Stripping the Turn Ins

Anyone got the location in the documents that describe what has to be in the car when you return it?

I know the car has to make it under its own power... but beyond that do they spell out what equipment has to still be in the car?

Nothing. Nothing is spelled out beyond what you just stated in your post. The car must be driven into the turn-in location under "-its own 2.0L diesel engine power." Nothing else re: condition (this has been discussed endlessly, BTW) is specified in the settlement. Our youngest son has a '13 Jetta TDI that was lightly T-boned in July, but perfectly drivable, and he's going to collect the insurance money and drive it in for buyback as is.

Final settlement might have a more defined set of rules, like it must have seats, door panels, etc.

Question for the original poster : does whether you behave like a decent person depend on the small print, or do you have some sense of ethics of your own?

My approach : I'm treating this like I'm selling my car. The circumstances are a little unusual, that's all. I'm going to take care of it until then, try to keep it in good condition, and return it in the best condition I can. The car will end up fixed, and resold, and someone else will ultimately benefit from a decent car.

There is a bigger picture here, and that's to avoid unnecessary waste - which trashing a decent car certainly is.

Just because the small print doesn't say I can't, that doesn't mean that I'm going to behave like a ****.

I would think that if they are going to pay you for say a 2014 Jetta SEL they are probably going to want it back with all the parts they sold it to you with.
That's my though anyways.

Carphuntin_god said:

Anyone got the location in the documents that describe what has to be in the car when you return it?
I know the car has to make it under its own power... but beyond that do they spell out what equipment has to still be in the car?

Click to expand...

Curious...
When you say "Stripped", do you mean seriously stripped of doors, glass, seats, spare tire, non-critical power train components?

I was thinking that I would give some parts of my Passat to a needy Passat petrol owner. Specifically, the rubber mats, the trunk cargo mat/blocks, and the bag hook.

I was thinking since I have a full sized spare tire, that would be a waste to throw away. I wonder if I can sell it? Or give it away. It has a nice wheel and tire on it.

Tornado TDI said:

I would think that if they are going to pay you for say a 2014 Jetta SEL they are probably going to want it back with all the parts they sold it to you with.
That's my though anyways.

Click to expand...

What they want has nothing whatsoever to do with what is stated in the legal settlement. I think they were very careful to avoid the question of condition, since the goal of buyback is to get the affected cars off the road, not preserve them in Very Good Retail condition.
As I stated earlier, there has been extensive discussion of this topic, but as of this date (and what may appear in the final settlement is mere further speculation, all we have is THIS ONE), the only condition addressed is the car's drivability with its own power train.

I hadn't gone done the road of thinking full "strip"... hadn't thought of doors, windows,, etc.
But, I knew I'll pull my hitch and hitch wiring since they aren't stock, I started thinking what else could come off.
They can't spec factory/delivered wheels because that would screw anyone who bought aftermarket and didn't keep the originals. SO i could return the car with my old steelies and worn snows and keep the factory rims.
Again... they'd have to spell out this out... and I assumed it had to already be written out.
You know if they leave it defined only as driveable to the dealership...you will have people driving in a motor and frame while sitting on a milk crate in the cabin
This is a contractual deal between myself and a party who has admitted doing me wrong. The court will force them into an agreement that we and they have to honor. The agreement will have to spell out all the conditions of the buyback condition...or they could attempt to defraud us once again.

Let your personal ethics be your guide.

I asked this question a couple months ago and was met with some proponents to "ethical" stripping/downgrading the car, as well as some better-than-thou posters who thought they needed to be angels with turning in the buy-back. Bottom line, VW wasn't anywhere near ethical by selling us this car with the emission defeat device, so why should we need to be 100% ethical when it's bought back?
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=465544
I'm planning on buying a 2-3 year old Jetta S or SE and will be swapping/upgrading anything that is better from the TDI, including seats, wheels, etc. VW will still get a complete TDI with OEM parts from me upon buy-back, but it won't have all the same components.

that's why i avoid the ethics discussion here. We're not selling our cars to some little old granny who doesn't know how to spell things out in a deal.
if these cars are destined to be spiked and crushed... I also don't know if VW will care how they come in.

