly in power over 5000 RPM). Go ahead, plot the dots and prove me wrong.

I'll start with one operating point: http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/gloss...=3&SFC=0.365&AFR=17.5&maxInjectorDutyCycle=85

Edit - quoting again:

3bar@3000rpm

Click to expand...

This is likely operating in surge. At 3000 RPM and 3 bar boost (PR=4) the mass flow is about 26 lb/min. The surge line @ PR=4 is at 33 lb/min, but I grant that a smaller trim compressor wheel will have the surge line further to the left, but it's implausible to be >20% less.

At least for this particular map where the surge line @ PR=4 is at 33 lb/min, this coincides with the 4000 RPM operating point. So congratulations, you've got a ~1000 RPM-wide powerband from 4000-5000 RPM. Personally I'll take a smaller, well-matched turbo, sacrifice some dyno queen headlining HP and enjoy a very broad powerband where I operate in daily driving from as low as 2000-2500 RPM and measurably less turbo lag and not just boost threshold.

TDIMeister said:

Edit - quoting again:
This is likely operating in surge. At 3000 RPM and 3 bar boost (PR=4) the mass flow is about 26 lb/min.

Click to expand...

are those calculated figures applicable to an engine with port work and aftermarket cams?
too bad every s300 I've seen on a 4cyl is doing pressure based smoke maps, could get some actual measured data in. :\

ETA: oh, another thing to stick on that question I posed, 'and a reasonable sized turbine?'
Easy to see low flow values from an engine being choked up by a little tiny 45mm turbine exducer.

ETA2: Kind of wonder how tough it'd be to get one of the places in taiwan to make up a large hub compressor wheel if surge were a problem. Takes the lowest angular velocity portion of the inducer and reduces its flow area, surge line goes left further than if the same dimension were just taken off the inducer OD

The s300 isn't crazy big,don't even need VGT/VNT just some extra fuel .In the video below I was spooling up an s357 with 68mm turbine wheel and a .82 A/R open housing.This was the secondary/high pressure turbo.Low pressure turbo was a gt45 with 72mm compressor inducer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF9osSnLk1o

TDIMeister said:

No need to be offended.

Quoting boost@RPM, once again, demonstrates a misunderstanding of "spool". You are conflating "boost threshold" (boost@RPM) and "turbo lag" which is purely a time in msec. or sec. to a given boost pressure on a load-step largely independent of RPM.

We don't have the benefit of the map of the actual S356V in question, but we do have an S300 57.1/84 mm comp wheel map that should be pretty close to make some comparisons. A smaller inducer will shift the surge and choke lines to the left slightly.

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/files/pdf/dimensional_reference/airwerks/S300GX.pdf

Sure, you can certainly get 400 HP (~44 lb/min with good lambda). You can certainly run the sucker to 52 PSI boost (PR=4.6). You can certainly get X bar boost at some low RPM to show how good it "spools". But none of those points will fall anywhere near where a 1.9 8V PD TDI's aspiration curves lie that's not either in surge or poor efficiency (I peg this criteria at 70% minimum and I also defy anyone that can show me an 8V PD not dropping off significantly in power over 5000 RPM). Go ahead, plot the dots and prove me wrong.

I'll start with one operating point: http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/gloss...=3&SFC=0.365&AFR=17.5&maxInjectorDutyCycle=85

Edit - quoting again:
This is likely operating in surge. At 3000 RPM and 3 bar boost (PR=4) the mass flow is about 26 lb/min. The surge line @ PR=4 is at 33 lb/min, but I grant that a smaller trim compressor wheel will have the surge line further to the left, but it's implausible to be >20% less.

At least for this particular map where the surge line @ PR=4 is at 33 lb/min, this coincides with the 4000 RPM operating point. So congratulations, you've got a ~1000 RPM-wide powerband from 4000-5000 RPM. Personally I'll take a smaller, well-matched turbo, sacrifice some dyno queen headlining HP and enjoy a very broad powerband where I operate in daily driving from as low as 2000-2500 RPM and measurably less turbo lag and not just boost threshold.

Click to expand...

S356V compressor wheel is same than S256 non vnt turbo, 56mm inducer and 76 exducer (80ETT). There is compressor map for that wheel.

S360V is with real S300 compressor wheel and housing. 85mm exducer and 88mm ETT.

But if this turbo is with 50mm inducer you can make lot of boost at low rpms. Sure S300V transient responce is still quite poor and turbo spool is not so fast in low gears.

I hope that DCautosport can open that turbo and measure both wheels. I dont know if this S300BV uses same 62/69.5mm turbine that i have seen in S300V series turbos. Turbine wheel looks smaller in those pics, it might be 56, 58 or 59mm version of that same turbine.

Good afternoon, I apologize for the absence ... but life did not let me come sooner ... I already received the turbo today ... and of course I will measure everything and take photos! However I am VERY SAD !! The turbo seems to me very damaged !!!! It has a lot of axial clearance !! and compressor housing (part aluminum is very scratched the compressor ...)
I made a little vídeo please see it... and see all damaged photos too...
this have repair?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV0Mg0713Dw




I took some photos with measurements too !!!

heavy...
















VNT functional, but it takes a little force to open and close. maybe it's the dry, old oil in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCq6_sZN1FA&feature=youtu.be


Does anyone know where I can find and buy spare parts for this turbo !?
Or are they 20kg of trash !?

Measures

https://ibb.co/gj0HZ7Measures
https://ibb.co/nEbkMn
https://ibb.co/dowPE7





https://ibb.co/mVg547
https://ibb.co/jcmYrn
https://ibb.co/mFVCHS

S356V I hope that Turbine housing ok, you might have change to adapt S200SX-E CHRA for that housing...

Yucca said:

S356V I hope that Turbine housing ok, you might have change to adapt S200SX-E CHRA for that housing...

Click to expand...

Yes, the exhaust turbine housing looks good to me !!!

Do not you know where I can find pieces for this chra?
If you have to switch to the CHRA of the S200SX-E specifications are the same ?? Is the compressor and turbine inducer and exducer measurements the same?
Thanks

S200sxe has 69.6/61.4 turbine and 52.2/70 or 57.2/76.2 compressor.

diffas said:

S200sxe has 69.6/61.4 turbine and 52.2/70 or 57.2/76.2 compressor.

Click to expand...

So the exhaust turbine is very similar !!! But the inlet compressor is very far from the measurements of this compressor!

Will it be okay to put a melett chra for example? or will the melett sell the whole parts, like a turbine shaft, shield fire, compressor, etc etc ... ???

What is the best option?


This is good for me???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schwitzer-...272032287650?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10
or
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GT3...shaft-wheel-for-turbocharger/32434790909.html


I find this precious CHRA... is real CHRA for S356v...
But unfortunately company dont have it in stock... :-(
And tell me only produce more when you order at least 20 pieces... :-(
The price is good, something like 200 USD... if someone is interested...
See it-> http://www.autopart95.net/product/html/?1743.html

Thank you.

That S200SX-E 52mm version makes 56lbs and so does S356V. So i think that is very good option for you.

I think Melett dont sell CHRA for that turbo...