Thinking of swapping the engine in my 2005 TDI Wagon (MK-IV) with a 2005 Passat TDI

manics01

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Location
McLean, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon TDI
Hello, everybody.
I'm a newbie, and after some searches of the threads around I decided to just post it and ask for insight from the professionals...

If I have 2005 MK-IV TDI automatic wagon, would it be possible to swap my engine with a 2005 Passat TDI engine? How difficult would it be in terms of like, would I need to swap the ECUs and the engine harnesses, how about the Tiptronic transmissions?

I thought that rather than spending thousands on engine upgrades like bigger turbos, chip, etc. I'd rather swap in a more powerful engine ...

I know that 2005 Passat TDIs have the B.S. problem ... With the engine out, how difficult is it to upgrade the chain driven pump with the VW upgrade kit? By the way, are those kits readily available on the market and how expensive are they? I'm just trying to figure what would be my final cost for the extra 40 horses under the hood.

Thanks everyone!
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Since the TDI 101 Forum gets far more viewers, I'd post the question over there! This forum is primarily for those putting a TDI engine in a vehicle other than one that come out with a TDI.

Just guessing, without doing any research, I'd say your engine "swap" would be rather straight forward!
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Why on Earth would you want to spend all the time and effort to install a 100hp engine in place of a 136hp one?

Besides, much of the 'stuff' won't swap over anyways. Much easier to just upgrade the BHW engine, be done with it, and be 100% chainless forever (something you cannot do on the BEW). :)

Or are you wanting to swap a BHW into your Jetta? In which case, you'd again be pretty much screwed since so little is the same. One of the reasons the BHW makes the power it does is from its bigger turbo, which would not even allow for a mounting spot in the transverse engine cars.

You can build a low-compression 2.0L BEW engine if you want. It will take some money, getting BHW pistons at $390 apiece, boring the block out for the larger bore, and probably having to tweak the fuel and air system to work best, but you could certainly do so.

In the end, I think software alone would be a better all around bet for most folks.
 
Last edited:

manics01

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Location
McLean, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon TDI
engine swap

I actually want to put a 136 HP engine from Passat into my Jetta Wagon 2005 tdi that has a 100 HP only. I did notice that engines are positioned differently and the mounts are probably different. But I'm still interested if anyone has ever done it. I believe 136HP engines are used in Boras in Europe so they did fit it in somehow, right?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The BHW is North American B5 only. However, you could use the block BUT you would need to find a suitable oil pan as the front sealing flange is shaped differently because of the balance shaft drive. Can't use the BHW's oil pan, since it does not have the same mounting on the bellhouse. So you would need to find a transverse engine that uses a balance shaft module to donate its oil pan. The very late 2.0L gas engines (BEV maybe?) is such an animal, that might work.

Then you would need to deal with the ancilliaries that are different. The BHW does not use the same type of EGR system or turbocharger as the BEW, and the plumbing is totally different.

You could certainly bolt the BEW's manifolds and such on, but with the smaller turbo and different software you probably would only get ~115hp instead of 136...

Or you could just get a software upgrade to your BEW, and get ~120hp without touching a wrench. ;)
 

manics01

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Location
McLean, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon TDI
TDI Engine SWAP

Thanks a bunch for the insight! So, changing the block, getting the oil pan from another donor and keeping everything that goes on top stock from my own engine would give me about 115 HP vs 100 HP now. HMMM ... And I'd still need the B.S. upgrade right?

So the best way to go about it is still a software upgrade, injectors and a bigger turbo ... plus following the above logic, boring the head for another 100 cc might be cheaper than changing the heads and finding that special oil pan, and should give me the same extra 10-15 HP, maybe ...

Do you know if the newer 1.4 TSI engine is mounted the same way as the 1.9 TDI in the Jetta?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Listen, I assume your car is stock right now, correct? Why not get in touch with one of the tuner vendors here (I prefer Rocketchip, but that is just my opinion) and get the software bumped up a bit and see how you like it? Jeff, the Rocketchip fellow, actually owns or has owned a BEW/automatic car, I'm sure he has a good deal of experience with what makes it faster. You'd be surprised what that alone will do.