When you enter a VIN, it would be reasonable to expect the whole car be returned. (or suitable maintenance replacement of parts which failed)

of course, the details will be better known six months from now.

there may or may not be an impact from turning in partial cars.

meerschm said:

When you enter a VIN, it would be reasonable to expect the whole car be returned. (or suitable maintenance replacement of parts which failed)

of course, the details will be better known six months from now.

there may or may not be an impact from turning in partial cars.

Click to expand...

the details will actually be known two weeks from now

A person could probably get away with just about anything as long as the car runs and drives at turn-in, and has a clean title. Strip the doors, seats, glass, hood, trunk lid, quarter panels, stereo, throw on some cheap junkyard wheels and tires....you name it. As long as it satisfies the language in the settlement, they have to accept it. At least make it road worthy to avoid the POlice.

But does anyone really want to be "that guy"?

I think the car should go back with all of the parts and systems that were on it when you got it. But if some of them are not functioning properly, or at all, (such as air conditioning, for example) it is not required to fix them before turn in.

Rico567 said:

The car must be driven into the turn-in location under "-its own 2.0L diesel engine power."

Click to expand...

This may be picking nits, but there is no such requirement--the settlement agreements are completely silent about how the car makes its way to the turn-in location. The requirement is that it be able to move under its own power, but does not specify how it gets to the dealer.

meerschm said:

When you enter a VIN, it would be reasonable to expect the whole car be returned. (or suitable maintenance replacement of parts which failed)

of course, the details will be better known six months from now.

there may or may not be an impact from turning in partial cars.

Click to expand...

An awful lot of wouldas, couldas, and shouldas in this thread.....and there also "may or not be an impact" in 8,000 years, which is when our current warm cycle in the ice ages of the past 2.5 million years ends and the ice sheets return to cover a lot of the planet again. But we'll have to wait to see, just like we have to wait until October 18th to learn the final settlement on our cars– but I'm betting it's going to look just like what we've got now.

I think it would be entirely consistent with the intent of the current agreements (i.e., the ones that have been made public) to add a requirement that the cars turned in be substantially complete. Condition as such still doesn't matter, but if you've stripped the interior (for example) that wouldn't be acceptable. There's no such requirement now, and if it isn't in what's approved by the court in two weeks, there won't be, but I don't think that'd be at all inconsistent with what's already there.

When the time comes...I REALLY hope people try to pull this and report back in to tell us how it worked out for them. It should be good for some laughs.

Turn-in condition is based on September 2015 NADA "clean" trade-in value, across the board. Adding language like "substantially complete" which is completely open to interpretation is not going to fly.

I doubt there will be any changes to the final settlement at all.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^this.........September 2015 NADA "clean" trade-in value,

You could be right. However, I would be surprised if it isn't buried somewhere in the hundreds of pages of legalese that if you try to be clever and bring in a stripped out car with a milk crate for a seat...they can refuse to buy your car back (or significantly decrease your buyback amount).

One way or the other...it's going to be amusing. Either screwballs will get away with it and come here to post up pictures...or they'll come here whining when it doesn't go their way.

The settlement agreement was a negotiation where both sides had plenty of give-and-take. Volkswagen agreed to the initial settlement as-is. There was a public comment period which coincided with an opt-out date. That date has passed. You actually think anyone involved is going to set the clock back another 2-3 months to change this document? Not gonna happen.

Jimmy Coconuts said:

The settlement agreement was a negotiation where both sides had plenty of give-and-take. Volkswagen agreed to the initial settlement as-is. There was a public comment period which coincided with an opt-out date. That date has passed. You actually think anyone involved is going to set the clock back another 2-3 months to change this document? Not gonna happen.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where I suggested in my post that they'd go for a "do-over." Carry-on with your chop shop though...I'm sure you don't have anything to worry about.

bubbagumpshrimp said:

I'm not sure where I suggested in my post that they'd go for a "do-over." Carry-on with your chop shop though...I'm sure you don't have anything to worry about.

