www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI News/Tech

TDI News/Tech This Forum is for the posting of TDI news related items.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 14th, 2013, 10:15   #1
HeAvYfUeL
Veteran Member
 
HeAvYfUeL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gatineau,CAN
Fuel Economy: Fuelly signature --->
Default Are Diesels The Future For Luxury Sport Sedans? Audi Says Yes

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-audi-says-yes
__________________
2009 Jetta Wagon Comfortline DSG ESP build 03/09 Graphite Blue
History:
2006 Golf TDI GLS/1992 Jetta 2.slow GL
HeAvYfUeL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2013, 14:10   #2
Charlie271
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Iowa
Default

A no-brainer for me: I've had my 2014 Audi A6 TDI for a month now. Couldn't ask for a better car. It's comfortable but also maneuverable and quick.
So far I get 30-32 mpg in town and 40-44 on the highway. (a tailwind helps a lot!)
Charlie271 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2013, 14:15   #3
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

Yawn. Something like 70% of luxury cars sold in Europe are diesels. They're coming here because of FE mandates, no other reason. Not that it's a bad thing by any means, but this article is just another lazy re-hash of a press release, I'm sure.

Although the 3.0 TDI is a nice engine, it has nearly 100 HP less than the 3.0 supercharged gasoline engine that they call "equivalent." I'm sure torque is greater in the TDI, but HP wins races.

As an aside, I made a run to the supermarket in my Mercedes diesel. Still a pretty nice luxury car, and it's 20 years old.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 412K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 199K; 1997 Passat, 289K; '99.5 Golf, 262K; 2011 335d, 64K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 14K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI, 2015 Passat TDI SEL

Last edited by IndigoBlueWagon; August 18th, 2013 at 14:17.
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2013, 05:57   #4
mrspindlelegs
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Shelbyville, IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
Although the 3.0 TDI is a nice engine, it has nearly 100 HP less than the 3.0 supercharged gasoline engine that they call "equivalent." I'm sure torque is greater in the TDI, but HP wins races.
I seriously doubt anybody buys an Audi A6 to go racing.
__________________
Mr. Spindlelegs
2004 Golf GLS TDI 5-speed
KermaTDI 150 HP Kit using Series 7 Turbo, Ventectomy
Best: 54.24 MPG on 6-24-08. 872.8 MPT on 5-17-08.
Worst: 43.57 MPG due to faulty Coolant Temp Sensor.
mrspindlelegs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2013, 07:47   #5
wxman
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: East TN, USA
TDI(s): Other Diesel
Default

According to manufacturer's data (http://www.audiusa.com/models#), the 2014 Audi A6 TDI has a 5.5 second 0-60 mph rating while the 2014 A6 3.0 TFSI has a 5.3 second 0-60 mph rating.

The 0-60 mph performance for the 2014 A7 is 5.5 seconds for the TDI and 5.4 seconds for the 3.0 TFSI. Not very significant.

There's a 35% (A6) and 38% (A7) fuel mileage advantage for the TDI in the official EPA combined mileage and 21% and 24% advantage respectively on a mpg gasoline equivalent (mpgge) basis, even with EPA's acknowledgement that the 5-cycle test tends to significantly underestimates the real-world mileage of diesels.
wxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2013, 11:57   #6
chewy
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CA
TDI(s): None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
According to manufacturer's data (http://www.audiusa.com/models#), the 2014 Audi A6 TDI has a 5.5 second 0-60 mph rating while the 2014 A6 3.0 TFSI has a 5.3 second 0-60 mph rating.

The 0-60 mph performance for the 2014 A7 is 5.5 seconds for the TDI and 5.4 seconds for the 3.0 TFSI. Not very significant.

There's a 35% (A6) and 38% (A7) fuel mileage advantage for the TDI in the official EPA combined mileage and 21% and 24% advantage respectively on a mpg gasoline equivalent (mpgge) basis, even with EPA's acknowledgement that the 5-cycle test tends to significantly underestimates the real-world mileage of diesels.
The 3.0T is quite a bit stronger than the US 3.0 TDI, the difference will be more than just a tenth, especially as speeds pick up. The 1/4 mile trap speed gap is significant. Here are two comparable A8 tests. The TDI will do fine but the 3.0T is stronger. The bi-turbo 3.0 TDI would be closer to sports sedan promise.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...di_first_test/

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._l_first_test/
chewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2013, 12:22   #7
wxman
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: East TN, USA
TDI(s): Other Diesel
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy View Post
The 3.0T is quite a bit stronger than the US 3.0 TDI, the difference will be more than just a tenth, especially as speeds pick up. The 1/4 mile trap speed gap is significant. Here are two comparable A8 tests. The TDI will do fine but the 3.0T is stronger. The bi-turbo 3.0 TDI would be closer to sports sedan promise.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...di_first_test/

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._l_first_test/

Actually, the MT tests are closer between the A8L TDI and the A8L 3.0 TFSI than the Audi data (6.4 sec/5.5 sec, respectively, according to Audi, compared to 5.8 sec/5.3 sec, respectively, in the MT links).

