EGR delete vs tune out

I'm sure this has been asked before. I tried searching but these particular key words bring a bazillion results.

I have a new to me 02 golf 5spd. I know general practice is to block the EGR and eithe run with a CEL, or get a tune to clear the CEL.

My question is, if I just get a tune (RC if he ever gets back to me, or Kerma) doesn't that basically turn the EGR off? Negating the need to physically remove it from the car?

I'm not worried about power (have a 400+hp Subaru for that). Looking for better MPGs and engine longevity. Only real mods planned are the tune and sprint 520s.

Thanks in advance.

Keeping the EGR valve (and tuning it out) means you retain the anti-shudder valve, for a smooth and complete shutoff of the engine.

This has always confused me. Is a chip tune EGR delete the same as an adaptation to 33768 using an OBDII device?
Being more technical than mechanical, I'd love to know what exact data is modified with a given tune. I bought an RC-2 1.5 years ago. When I look at the EGR value it is 33768.
Do the chip tuners just change that value, or do they modify the EGR at a different level?

Drnknmnky13 said:

My question is, if I just get a tune (RC if he ever gets back to me, or Kerma) doesn't that basically turn the EGR off? Negating the need to physically remove it from the car?

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Yes... yes... a thousand times yes.

If you chose to remove the hardware, or block the hardware, or whatever... it's for cosmetic reasons only... or perhaps because the cooler is leaking etc.

Otherwise, if the tuner tunes it out it's out.

Vince Waldon said:

Yes... yes... a thousand times yes.
If you chose to remove the hardware, or block the hardware, or whatever... it's for cosmetic reasons only... or perhaps because the cooler is leaking etc.
Otherwise, if the tuner tunes it out it's out.

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That's what I was thinking. Why do extra work when I'm going to get it tuned anyway.

I could see bypassing the cooler with the coolant lines. If I'm worried about leaking. But removing the EGR itself seems unnecessary.

All kidding aside, I think folks often do it to "de-clutter" the engine compartment... and I can see that approach having some merit... every time I skin my knuckles against the EGR cooler.

There's also a camp that would say the valve is a restriction in the intake airflow, hence the market for "race pipes".

As I often say... it's all good... your car your rules.

BobnOH said:

This has always confused me. Is a chip tune EGR delete the same as an adaptation to 33768 using an OBDII device?
Being more technical than mechanical, I'd love to know what exact data is modified with a given tune. I bought an RC-2 1.5 years ago. When I look at the EGR value it is 33768.
Do the chip tuners just change that value, or do they modify the EGR at a different level?

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That adaptation only lowers the amount of flow, not eliminate it.
The ECU will see its still working, no tune.
It's also suppose to help with the intake clogging, not eliminate it. iIrc

One thing to consider, the tuners have some really nice dynamic EGR maps now. So if the hardware is still there, they can make use of it to help get the engine warmed up faster, mainly for cabin heat.

I don't care what anyone says, an ALH absolutely DOES take longer to get cabin heat with no EGR cooler present. I own one. And I've probably driven 1000+ ALH cars, many extensively. On repeatable occasions (meaning, same drive, same temps, same speeds, etc.).

Doesn't mean the EGR-cooler-less heat does not work, it just takes longer and it never really gets as "hot". I just put a new HVAC case and heater core in my Golf, thinking it would help. It didn't. Still takes longer. Even with a winterfront (and all my shields are present) and a good thermostat, my other ALH with all intact EGR cooler gets warmer faster.

That really is the only downside to removing it totally. ULSD and not driving like a granny means intake clogging is pretty much a non-issue. But the tuners' dynamic EGR maps really make the best all around package to me.

oilhammer said:

I don't care what anyone says, an ALH absolutely DOES take longer to get cabin heat with no EGR cooler present.

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LOL. I've wondered, because there seems to be wildly varying opinions on this. Some guys say it didn't matter at all, and others say it does. My EGR cooler is still intact, so I have no idea.

BobnOH said:

This has always confused me. Is a chip tune EGR delete the same as an adaptation to 33768 using an OBDII device?
Being more technical than mechanical, I'd love to know what exact data is modified with a given tune. I bought an RC-2 1.5 years ago. When I look at the EGR value it is 33768.
Do the chip tuners just change that value, or do they modify the EGR at a different level?

Click to expand...

It's modified at a different level. And depending on tuner, it may be done really well, to where it even passes readiness, or not. There are multiple maps involved.

Removing hot exhaust gases from the inlet manifold will definitely increase the amount of time it takes to heat a motor up.