Then if you want more, come back and revive this thread. But until you experience what RC can do for you, you are getting ahead of yourself.

RC1 literally transformed my Passat... it makes the V6 version of the same car feel gutless in comparison now.
 

manics01

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Location
McLean, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon TDI
swap

Thanks for your insight on this! I'm working on my suspension and getting it lifted once i;m done with that I'll contact the Rocketchip guy!
 

manics01

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Location
McLean, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon TDI
Swap

Do you know if anyone has ever retrofitted a w8 4motion Passat with a TDI to retain all those goodies that come along with a w8 (AWD and Climatronic :)

Apart from recoding the ECU and probably swaping the engine harness and everything from on top the engine, would it be possible to retain the same transmission?

Also, would a US BHW do the job or should a EU 4-motion dedicated TDI coming with the transmission be required.

I've driven for close to 3 years on my Jetta TDI and just recently started doing some mods on it and am contemplating to upgrade the engine. Trying to add the Climatronic, upgrading to the FIS cluster, autodim rear view mirror are just starting to mount in terms of $$$. All these mods would run into thousands. Instead, it might be a better idea to just find a 2003 or 2004 W8 Passat Wagon for under $8K and retrofit it with an appropriate TDI engine and that will run me probably close or little over to what I would get for my 2005 Jetta Wagon TDI

oilhammer said:
Listen, I assume your car is stock right now, correct? Why not get in touch with one of the tuner vendors here (I prefer Rocketchip, but that is just my opinion) and get the software bumped up a bit and see how you like it? Jeff, the Rocketchip fellow, actually owns or has owned a BEW/automatic car, I'm sure he has a good deal of experience with what makes it faster. You'd be surprised what that alone will do.

Then if you want more, come back and revive this thread. But until you experience what RC can do for you, you are getting ahead of yourself.

RC1 literally transformed my Passat... it makes the V6 version of the same car feel gutless in comparison now.
 

vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
manics01 said:
I actually want to put a 136 HP engine from Passat into my Jetta Wagon 2005 tdi that has a 100 HP only. I did notice that engines are positioned differently and the mounts are probably different. But I'm still interested if anyone has ever done it. I believe 136HP engines are used in Boras in Europe so they did fit it in somehow, right?
An upgraded turbo and a tune would get you 160-170hp with stock injectors so this seems a bit rediculous for what you'd gain. With upgraded injectors the stock BEW longblock still seems to be pretty reliable in the ~200hp range. If you wanted to drop in another engine with better internals and such a European PD130 or PD150 engine would be much more suitable.

manics01 said:
Do you know if anyone has ever retrofitted a w8 4motion Passat with a TDI to retain all those goodies that come along with a w8 (AWD and Climatronic :)
This sounds like it's possibly the biggest nightmare I've ever heard of :(

Even if you had the correct engine harness I have my doubts that the diesel ECU would be compatible with the other modules in the car.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
vwmikel said:
An upgraded turbo and a tune would get you 160-170hp with stock injectors so this seems a bit rediculous for what you'd gain. With upgraded injectors the stock BEW longblock still seems to be pretty reliable in the ~200hp range. If you wanted to drop in another engine with better internals and such a European PD130 or PD150 engine would be much more suitable.



This sounds like it's possibly the biggest nightmare I've ever heard of :(

Even if you had the correct engine harness I have my doubts that the diesel ECU would be compatible with the other modules in the car.
Agreed.
 

manics01

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Location
McLean, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon TDI
Swap

Thanks guys! I saw a thread of a guy trying to do that (TDI in a W8) and apparently a number of pros here were optimistic on the swap confirming same mounting configuration and even same standard drivetrain ratios as AUDIs but then the thread got abandoned.

There is also a thread with a V6 passat getting an EURO 2.5 V6 TDI. Well, my conversion should be easier since it already has the 4-motion assembly in place and if the drivetrain ratios are the same there might be even some luck in retaining original transmission...

