Alh 10mm vs 11mm ip

Kerma_tuned

Active member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Location
Edmonton,Ab Canada
TDI
2002 jetta tdi alh
Right now im sitting at my most efficient peak boost(25psi) for my turbo(vnt17plus[17/52])

I'm still running the stock 10mm injection pump and it puts out a little bit of smoke but doesn't cloud out the sun or anything. So from my understanding there is more fuel than what can be burnt so will a 11mm injection pump bump my numbers on a dyno sheet,or make them more consistent?

Looking to educate myself a little so the more detail the better. Thanks!
 

Yourbuddysatin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2013 Jetta tdi
An 11mm pump will be more efficient than the 10. The more fuel you try to push thru the stock 10mm the hotter it gets. The 11mm is a better choice just for the cooler fueling. There is a lot more room for power with an 11mm also.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
"I have an excess of fuel, will more fuel make more power?"

probably a little, but you're going to learn why little vane turbos don't like high EGTs
buy bigger nozzles first, they're cheaper than an 11mm pump
 

Kerma_tuned

Active member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Location
Edmonton,Ab Canada
TDI
2002 jetta tdi alh
"I have an excess of fuel, will more fuel make more power?"

probably a little, but you're going to learn why little vane turbos don't like high EGTs
buy bigger nozzles first, they're cheaper than an 11mm pump
I have race 520's set up? i just don't know what pressure difference there is, if one or the other atomizes better or has better fueling through the rpm range. I'm aware that more fuel while there is already unburned fuel won't do anything but greatly decrease efficiency and give minuscule power increases at most, thanks
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
The 11mm pump is supposed to have a higher line pressure, that's why I run one with my 1019s and an S7 turbo

Has anyone looked into adding a fuel cooler like the 02 autos have? It's on the passenger side after the front frame rails open up.

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eddieleephd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
The 11mm pump is an upgrade, however, you would get more benefit from a lift pump for the expense.
Both the 10 mm and 11 mm pumps are working harder than they could. They are designed to pull the fuel from the tank and inject it into the cylinder. Both parts of this requires energy, simply reducing the needed energy for the pump to draw the fuel from the tank slowed it to push more full through the nozzles.

Plus it cools your pump more.
 
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WildChild80

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Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
The 11mm pump is an upgrade, however, you would get more benefit from a lift pump for the expense.
Both the 10 mm and 11 mm pumps are working harder than they could. They are designed to pull the fuel from the tank and inject it into the cylinder. Both parts of this requires energy, simply reducing the needed energy for the pump to draw the fuel from the tank slowed it to push more full through the nozzles.

Plus it cools your pump more.
I don't completely agree, the higher the pressure, the finer the mist and so on...and I buy used pumps super cheap and it's hit or miss, I've been mostly lucky...and probably easier to install a lift pump, it's on my to do list.

Yes, I hate messing with the timing belt and static timing

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eddieleephd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
I don't completely agree, the higher the pressure, the finer the mist and so on...and I buy used pumps super cheap and it's hit or miss, I've been mostly lucky...and probably easier to install a lift pump, it's on my to do list.

Yes, I hate messing with the timing belt and static timing

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I definitely agree that the benefits of the IP are a finer mist and more fuel.
I picked up a URO lift pump, from Carid if I remember correctly, for $80.

So my statement was cost benefit for all of the energy involved not that the IP doesn't increase the amount and spray pattern injected.

I run an 11mm pump, of course my unicorn began life as an automatic and my lift pump was installed because the draw tube went during the accident.

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red16vdub

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Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Location
(617) City of CHAMPIONS
TDI
03 JSW 5spd
The 11mm pump is supposed to have a higher line pressure, that's why I run one with my 1019s and an S7 turbo

Has anyone looked into adding a fuel cooler like the 02 autos have? It's on the passenger side after the front frame rails open up.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


All mk4 Alh/Pd automatic tranny tdi’s, came from the factory with fuel coolers.


Bajan
 

eddieleephd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
Whats lift pump works with alh's? Any how too's for an install?
The BEW lift pump is used for the ALH. Some of the higher power TDI's have to have one to supply more fuel. Generally I see them for $200, however, I found mine for less than a hundred.
Need to run a circuit back to the tank and power it off the 109, or similarly powered relay.


Lift Pump
https://www.idparts.com/in-tank-lift-pump-a5-brmcbea-cjaa-p-1976.html

Wiring with plug
https://www.idparts.com/pd-in-tank-lift-pump-install-kit-p-911.html

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WildChild80

Veteran Member
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May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I definitely agree that the benefits of the IP are a finer mist and more fuel.
I picked up a URO lift pump, from Carid if I remember correctly, for $80.

So my statement was cost benefit for all of the energy involved not that the IP doesn't increase the amount and spray pattern injected.

I run an 11mm pump, of course my unicorn began life as an automatic and my lift pump was installed because the draw tube went during the accident.

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk
At the pull a parts, I've never paid more than 40 bux for a pump...I would love to buy a new pump some day but they're just obnoxiously expensive, maybe rebuilds of all the pumps I've acquired.

80 bux is a great price...where did you source the plug for the pump?