Yes and no on the adaptation. Turning down the EGR will affect exhaust flow/turbo flow, not so much a problem on the VNT15 on the VEs, on PD it's a different story. I saw about a 0.7 PSI boost increase by blocking off my EGR without tuning on my personal car.

BobnOH said:

This has always confused me. Is a chip tune EGR delete the same as an adaptation to 33768 using an OBDII device?
Being more technical than mechanical, I'd love to know what exact data is modified with a given tune. I bought an RC-2 1.5 years ago. When I look at the EGR value it is 33768.
Do the chip tuners just change that value, or do they modify the EGR at a different level?

Click to expand...

Bob, the adapatation "method/approach" is more or less static, whereas on the tuner side they are able to adjust things such that the ECU ensures that the intended results actually happen. Adaptation, from all that I've read, doesn't really do anything: seems the ECU manages to pretty much undo anything that you do- there's lots of variables and the ECU will try and adjust other things to compensate- the ECU "knows best."

I thought the hot EGR fumes going through the EGR cooler heats the coolant faster.

oilhammer said:

I just put a new HVAC case and heater core in my Golf, thinking it would help. It didn't. Still takes longer. Even with a winterfront (and all my shields are present) and a good thermostat, my other ALH with all intact EGR cooler gets warmer faster.

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IS there a solution to this problem? not trying to freeze this winter

Car has heat, just takes a little longer to get there. Not like I am going to freeze to death. Winter doesn't bother me. Just wear another layer if need be.

My car took very slightly longer to warm up after egr/cooler delete. Note that it is a converted auto so it doesn’t have the coolant heater at the end of the head.

However, after insulating the panzer plate, sideskirts, and engine cover it warms up faster now than before. Still nothing like my 04 WJ V8.

I have the idparts winter fronts coming and have already slipped cardboard inside the grill so it does fine.


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Respectfully, how about neither and keep your nox emissions lower?

I recently did the EGR delete and EGR cooler delete, cleaned my intake and the car is running great. As expected my CEL is on, can someone direct me to a link for the instructions on getting this CEL to shut off. I have my own Vag-Com, but I'm still learning how to use it.

jooser5 said:

I recently did the EGR delete and EGR cooler delete, cleaned my intake and the car is running great. As expected my CEL is on, can someone direct me to a link for the instructions on getting this CEL to shut off. I have my own Vag-Com, but I'm still learning how to use it.

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You need to have the ECU "tuned". They simply write out that portion of the programming. While it is pretty common knowledge now, I would make sure that the tuner you choose knows to make certain your car has all its readiness monitors working and in place so that if the car should require an OBD test for license purposes, it will pass. Even if your area does not have such a requirement now, it may in the future OR you may sell the car to someone who lives in an area that does.

DavidMTroyer said:

Respectfully, how about neither and keep your nox emissions lower?

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My thoughts exactly. NOx emissions are a major component of smog and acid rain. And diesel engines produce a lot of NOx emissions.

One possible reason to remove the EGR components instead of just getting it tuned out is if you're doing other work as well. For example, I removed my EGR cooler, valve, and intake while upgrading to a bigger turbo. Putting the EGR stuff back is more work for nothing.

I'm going to hang onto the parts, because I've seen how much they cost if I ever had to buy them again. The only reason I could see myself putting them back is if our government brought in some kind of strict inspection system. Until then, they'll sit in a box because I saw no reason to put them back.

oilhammer said:

You need to have the ECU "tuned". They simply write out that portion of the programming. While it is pretty common knowledge now, I would make sure that the tuner you choose knows to make certain your car has all its readiness monitors working and in place so that if the car should require an OBD test for license purposes, it will pass. Even if your area does not have such a requirement now, it may in the future OR you may sell the car to someone who lives in an area that does.

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Thanks for the response, but I'm still unclear on where to find something that would walk me through a step by step process for performing an ECU "tuning". I see how to recalibrate the EGR in TDI facts section 7.h, but it doesn't specify that it is for an EGR delete.

jooser5 said:

Thanks for the response, but I'm still unclear on where to find something that would walk me through a step by step process for performing an ECU "tuning". I see how to recalibrate the EGR in TDI facts section 7.h, but it doesn't specify that it is for an EGR delete.

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What are your objectives?

EGR stuff pretty much requires the ECU to be reprogrammed (aka "tuned"). Unless you want to get into some sort of byte code programming (always on the verge of bricking your ECU) it's best left to the professionals (usually only a side feature of a performance tune package).