A 2004 Passat Wagon w8 with mileage over 70K could be sourced at around $6-7K, putting in another $7K for an euro engine complete with transmission, harness and ECU would get it in the range of $14 K. Heck, even with another $6K it is still an attractive proposition. For $14K to $20K to have a 4-motion tdi full with power seats, Climatronic, Xenons, rear auto dim mirror, folding mirrors, FIS cluster, aluminum roof rails, upgraded brakes and a suspension designed for W8 that will automatically have it lifted, and so on and so on ... ? To have even a portion of all that on a standard 2005 B5.5 would take someone close to $25K and there will still be no AWD.

The engine harness and the ECU would come with the donor engine and everything else would be recode-able through VAG-COM. I'm in MD and the swap shouldn't be a legal/registration/emission hassle. I'm so tempted ... At the same time, if it could be done to a w8 with Audi chassis, it could certainly be done to an Allroad, and that is even a more enciting proposition, hmmm. I probably should get in touch with that member that has done the V6 swap to see how it all worked out.
 

Pat Dolan

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2002
Location
Martensville, SK
TDI
2003 A4 Variant, 2015 Q7
manics01:

I admire your enthusiasm and optimism, but I suspect you are a little short on experience - just a guess.

What you are proposing is about the PhD level of engine swaps. I think you shoud complete an undergraduate degree and do a bunch more research before trying to write your thesis.

Now, IF you still want to go in that direction: you said the magic word (to me): ALLROAD. The way to do it is to buy a complete car here, and also buy a complete donor car in Europe that came with the 2.5 V6. Take EVERYTHING from the donor and ship it here. You might want to be on hand when it is disassembled to get a feel for where things are. It would be nice to get a copy of ETKA (the VW worldwide parts reference) but, since it is proprietary........and then use everything that is different between the countries/models/gas-to-diesel otherwise identical cars.

The same thing would work with a W8 wagon: buy one over here and a TDI AWD car over there and let the craziness begin.

There is a member here who did a Passat wagon conversion to TDI/4 motion, and you should see what went into the detail! For a VERY experienced technician, I think it was a good year's work.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Actually, I think the Passat in question that got the V6 TDI went "under the knife" on a Friday night as a gas 4Mo car, and rumbled to life Sunday night as a TDI...

BUT, it had a lot of good people working on it, and a ton of preparation and parts on hand.

MOGolf could explain better.
 

manics01

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Location
McLean, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon TDI
Engine SWAPs

Yepp, I've seen that thread and read carefully through it all and I realize that it won't be upto my technical skills to handle all that work. But I'm not implying that I want to try to do it on myself. I'd rather higher a PhD to do that :). I was thinking that a swap would be handled professionally by trusted mechanics. Buying an entire TDI car in Europe and shipping it over is not a problem. It will clear the customs as long as the duties are paid. It should be imported as a parts car though. There is a company in Baltimore that is specialized in importing non-US exotic cars and reworking them and legalizing them and registering etc. I believe they will be able to import the car for parts purposes only. I know I researched this issue when enthusiastic about importing an Evolution II 16v-er but the $19-21K quote from that company chilled my spirits. Most of that bill was documentation fees and retrofitting. In this case none of that will be required. B5.5 TDIs in good or salvage shape feasible for the transplant are not that expensive and if lucky one might get one with the MFD navi and the Recaro interior :) Retrofitting an existent US B5.5 diesel might be even more fesible from emmissions/registration persective.