There are currently no test data other than Audi for the A6 and A7 as far as I know.

Last edited by wxman; August 29th, 2013 at 12:32.
wxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2013, 12:58   #8
chewy
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CA
TDI(s): None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Actually, the MT tests are closer between the A8L TDI and the A8L 3.0 TFSI than the Audi data (6.4 sec/5.5 sec, respectively, according to Audi, compared to 5.8 sec/5.3 sec, respectively, in the MT links).

There are currently no test data other than Audi for the A6 and A7 as far as I know.
True, but you can see that the gap grows rapidly with speed.
chewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2013, 13:09   #9
DubFamily
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Swan Point, MD
Fuel Economy: It's still a diesel!
Default

Likely true; but if you are buying an A6 or A8 to run 1/4 miles in then you are doing it wrong.

For the purpose of actual day-to-day driving, the two engines will be nearly identical in performance, with a 35% plus advantage to the Diesel for economy.
__________________
-Jason G
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjclow View Post
Dub said it better.
2014 BMW 328d xDrive
Member SSBMWO
DubFamily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2013, 14:03   #10
chewy
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CA
TDI(s): None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubFamily View Post
Likely true; but if you are buying an A6 or A8 to run 1/4 miles in then you are doing it wrong.

For the purpose of actual day-to-day driving, the two engines will be nearly identical in performance, with a 35% plus advantage to the Diesel for economy.
Both are more than adequate I would assume but at the A8's price I would just upgrade to the V8 and embarrass almost any challenger. The A8 V8/S8 and W12 are pretty great at the quarter mile but MB just came out with the new S class with quite a bit of power in the base trim and we are talking about flagship sedans. But you are right most of them are driven pretty sedately.
chewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2013, 14:45   #11
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

Cars are way more powerful than they need to be in this market. In Europe Audi has a 2.0L TDI A8. And BMW has a 2.0L diesel 5-series. Both are more than quick enough for US driving, but they probably wouldn't sell here.

I spend a lot of time these days driving my Passat: with a mild tune it's probably making 100 HP. And I rarely have to floor it. My Mercedes has 119 HP in a heavier car, and it's plenty quick enough to stay out of trouble, although no one would call it fast.

Fact is, most drivers would be terrified to be in their cars when driven anywhere near their limits. By and large we're very gentle drivers.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 412K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 199K; 1997 Passat, 289K; '99.5 Golf, 262K; 2011 335d, 64K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 14K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2013, 12:35   #12
chewy
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CA
TDI(s): None
Default

Here is another preview of A6/A7 TDIs with some good info.

"Audi has fitted the U.S. car with a slightly smaller compressor than the comparable European model to tweak the power curve, sacrificing autobahn power on the top end for low-end responsiveness."

I would have to agree with their final assessment though as I can see how luxury diesels make sense in Europe where fuel is double the price but in the US fuel is cheap enough (especially for those purchasing 60-70k price bracket) to complicate things.

"We like diesels. We like the big torque and the excellent real-world fuel economy. But the notion that anyone is buying a $60,000 sedan with a heavy environmental conscience or a pragmatic economic analysis is a stretch. Performance sells cars in this price range. Civilized and torquey as it is, the TDI engine doesn’t have the immediacy of the gas-fueled supercharged V-6, an engine that sets an industry standard for its instant throttle response, supreme linearity, and excellent power delivery. Paying more money for fewer thrills doesn’t make much sense here."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review
chewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More Diesels for the Future gumaku1 General Automotive 0 May 23rd, 2011 10:20
Japanese Diesels in the Future? matt1 General Automotive 22 October 12th, 2006 08:47
Future Diesels MAW Non VW Group Diesels 4 September 13th, 2005 05:29
Future diesels in the US Willy den CGI Non VW Group Diesels 0 July 29th, 2003 06:44


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2020, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.16363 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 112.82 Kb. compressed to 95.64 Kb. by saving 17.18 Kb. (15.22%)]