There is an adjustment - aka "adaptation" that one can do via VCDS- but it's mostly been shown to be of limited value: it was a rage after everyone's rage over clogged intakes and EGR valves in earlier times (poorer oils and higher sulfur fuels).

There just isn't any real reason to be deleting the EGR (any more). Get a good baseline- clean everything. Get a tune with dynamic EGR. Drive the car as it should/needs to be driven. Use modern oils (hard not to do). No need to look back.

UhOh said:

What are your objectives?

EGR stuff pretty much requires the ECU to be reprogrammed (aka "tuned"). Unless you want to get into some sort of byte code programming (always on the verge of bricking your ECU) it's best left to the professionals (usually only a side feature of a performance tune package).

There is an adjustment - aka "adaptation" that one can do via VCDS- but it's mostly been shown to be of limited value: it was a rage after everyone's rage over clogged intakes and EGR valves in earlier times (poorer oils and higher sulfur fuels).

There just isn't any real reason to be deleting the EGR (any more). Get a good baseline- clean everything. Get a tune with dynamic EGR. Drive the car as it should/needs to be driven. Use modern oils (hard not to do). No need to look back.

Click to expand...

My objective is only to get the CEL to shut off. I'm not after any high performance tuning or race ready modification. This is my drive back and forth to work car and rub it in all my coworkers faces about how good my mileage is car. I did the EGR delete before I read about the tuning of it to eliminate the clogging problem. So, all I want is for the CEL to go off so that my wife will stop bugging me. So with that said, please someone help...

jooser5 said:

My objective is only to get the CEL to shut off. I'm not after any high performance tuning or race ready modification. This is my drive back and forth to work car and rub it in all my coworkers faces about how good my mileage is car. I did the EGR delete before I read about the tuning of it to eliminate the clogging problem. So, all I want is for the CEL to go off so that my wife will stop bugging me. So with that said, please someone help...

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You need to purchase a tune from one of the reputable professional tuners....this is not something you can just do on your own.
While you are at it I would suggest also getting a stage 1 or 1.5 tune it will wake your car up for passing etc without compromising milage or longevity.
Phone or email them with your questions.

Some examples of popular tuners....

http://www.rocketchip.com/
https://malonetuning.com/ecu-tuning/audi-volkswagen/tdi/ve-tdi
http://www.kermatdi.com/chip-tuning-and-ecu-upgrades/

jooser5 said:

My objective is only to get the CEL to shut off.

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In that case, I think you have 2 main options:

1) Purchase a tune that works with the EGR delete.
2) Re-install the original EGR equipment, and make sure it works.

maxmoo said:

You need to purchase a tune from one of the reputable professional tuners....this is not something you can just do on your own.
While you are at it I would suggest also getting a stage 1 or 1.5 tune it will wake your car up for passing etc without compromising milage or longevity.
Phone or email them with your questions.

Some examples of popular tuners....

http://www.rocketchip.com/
https://malonetuning.com/ecu-tuning/audi-volkswagen/tdi/ve-tdi
http://www.kermatdi.com/chip-tuning-and-ecu-upgrades/

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Great, thanks. I just sent all three emails, now I wait until they open up after the 1st of the year. Closed for the holidays.

jooser5 said:

Great, thanks. I just sent all three emails, now I wait until they open up after the 1st of the year. Closed for the holidays.

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You'll need to determine how you're going to flash your ECU. Options are:

1) Send in your ECU (clunkiest);
2) Have a local shop do it (usually they'll be licensed dealers and can take care of getting the tune- most expensive);
3) On-line vendor facilitates the tune and you rent a flashing device from them (rental isn't that much, but you've got to deal with return shipping);
4) On-line vendor facilitates the tune and you BUY a flashing device from them (couple hundred bucks; perhaps on part with #2? for myself I wanted to be able to load different tunes).

Last two will require YOUR participation. Not a big deal, but there's a little added risk (if you do something stupid you could brick your ECU; probability is low, but the risk still exists).

I went with #4. I got TWO tunes: devices support multiple tunes (Flashzilla -Malone- supports two tunes). Only a few more $$s (price of an evening out?) to get the second tune on the flashing device. Able to test different tunes out w/o having to schedule with anyone else to do it.

I'm in a similar spot......I would like to have egr kit put back on and go with dynamic egr.
Any idea what it costs or hours of task to put egr valve and cooler back on the car? I talked to reputable mechanic today and he said it can be tricky with the turbo.

If I wanted to gout with 1.5 tune, is there additional hardware(costs) to accommodate the increase in performance? thanks, jeff