Click to expand...

My post wasn't referring to you, Mr. Sunshine.

bubbagumpshrimp said:

You could be right. However, I would be surprised if it isn't buried somewhere in the hundreds of pages of legalese that if you try to be clever and bring in a stripped out car with a milk crate for a seat...they can refuse to buy your car back (or significantly decrease your buyback amount).

One way or the other...it's going to be amusing. Either screwballs will get away with it and come here to post up pictures...or they'll come here whining when it doesn't go their way.

Click to expand...

If the condition statement wasn't in the CAS docs, it's not something in play. It's that simple. Yes there are hundreds of pages, but not a one indicates any condition or completeness other than moves under its own power. It can have 4 flat tires, alignment totally shot, and only be able to drive in circles because it's been wrapped so far around a tree, if it moves, it passes the operable definition.

So, motor start, check, moves forward, check, end of criteria.

I disapprove of removing components from the buy back cars on principle and would not do it but . . . since VWoA's goal is to report to EPA and DOJ that 85% of VW TDIs sold in the USA are either in compliance with the modified standard or scrapped it may not matter what condition they are in.

VW can report another VIN scrapped which will make them one more car closer to getting out from under the government.

I have thought alot about stripping some parts off my cars. I AM absolutely taking the floormats! And spare tire!!! But other than that, I am most likely going to leave it alone. Why? I don't know if it is worth my time and effort. What I mean is, is there really much of a market for a used hood and fenders.... used seats.... used trunk lid.... and any other easily removable part? Sure junkyards make good money off selling these things, but they have all the body shops calling them up looking for those parts, how am I supposed to sell those parts? Craigslist??? And how long do I have to have a pair of front fenders and a hood leaning up against the back of the house till someone does want them??? And what would I be able to get out of them, maybe a few hundred bucks ? I am not sure it is really worth the hassle.

I do think that if I wanted to, putting a ad on craigslist that for a little cash, Id be willing to swap my seats or rims for more basic seats or rims would be ok to do. After all this has been MY car for the last several years and I have not been obliged to keep it completely stock. In other words I might have ruined my wheels long ago and just bought steel wheels to replace, or didn't want leather seats and instead wanted cloth. Its totally a plausible explanation.

And really, if anyone wants to go forward with pulling parts off their cars, just wait till the buyback is officially going, and go to the dealer and meet with the buyback agents and discuss it with them. I very well might do that myself, if I have a appointment to bring it in on Nov 15th for example, I might go up to the dealer on the 13th or 14th and ask them specifically, if I bring in my car with no hood or trunklid or fenders or headlights and so on, will that matter. If they tell me point blank it won't then perhaps I will take a few things off. I have a GEN 1 car as it is that will likely go to the crusher anyways. Is it ethical..... ? I don't know. But if they just want it off the road to comply with the EPA, then what difference does it make? If they are willing to accept it back like that, I would likely be willing to give it to them like that. I just have to make sure its worth my time to take the parts off and be able to actually resell them in a timely manner.

I will say though, that I have already parked my 2013 jetta and no longer driving it, and only got about 800 miles left of driving on the 2012... I am still washing them and cleaning them and taking care of them as if they were keepers.

With 200,000+ TDIs being turned in...

And many of those getting' scrapped instead of fixed, the market for VW parts will be saturated. So sure, you can strip your TDI before turn in, but why?

Exactly Gyro... I started this thread... not planning to take a car down to the frame... but if the car's destined for the crusher and they aren't going to strip it before crush and sending it to the Chinese recycling yards... it makes sense to consider what's worth your while to to take off.
I read a whole article on this and if they are scrapping the cars without takedown...how much further eco impact there is from trashing cars that aren't near the end of their lifespan.