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eddieleephd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
I swapped into a 1.8t so the wires and plug were already there. I linked the install kit above at IDparts, basic plug really easy to find at salvage yard.
I find what I needed and then search for the best price on the item. FCP Euro and Carid, are a couple I find good deals at. Metalman, Cascade, fixmyvw, and IDparts are all competent and get a lot of my business, however, if I can find the same part for a fraction of the cost I will. Especially when I save $100+ on a single part by URO. Gotta search though, and always look at shipping and when it arrives. ID, and the others are quicker, usually much quicker, and more knowledgeable about the parts needed. They usually have extremely competitive pricing, just that one occasion really.
OEM:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-electric-fuel-pump-a3-vag-1k0919050ab

URO:
https://www.amazon.com/URO-Parts-1J0919050-Fuel-Assembly/dp/B01EIUN4CS

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p0wer

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May 21, 2009
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
TDI
Golf 3 -94 1Z 377hp, Golf 3 Cabrio 4-Motion 1.8T 620hp, Golf 3 Syncro 2.9 VR6 HX52, Bora AJM 4-Motion 2260vk +120% Firad, Passat 3B Syncro AFN 2260vk
I wouln't keep as a truth without measured facts, that 11mm pump would make that much better effeciency compared to 10mm especially with this low power. Truth can be even opposite since 11mm IP takes more power and only heats fuel more. I would believe it if this has really been measured and prooved on dyno with AFR/EGT logs, but I doubt that there would be ANY positive difference. 10mm pump is good even up to 300hp and over. If you keep below this, it will be more or less only waste of money and unavailing work from my experience.
 
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Kerma_tuned

Active member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Location
Edmonton,Ab Canada
TDI
2002 jetta tdi alh
Also ive had issues with my car ar WOT in the lower rpms.
Ill put the pedal to the metal at say 1800rpm in 1st or 2nd and my car will bog down and sound like its stalling, ill take my foot off, it belches out a big cloud of black smoke and recovers. Doesnt do this all the time but its annoying when i lose to a civic over this, can anyone give me some insight into this? Am i pushing the 10mm too hard?
 
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Kerma_tuned

Active member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Location
Edmonton,Ab Canada
TDI
2002 jetta tdi alh
I wouln't keep as a truth without measured facts, that 11mm pump would make that much better effeciency compared to 10mm especially with this low power. Truth can be even opposite since 11mm IP takes more power and only heats fuel more. I would believe it if this has really been measured and prooved on dyno with AFR/EGT logs, but I doubt that there would be ANY positive difference. 10mm pump is good even up to 300hp and over. If you keep below this, it will be more or less only waste of money and unavailing work from my experience.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=314711]
 
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MAXRPM

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2008
Location
US
TDI
00 Jetta and 99.5 Golf, 2015 Passat TDI,BMW 2
I would also like to see a 10mm pump and 300hp? fact or fiction?
 

Markus L

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Feb 12, 2015
Location
Finland
TDI
Caddy (14D) 1.9TDI 2-stage 400+bhp, Passat 3BG 4motion AVF
300bhp could be possible maybe with min 5x0.32mm nozzles and turbo(s) that is working with decent overall efficiency at max power. So not some tiny 2260.

To OP's original question: When I got GTB1756VK in AHF I dynoed 15 bhp more just swapping the 10mm to 11mm. Power range was 200-240bhp. It already smoked kind of much with 10mm and with 11mm like tractor pullers. Lambda was bit under 1 with 11mm. I don't remember EGT but probably more than now with over 400 bhp and same pump.
 

Tero P

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Location
Finland
TDI
Golf MK4 Estate ASZ 379hp, Passat B5.5 Estate 4motion AVF 365hp
Also ive had issues with my car ar WOT in the lower rpms.
Ill put the pedal to the metal at say 1800rpm in 1st or 2nd and my car will bog down and sound like its stalling, ill take my foot off, it belches out a big cloud of black smoke and recovers. Doesnt do this all the time but its annoying when i lose to a civic over this, can anyone give me some insight into this? Am i pushing the 10mm too hard?
Too much EMP...
 

MAXRPM

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2008
Location
US
TDI
00 Jetta and 99.5 Golf, 2015 Passat TDI,BMW 2
fact then, here in the USA we barely touch 300 with 11 and 12 mm pumps, you guys over the pond mess more with diesels and get them up high on HP/TQ very nice, I am going to dyno my golf to see where is it at now 2260vk and after 2260vklr, as of now I'm running RC7 with .013 nozzles and 12mm pump I got all air supporting mods going too as well.
 
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p0wer

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Jyvaskyla, Finland
TDI
Golf 3 -94 1Z 377hp, Golf 3 Cabrio 4-Motion 1.8T 620hp, Golf 3 Syncro 2.9 VR6 HX52, Bora AJM 4-Motion 2260vk +120% Firad, Passat 3B Syncro AFN 2260vk
I’d like to see an example of an alh with 300+hp on a 10mm.
Tero was quicker, there was one there on the video and it's not only one here. It's all about good tune(r) and well functioning entity.
 
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WildChild80

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Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I wish we had better tuning support on this side. It's just so expensive to mod these cars then another 350 to 500 for a tune and the car never hits the dyno, you never meet anyone...just tell me what you have and here's a map...no fine tuning or curve smoothing or nothing...

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