As for the difficulty, if I remember correctly sorting out all the harness issues was probably a pia because the US car was an old pre-CAN bus car wheres the donor car had a CAN bus wiring. If two cars are equipped with CAN-bus wiring everything that is needed is only the engine harness and re-programming of the ECU. Not sure if the new ECU would be even needed, but you're right, I have to complete the undergraduate degree prior to taking on these postulates :) Also, if the donor car has all the goodies like FIS, power seats, folding mirrors, self-dim mirror, Climatronic, etc. and the US car does not have them as most of the the standard US B5.5 diesels did not, then yes the entire interior harness will have to be swapped as well. But that is exactly why I'm considering a W8 passat that has EVERYTHING in it and a CAN bus that allows for reprogramming and recoding of everything. For instance, w8 passat FIS clusters from 2004 (later version) can be reprogrammed for TDIs (TDI gauge faces will be required though :) "All" I'll be needing will be a Passat 4-motion Euro engine, the engine harness, possibly transmission and drivetrain. If I remember correctly, in the pics of the swap we've mentioned, Eric has dismantled the entire car completely including stripping the entire interior which would be needed if you're swapping interiors too and/or switching the car to a CAN-bus, again not sure though since I cannot find the details on that swap. I'm trying to contact that brave hero who's done it already for some insight. We'll see ...




Pat Dolan said:
manics01:

I admire your enthusiasm and optimism, but I suspect you are a little short on experience - just a guess.

What you are proposing is about the PhD level of engine swaps. I think you shoud complete an undergraduate degree and do a bunch more research before trying to write your thesis.

Now, IF you still want to go in that direction: you said the magic word (to me): ALLROAD. The way to do it is to buy a complete car here, and also buy a complete donor car in Europe that came with the 2.5 V6. Take EVERYTHING from the donor and ship it here. You might want to be on hand when it is disassembled to get a feel for where things are. It would be nice to get a copy of ETKA (the VW worldwide parts reference) but, since it is proprietary........and then use everything that is different between the countries/models/gas-to-diesel otherwise identical cars.

The same thing would work with a W8 wagon: buy one over here and a TDI AWD car over there and let the craziness begin.

There is a member here who did a Passat wagon conversion to TDI/4 motion, and you should see what went into the detail! For a VERY experienced technician, I think it was a good year's work.
 

vwtdi04

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2004
Location
Ontario/Miss
TDI
Golf
If you have around $30000+ with some change ready to spend, then you shouldn't have issues, there was one guy who did and documented entire swap got passat 2.8 v6 quattro and converted to 2.5 tdi V6 quattro, he imported entire drivetrain, harness, suspension, tranny, complete car without the body and seats, the cost of importing and getting all parts not 100% sure was correct but in high $15-20k just for donor parts,
 

timmyc4

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Location
NW Wisconsin
TDI
2013 Passat, 2006 Jetta w/Malone, 97 Passat Sedan TDI, 88 Jetta N/A
Finally, someone that has his head on straight !
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
I am actually considering the same swap myself but into my 05' golf....I wouldn't consider this a "phd" level swap at all...delete the "bs" module and use and alh oil pan oil pump ...the bew accessories brackets fuel lines turbo intake etc....add a custom tune and you're all set! EDIT...I see now what the "PHD" swap was all about...yeah...stay away from that level of swap until you have some serious notches in yer' belt my friend!!.... but again the BHW into a transverse MKIV would not be too bad a task and it would badass to boot!!
 
Last edited:

jjordan11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Location
Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
I see the original date of the OP's post, I think that if someone actually wanted to do this swap and retain the gear driven balance shaft they could probably use the CBEA oil pan for a transverse application. Myself, I would just do the block boring and change out the pistons and cylinder head. If I were to stumble across a BHW for cheap, I would reserve it for a longitudinal application.
 

otty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Location
Revelstoke, BC
TDI
2003 Passat W8=>TDI swap, 4Motion Wagon, PD130(AVF) 6Speed Manual, 2006 Jetta MKIV PD(BEW) Wagon 5Speed Manual
I have a W8 with a PD130 (Euro engine code AVF and 6 speed manual tranny from the Euro car) swap.

It cost me $15000. I didn't do the swap but I think it took the swapper about 2 weeks of work. 99% of everything works. One set of headlights don't work ( a relay required I am trying to track down), cruise control doesn't work (but can likely be fixed) and there is an issue with the ABS controller that is unrelated to the swap.

Definitely possible but far more complicated wiring than a non-W8 methinks.
 
Top